6 weeks - France, Switz, Italy, Greece, Turkey

[daisy]

I’ve been doing some extra research in the past few months with a great deal of help from GFE. I’ve updated my itinerary and would love to hear what you guys have to say and hear any advice you have to offer. Here is a little bit about me and my trip which may guide your suggestions:
I will be 18 by the summer and am a solo female traveller from Toronto. I am mainly interested in culture, food, history, scenery and nightlife, however I am open to anything else as well. Although I do plan of visiting most of the tourist must see places, I have more of an interest in discovering the best local kept secrets. I plan on staying in hostels and am traveling on a budget. O yah, I am also EXTREMELY excited and have been wanting to backpack across Europe since I was 8 years old!

Itinerary (open to any change)

Fly out of Toronto (early July)

(5 nights) Paris, France
(1 night) Geneva, Switzerland
(4 nights) Gimmelwald, Switzerland
(1 night) Zurich, Switzerland + day trip to Vaduz, Lichtenstein
(2 nights) Venice, Italy
(4 nights) Cinque Terre, Italy
(2 nights) Florence, Italy
(5 nights) Rome, Italy
(3 nights) Sorrento, Italy + daytrips to Naples, Pompei, Capri, Amalfi Coast
(4 nights) Athens, Greece
(3 nights) Santorini, Greece
(2 nights) Crete, Greece
(1 night) Ios, Greece
(1 night) Cappadoccia, Turkey
(1 night) Pamukkale, Turkey
(5 nights) Istanbul, Turkey

Fly out of Istanbul to Toronto (mid August)

Any hostel recommendations, must-see sights, and methods of transportation between the cities would be greatly appreciated!

I also have a few more direct questions:

Is it safe to leave my passport / important documents in a hostel locker or should I carry them with me at all times in a money belt?

What is the best way to travel from Paris to Geneva and from Rome to Athens?

How far is meteora from Athens / how to get there? and is it a must-see?

Are there any other cities which are worth spending a few nights at on the way from Paris to Geneva? Or are there any cities that are worth going out of the way to visit?

If anyone has gone handgliding in Interlaken is it worth the cost? If not are there any other extreme sports that may be cheaper but worth the try?

[Eagle]

daisy,

Your Itinerary looks reasonably well sorted, however you'll also need to allow for travel times between destinations. In some cases, the travel times will only be a few hours but in others you'll need to allow much longer.

As July is "peak season", you might consider pre-booking at least some of your accommodations as Europe will likely be crowded. A Paris Museum Pass would DEFINITELY be a good idea at that time of year (perhaps the two-day version).

Note that you'll need a C.T. Park Pass to hike the trails in the Cinque Terre (there WILL be people checking for these!). You can buy these at the train stations in the area.

I'll try to add more specific information on your questions later today (have to run an errand now).

Cheers!

[Eagle]

daisy,

A few more comments on some of the questions you listed.....

> Hostel recommendations: You might have a look at www.hihostels.com/dba/continent-Europe-EU.en.htm for information on HI Hostels. As they're all part of a chain, the facilities are fairly consistent from one location to another. There's also www.hostelworld.com/ but it's not a site I've used so can't offer any recommendations.

>Methods of transportation: in most cases, train (2nd class tickets) is the best method to get from one city to another. I like to use "fast trains" where possible as these are not only quicker but also have less stops along the way. However, the fast trains (such as the TGV in France) cost more and require compulsory reservations). The method of transportation will depend on where you're going. For example, from Sorrento to Greece you might consider a budget flight out of Naples or Rome.

> My advice would be to carry your Passport with you at all times in your Money Belt. It should be easily accessible in case you're asked to produce this for law enforcement officials. You might want to read www.ricksteves.com/graffiti/helpline/index.cfm/rurl/topic/41273/carry-your-passport-in-czech-republic.html for one example. Regarding your Hostel Locker, be sure to carry your own good quality Padlock (not too large), as usually these are not supplied by the Hostels.

> Travel Paris-Geneva: Use the TGV! Check the bahn.de website for times. You can buy your ticket at SNCF Boutiques which are located all over Paris.

>Travel Rome to Athens: I'd suggest an EasyJet flight from FCO to ATH. Check the EasyJet website for details. Note the Terms & Conditions carefully! European airlines normally only allow ONE carry-on item and have somewhat restrictive weight restrictions for checked luggage (if you have heavy luggage, YOU'LL PAY!).

> How to get to the Meteora: I don't have any information on that at the moment (earth calling MTH!). You might find information at www.greektravel.com/.

>Are there any other cities which are worth spending a few nights at / going out of the way to visit: There are lots of places that might be worth a few nights between Paris and Geneva, however will you have time for them? Your Itinerary looks fairly "full" as it is.

>If anyone has gone handgliding in Interlaken is it worth the cost: I've been Paragliding in Murren (which is just outside Interlaken) and for me it was worth the cost (but it's not cheap!). The tandem flight I took was about 20-minutes but there were other flights available from the Schilthorn (10,000 feet) which lasted about an hour. Have a look at www.tandem-flights.ch/en/muerren/ for further information. The biggest "hazard" was avoiding the "land mines" left by the Cows when landing in Stechelberg; the Pilot (understandably) didn't want to ruin his expensive parachute! Pictures of the experience (taken by the Pilot using a Camera on the end of an extendable metal arm) are usually extra (but well worth it IMHO).

If I didn't suggest it in a previous post, I'd highly recommend reading the Guidebook Europe Through The Back Door before you go.

Hopefully the others will have a few comments as well.

Happy travels!

[madamtrashheap]

Jan 9, 2010 0:31:11 GMT -5 Eagle said:

> How to get to the Meteora: I don't have any information on that at the moment (earth calling MTH!).

You rang?!!

I haven't been to Meteora (I know, somewhere I haven't yet been ), but friends who have say the collection of monasteries is amazing. The Holy Trinity monastery is the most well know site. There are organised tours which leave from Athens, check the Greece travel site Eagle mentioned, or try www.athensinfoguide.com and most go for 2 days (it's almost 400kms/250mi one way from Athens). If you prefer to catch a train or bus both stop at the nearest town to Meteora which is
Kalampaka (the train is high-speed so go for that one). After that, you can hike or take a bus up. You'd be best to organise your accommodation, if you don't do a tour, prior to leaving Athens as it will be an overnight stay.

If you decide not to visit Meteora, then there are many other historical and interesting sites around Greece which can be reached from Athens as a day or overnight trip - Corinth, Sparta, Kalamata, Githeon, Diros Caves, Argos and Nafplion in the Peleponnese as all have interesting sights and histories. You could get there by train - there is a train from Corinth to Kalamata via Tripoli and most main towns have a train station. Although the Greek train system isn't as reliable as others in Europe, it's getting better and sure beats driving - a two lane highway will become three lanes by the very nature of Greek drivers...the horn is connected to the brake and it's exhilarating if you know what you're doing!

You may find that 3 full days (4 nights) is only sufficient for exploring Athens and 1 day trip, so keep that in mind when planning. I'd also consider either removing Ios or adding 1 more night, giving you 1 full day there. And you'll need to alter your order of visiting the islands to make transport easier. Travel Athens to Ios by fast ferry , then ferry to Santorini and on to Crete.

Getting from Greece to Turkey can be tricky as there are no direct flights (unless someone has updated news on this route) and ferries are mainly from islands you haven't listed. As a suggestion, you could take a ferry to Ios from Santorini (hence the route order suggested above) and then the 20min ferry ride to Bodrum and then the bus to Pamukkale. Alternatively, you could take a ferry from Levos (port of Chios) to Izmir then fly to Cappadocia (Kayeri is the airport) from there. You could also take the ferry from Samos (island) to Kusadasi and travel from there. This just depends on your final decision of time and which placed to include for Turkey.

For your Turkey section, how are you planning on travelling between each place? I ask because you've only allowed 1 night in some places that will take a long time to reach from one destination to the other. There are internal flights which may work better than busses (Dolmus or minibus is a very cheap way to get around, and there are larger busses on some routes, but overnight or day busses are both very long journeys) in terms of time for some legs, check www.goreme.com/flight-tickets.php for Istanbul-Cappadocia. The bus (there are no flights) from Pamukkale to Cappadocia will take around 12 hours, hence the need for more than 1 night in each destination. If you want to keep all three destinations, then you will have to add at least 1 more night to Pamukkale and Cappadocia. Istanbul for 4 nights (ie 3 full days) would be a good amount of time for the city, lots to see and eat and smell. If this isn't possible, then look at doing just Istanbul and one other place, and fly between Istanbul and your place of choice.

Once you've had a chance to sort through the above and re-jig your planning, let us know if there are more questions.

A few other points to add to Eagle's notes - the TGV from Paris to Geneva is perfect, then you don't have to spend any time in another city between the two (unless you want to, eg Lyon, Dijon, Bescancon) and I'd even consider skipping Geneva overnight (just store your bag, skip down to the lake, take photos and go back to the train station) and continue straight on to Gimmelwald/Berner Oberland.

Zurich, again, is pretty in the surrounds but not a lot going on in the city itself. Great hikes in the mountains around it, but as you've noted you want to take a trip to Liechtenstein, you'll need to uggle your time well as even though it's only 2.5 hours Gimmelwald-Zurich (thereabouts), you'll need to check your bag (at your hostel, plenty near train station, or in left luggage), jump on another train from Zurich to Schaan-Vaduz (train with one change takes 2hrs) then on to the capital Vaduz (there is no train station in Vaduz directly, yellow Postbus takes 15mins, walking takes 45mins), spend a few hours wandering, buying stamps (look it up!), take the "city train tour", jump back on the bus then train and by the time you arrive back in Zurich you'll only have a portion of the afternoon/evening to see things before you need to leave the next day for Venice (that's around 6.5 - 7hrs by pretty train ride). If you're happy doing that, then go for it, at least you'll see the countryside/scenery! There is also a train Zurich-Sargans (1hour), then a 30min bus ride to Vaduz. The train goes around the Lake (Zürichsee) so sit on the left (from memory) for great views if the weather is good and you choose this option.

Florence - 2 night gives you only 1 full day, so if you plan to visit any museums keep two things in mind: 1. most are closed Mondays; 2. book ahead for tickets to avoid spending all of your time in line. www.firenzemusei.it/index.html If you want, you can stop at Pisa for a few hours between CT and Florence, just check your bag (show your passport) at the storage area near Platform 1, walk or take the orange town bus to the Field of Miracles, take cheesey photos then jump back on the train to continue to Florence (an hour away). That way you have one full day the next day to sightsee/eat, then you can even sneak the next morning in and leave after lunch as it's only 1.5hours on the Eurostar (Italia - ES) between Florence and Rome.

Venice - ditto in terms of planning your visit. You only have one full day so check what's open and what you want to see. The beauty of Venice is that you can spend all day outside and really get a feel for the city if you have no interest in museums.

Hopefully this gives you something to work with while you're planning your trip and gets you closer to reaching your dream. Happy planning!

[daisy]

I removed Geneva as a destination to stay overnight, however if I do plan on getting out and seeing the city for a few hours, are there any restrictions on getting back on the train? How does it work / do i need to make reservations to do this?

I also removed meteora from my itinerary as i think i’d like to spend more time visiting the islands. I also didn’t know it was so far from Athens. Maybe next time!

What is the best/cheapest way to get from Interlaken to Zurich?

I am not too interested in visiting Zurich but am only going there in order to get to Liechtenstein. I am planning on taking the train to Sargans then bus to Vaduz. Is this possible to do by staying there for one night or would it be better to give myself more time to get to and from Liechtenstein, keeping in mind that seeing Zurich itself is not a priority?

Also is there any way to get straight from Vaduz to Venice instead of going back to Zurich first?

Is it possible to get directly from crete to turkey (preferably somewhere relatively close to pamukkale)? If there are no flights, how long would it take by ferry / how expensive would it be?
If this will take too much time and money I might be better off to skip crete for this trip.

and yes eagle, i have read europe through the back door due to your previous suggestion, and it was the best source i’ve come across, thanks again!

Thank you both for your extensive replies, i really appreciate it!

[daisy]

O and i was also wondering if anyone had any site seeing recommendations in Athens, the kind of places that you wouldn't find in a guide book?

Also is it worth it to spend the night in Naples or can it be seen as a day trip from sorrento?

[madamtrashheap]

If you want to do a little sightseeing in Geneva, it is certainly possible to store your bag at the train station (look for the luggage locker signs - were around CHF3 per 5 hours last time I was there) or leave it with the Left Luggage counter if you prefer (will be around CHF5 for 24hrs) and wander down to the lake before catching the train to your next destination. Just check the frequency of trains (you would have had to change in Geneva anyway) for your next destination so you know how much time you have to play with. The Swiss train system website will be helpful: www.sbb.ch . If you want to reserve a seat on your next journey leg, you can do so when you first arrive at Geneva, but unless you're travelling on a Friday or Sunday afternoon or public holiday, you should be fine with just a ticket.

What is the best/cheapest way to get from Interlaken to Zurich? Train would be best. Check the website above. There are Postbus (literally the Post Office Bus) public bus services, but these take longer than the train, thus eat into your time, and usually only apply where there are no train routes (ie small villages) so I'd stick with the train in this instance.

As per my last Post, Liechtenstein doesn't take that long to get to. I'm not sure where you're thinking of staying the night (Sargans or Vaduz), but if you're coming from Interlaken, it's only around 2hrs on the train, then then connection to Sargans (1hr) and the bus ride to Vaduz, so you could do it in a long day.

Vaduz to Venice will involve going through Austria. A bus from Vaduz to Feldkirch (just over the Liechtenstein-Austrian border) takes around 20-30mins, then you can catch a train from there to Innsbruck (around 2hrs)and then on to Venice (train takes just under 6hrs, good scenery). Or stay a night in Innsbruck to break up the journey, it's a pretty place.

AFAIK, there are no direct flights from Greece to Turkey, this includes Crete (it is Greece, afterall). I don't believe there are any direct ferries from Crete to Turkey either, but do a little ferry checking on the web (www.ferries.gr is a start, or the Crete Tourism website) and see the route I suggested in my previous Post.

Athens has been very well excavated, explored and discovered, so in terms of what to see that isn't in a guidebook, that's a difficult ask. Is there any reason why you don't want to see some of the major items in history? If you want "off the beaten track", so to speak, then again that's a hard one as you'd have to get out of Athens to really explore the rest of the culture. Athens has some amazing sites which will fill your time, so if you've not been before, don't be in too much of a hurry to see them.

Naples as a day trip from Sorrento would be a better option for you. In fact, you could combine it with a stop in Pompei first, then continue on to Naples and visit the Archaeological Musuem which has many of the pieces and more information on Pompei, so you can get a full perspective on the site. There is a public bus from the train station to the Museum, just ask at the Tourism Office in the station, they'll mark a map for you, and be aware of your surroundings when you leave the station and while walking in the city or on public transport. You'll need a Euro1.00 ticket for each journey, so purchase two from the Tabbacchi (newstand) before you leave the station and remember to validate them in the orange (or yellow) boxes on the bus when you board. The driver will point at your stop if you ask him and smile. Stay close to the front, and hold on!

If you don't have a specific reason for visiting Naples, then I'd leave it this time around and concentrate on Sorrento, Positano, Pompei and Capri as you only have 2 full days in the region. You may also find that it's better to alter your itinerary to travel from Florence to Sorrento (via Naples, on the Eurostar-Italia servie) then go back up to Rome and fly to Athens from there. Greater choice of flights.