Risk it or go on a Program?

[cher1e]

Its always been my plan to backpack around europe, then work in London for a few months (finish backpacking end of June then work)..

I'm from Australia and I've been told that its easy to get a job, yet I've read sites which give you figures about how hard it is to get work and that you can end up losing alot of money

I've also found sites which have sites which find you a job in London pubs, no experience necessary and before you get there.. however, they generally cost $550+AU.

By the time I will get to London, I will have had over 2 years of waitressing experience..

So my question is this: Do I fork out the money for a guarentted job and accomodation or do I go at it myself?

[WillTravel]

Maybe an Aussie who's done this can give you specific advice. But in the meantime, I'd strongly recommend checking these sites:
www.gumtree.com
thorntree.lonelyplanet.com
boards.bootsnall.com/eve/

[mango]

I would be very wary of someone who asks for money in order to give you a job. Aside from anything else I think it might be illegal to do that in the UK - you are definitely at risk of being exploited.
Better to suss out the situation a little and then worry about it when you get there.

If you have 2 years experience waiting tables you should have no problems. You could also pick up another skill like being able to pull beers or make cappucinos.

Just like in Melbourne it's pretty unlikely you are going to find this type of work over the internet - better to just walk around the area you want to work in and go into cafes, bars etc you like the look of and ask them face-to-face if they need any help (take a CV with you for references)

Make sure you have enough to live off for the first few weeks, don't leave it to the last minute to start looking and you should be fine. Good luck! ;D

[MuvverRussia]

Agencies like that definitely aren't illegal in the UK. They can be slightly dodgy though, although at other times they're fine. Basically, the legitimate agencies, such as the charity I work for in my spare time are doing everything they can to differentiate themselves from the likes of South East Asian Snakeheads, gangmasters etc.

Depending on what flexibility the agency offers you (you don't want to be assigned a dodgy pub in an even worse area) then I'd be tempted to go for that. The reason is that you'll need the Working Holidaymaker Visa (WHV). Now, as an Aus citizen you shouldn't have any problems getting this, meaning that you can work in the UK completely legally for 2 years. However, you're only generally granted this visa once in your lifetime, so if the UK didn't work out you may have wasted your visa.

Then there's the fact that getting a job with an agency will minimise your need for Capital. Otherwise you'll need probably in the region of £1500-2000 to set up in the UK before you find a job (accommodation deposit/rent, food etc).

And I completely agree with what Mango said. The easiest way to get a service sector job is to ask. Many places often won't even bother with large scale advertisement for the posts as there's loads of people after these jobs and the entire sector tends to be quite transient anyway.

Basically it's up to you. However if the agency is reputable then I'd consider going with it (make sure you know exactly what you're paying before you commit though - this includes any possible % deductions from your wages).

[me]

one time an agency said they would place me for a job overseas, this was just after i got my degree. my understanding was that the fee would be paid from my earnings at the purported job i'd get in Europe. then, in a phone interview, they asked if i had a credit card to cover the expenses of getting central Europe for the position. like a fool, i said that was no problem. so, they wanted me to pay the fee in advance with that credit card.

alarm bells went off, i said "no thank you" and hung up the phone.

a few years later, a company had advertised in the local paper for English teachers in Russia. i faxed off my résumé and, sure enough, they contacted me insisting on a cash payment. [that company was called Kaliostro which, i later was told, was the name of a well known charlatan from 19th century russian history. fortunately, i never paid anything]

[mango]

According to the Employment Agencies Act 1973

Employment agencies and employment businesses are prohibited from charging fees to workers for finding or seeking to find them jobs.

www.dti.gov.uk/employment/employment-legislation/employment-guidance/page19486.html#fees1

[MuvverRussia]

Mango - yeah, but internationally it's different. That particular part of UK employment law only covers UK companies/organisations recruiting directly in the UK. Otherwise my charity would be out of business and trust me, we aren't . It's legal for companies/organisations to charge for finding employment in the UK if a subsidiary of that organisation is based in the foreign country in question (e.g. say an EU company had a subsidiary in Argentina, then it would be legal for that subsidiary to charge an Argentinian worker to work in the UK). Employment law is a complete minefield - although I've dealt with it a fair bit I still don't comprehend/recall the vast majority of it .

I still feel that if the employment organisation is kosher then it may be worth giving them a second glance. Especially if you know/can speak to (reputable) people who have worked through them in the past.

[cher1e]

The program I was originally looking at was called Passport2Pubs.. they claim that with them you get:
-Full accommodation and meals
- Full on the job training
- "The security of Passport2pubs only using reputable pubs, so you know you won’t end up in an undesirable location."
- "A 24 hour support line"

The pay is $400AU = L165 per week, which according to the standard wage law looks slightly lower than it should be for a 40 hour week..but it seems to include accomodation, which would cost alot..

So is that reasonable, or is going at it alone still better?

[WillTravel]

Have you been able to find any truthful accounts of happy or unhappy users of this program?

Having all meals included (if that's what it is) sounds a bit confining - or else you will lose some value inevitably when you want to do your own thing sometimes.

[cher1e]

No, the only accounts I have found are the (biased) accounts of people within that website - obviously they are only going to say good things.

I guess with food it would be optional when to eat? Generally i think it said the meals were typical pub meals so I'm not sure that would be great the whole time...

[MuvverRussia]

cher1e - what hours would you be working? If that's a 40 hour week then it's pretty abysmal. The UK min wage is £5.05/hour for people over 22, so if you were to find your own job you'd probably be looking around £200-240 before tax each week (tax wouldn't be much though).

That said, I would have thought that your accommodation and free meals is included in your income for taxable purposes (benefit in kind)? So on the wage front it doesn't look so bad - certainly pretty much on a par with other pub jobs over here.

Best bet would be to put a post on Lonely Planet's Thorn tree forum (http://thorntree.lonelyplanet.com/) asking about working in the UK like this and about the particular company you're considering using.

[mango]

cher1e they are charging $650 or nearly two weeks' wages. So your first month would be paid about £2.50/hour to work in a smokey pub that you don't get to see before you arrive. Which is ridiculous. If you ask me it's a scam.

What about the accomodation and meals - don't assume these come on top of your pay; you might find you end up paying for them out of your wages. The website isn't clear on this, it just states "with your employment you get full accommodation and meals* included"

What happens if you don't like it - you will be living there so don't assume it would be so easy to up and leave and find another job, especially if you are stuck there working 40 hour weeks.

With statements like "you and your family will have security and peace of mind knowing that you will have a place to stay as soon as you arrive in the UK." they are clearly are playing on your fears and uncertainties.

Although the prospect of living and working in another country is definitely attractive it is still working and you should expect to be paid a decent wage. If you have 2 years experience in service I don't think you need their help; turnover in the industry is just like in Melbourne (ie very high) and many successful restaurants and cafes will be looking for new staff.

[me]

too bad it's for this year. i understand England will have a smoking ban from Summer 2007 in "all enclosed public places." Scotland has had such a ban as of March, and when is Wales gonna get such a ban?

- d

mango said:

So your first month would be paid about £2.50/hour to work in a smokey pub that you don't get to see before you arrive. Which is ridiculous. If you ask me it's a scam.

[cher1e]

Thanks for that advice, I'm really glad I asked... I looked at gumtree . com, and I saw job possibilities. For a small amount I found that I could rent a room in a shared apartment. I think if I budget wisely, I wont end up comeletely out of pocket like the table on their site suggests..It sounds like a tool to get people to use the program...

I did actually find someone on gumtree again who had used passport and they had really liked it, but having used one of those type of programs (a student exchange several years ago) I can see how they work - a support line wouldnt end up to be t much at all.

I will ask on the thorntree site and see if I get a response, and stay posted... To be honest I think I'm just a little unsure about going at it alone, although now it appears to be emerging as a better option..

[MuvverRussia]

cher1e - they're definitely going to overinflate costs. That said, London is expensive. You'll need around £180-200 a week as a bare minimum from my experience.

David - the Welsh Assembly Government haven't yet committed to a date. That said, any ban is likely to come in slightly later than in England, although I can see there being a total ban on smoking in public places by around 2008.

The quicker they bring the ban in the better in my opinion - why should non smokers have to put up with passive smoking in bars, restaurants, clubs etc?