Solo Trip/Beginning Itinerary (Part 2!)

[jessus]

Thanks to everyone who's helped me out already! I've been lurking some more on the forums, and developing more of a detailed itinerary.

So: I've got cities, and the time I think each city needs plus whether I want to do it "earlier" or "later". The (NOTE: doesn't include transportation time; I haven't got that far! AND they aren't necessarily in order... ). The trip will be about 2 months, Sept-Oct 2008.

- flight into Ireland (I've found the cheapest flights here) - Dublin - 2 days, plus a 5-day Shamrocker tour of Ireland
- Bunclody (Ireland) - for family - 2-3 days

(EARLIER) (for cold or rainy weather mostly!)
- London - 3 days
- Bath/Stonehenge - 2 days
- Amsterdam, with a bit of Dutch countryside - 3 days
- ? Hannover & Kropp (Germany - for family) - 3 days
- ? Copenhagen - 2 days (is it worth it? Kropp is VERY north Germany...)
- Berlin - 3 days
- Munich + Neuschwanstein Castle + Dachau - 3 days (hit Oktoberfest?)
- ? Vienna - 2 days

(LATER)
- Paris - 3 days
- Aix en Provence - 3 days
- Marseille - 3 days
- ? Barcelona - 2 days
- Rome - 3 days
- Venice - 3 days
- Naples/Pompeii - 2-3 days

--> How's my day numbering?
--> Is there anythign I'm missing/anything you think I should drop/anything especially special I should see in these places?

Also... here's my original post if you want to compare! pretravel.proboards1.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&n=1&thread=3085

[Eagle]

Jess, that was a quick response!!! I just added some comments to your previous Post, but didn't expect a reply this quickly. I only have time for a brief look at your Itinerary tonight, but will add more later if I have further suggestions. My initial comments are:

> Dublin - great spot (I was there this fall). As you have Irish citizenship, I was wondering if you've been there before? If not, be sure to spend some time in the Temple Bar district in the evenings (it's a bit of a "zoo", but lots of fun). I'm assuming you'll enjoy a pint of Guinness while there? The Bar at the Arlington Hotel is great fun too (on the other side of the river).

> London - is there any possibility you could allocate at least one more day here? There is so much to see, that three days is somewhat the "bare minimum". What sights are you most interested in seeing?

> Bath/ Stonehenge - again, I was there this fall. For Stonehenge you might consider the half-day Mad Max Tours, which cover Stonehenge and Lacock (the full day tour also covers parts of the Cotswolds). One point though, at Stonehenge the admission cost to actually walk around Stonehenge is not included in the tour. It's not too expensive from what I recall?

> Amsterdam - three days sounds about right? herrbert, any comments???

> Hannover & Kropp

> Copenhagen - I'm not familiar with Kropp, but Denmark is a bit of distance from Hannover. Given the travel time and cost for only two days, my preference would be to leave this for another visit (also, Denmark and other Scandinavian countries are very expensive, and if you're on a tight budget this might not be advisable).

> Berlin - have fun!

> Munich - another great city! It was a bit chaotic when I was there last Fall, as the Pope was in town. As you're planning to visit both Dachau and Neuschwanstein (which I also did), I would highly recommend Radius Tours, as they provide awesome tours with outstanding Guides. They have an office in the Munich Train station. You might want to book early, as their tours fill up quickly. Check their web site for further information and prices. Again, is there any way you could add at least a day? If you spend two days on the day tours, that would only leave one day to see Munich (not enough time, really). Also, regarding OktoberFest, this tends to book up almost a year in advance so it's not the type of event you'll be able to just "drop in".

> Vienna - if possible try to fit in a short visit to Salzburg or Hallstatt and the Salzkammergut (I was speaking with someone from the area yesterday, and he indicated that Hallstatt has become somewhat of a "party town" for younger travellers). I'll try and check that out next year.

> Paris - four or five days would be better. What do you want to see in Paris?

> Aix en Provence - nice area.

> Marseilles - I would probably drop this and spend more time in more desirable areas. Is there something specific you want to see in Marseilles?

> Barcelona - good choice! I'm sure herrbert will have some suggestions!

> Rome - sorry to sound like "a broken record", but three days is not enough time for one of the most important cities in Europe! What sights do you want to see in Rome?

I noticed that Florence wasn't on the list? It's an awesome city! I can hardly wait to return. If you're planning to visit the Uffizi or Accademia galleries, reservations are highly advisable so that you don't end up in a queue for hours!

Also, when touring Italy most travellers fit in a visit to the Cinque Terre (west of Pisa). It's and incredible area, and a good place to rest and just enjoy the ambience (and of course the food and wine!).

> Venice - an interesting an unique city and certainly worth a visit! However I found it to be more expensive than Florence or other locations. You might find a budget Hotel a better choice in Venice, as I understand the Hostel is located in somewhat of an "outlying location" (comments, anyone?).

> Naples / Pompeii - Naples tends to be a bit more of an "intense" cultural experience, but interesting. While in this area, were you planning to visit the Amalfi coast (Positano, Sorrento) or the magical isle of Capri???

Those are a few comments for tonight. I'm sure the others will have lots of suggestions to help "smooth out" your Itinerary.

Cheers!

[herrbert]

Amsterdam - three days sounds about right? herrbert, any comments???

No not really, I think three days is alright. All the attractions in Amsterdam are close to eachother. (walking distance), so you can see a lot in a short time. Only if you want to visit all off the 3 major museums: Rijksmuseum, the Stedelijk and the van Goghmuseum you need more time. My suggestion is to visit the van Goghmuseum, as it gives a great insight in the man, his life and the paintings.

Last time I was in Amsterdam I spotted a St. Christophers Hostel in the Warmoesstraat. I don't know if it is new or not but it might be a good choice, if people don't like the bulldog or the other typical choices for a hostel in Amsterdam.

Kopenhagen is nice for 2 days. I say nice, because to me it wasn't that special, as it looks very similar to a lot of Dutch cities. But there are some good sights. If you like the countryside, I would take a look at spending some time at the Island of Mon (south of Kopenhagen), and maybe spending a daytrip from Kopenhagen in Roskilde, where you can find a big Cathedral, and a Viking boat museum.

I think 3 days in Berlin is a minimum. it is a big city, and a lot of the attractions are spread all over town. So for sure get a metrocard. (and know that a daycard, is a card for that day, not for 24 hours)

2 days for Vienna is only half of the minimum I would spend in Vienna. There is a lot to see and do, so I would suggest at least 4 days.

And I have to agree with Eagle, a visit to Salzburg would be a good idea. And for the both of you: In the main shopping street, there used to be a little pretzel shop, selling giant pretzels, that were very tasty, so if you are looking for a cheap bite when you are there, try to find out if it is still there. (last time in Salzburg was in 1999 or 2000)

I think Eagle is spot-on about France and Italy, so I am not repeating his comments.

For Barcelona I have not so many suggestions. I am in Madrid a lot (booked tickets yesterday to go there the first few days of february), but when the AVE is finally finished for this connections (should be within 5 months). I am sure I will visit Barcelona, as the connections will become a lot better. Of course I have already done some research for when I go there, and of course I want to see the Familia Sagrada, Montjuich and take a daytrip to Girona.

I think that September/October is a perfect time to visit Spain and Portugal. What about Madrid, Granada and Sevilla.

[pointofnoreturn]

Will only comment on some cities:

Naples/Pompeii - can be done as a daytrip from Rome. To be honest, from my experience, Naples is very gritty but can be beautiful if you know exactly what you want to do. Pompeii's worthwhile but will take up at least 1/2 a day. You should keep in mind that the museums in Naples are closed on Tuesdays (I think) so planning is essential. I didn't visit Naples itself because after Pompeii, I was just exhausted and had no energy to see more of the city.

Rome - should be like 5 nights because it's HUGE and so beautiful. I stayed for 5 nights and I only visited like a third of the sites.

London - I don't mean to sound like a broken record, haha, but 3 nights.... ehh.... Are you flying into London first? It'll take plenty of time to get through the airport, get out of the airport and into the city (not to mention expensive). You might want to consider going straight to Bath from the airport for 8-pounds (Gatwick-Bath Spa) on First Great Western train if you book ahead of time, which is a huge bargain because that's the same amount it takes to get from the airport into London itself!

Paris - 4 or 5 days would be ideal. Planning is essential again because there are many metro stations and you'll need to plan ahead of time of what you're going to see each day and save money on metro tickets.

[jessus]

Thanks to all of you for your quick and marvellously detailed feedback! ;D (Although I always welcome more, if there are any other reply-ers out there who aren't as speedy!)

> Dublin - I may be Irish, but I've never been out of the Western hemisphere! Temple Bar I will certainly check out, and oh yes, a glass of Guiness (or more) will be consumed. Though I usually drink Strongbow. As well I'll drop Trinity College (among other universities that will be added to the itinerary, as I plan to apply all over the place for my masters and/or doctorate when I get back!)

> London - I think I may add another day... or 2.. here. Thanks for the transportation help too... As for sites I want to see, they're not always specific sites! I like to see if I can just get a feel of a place too (which could use a longer trip, but hey, I may be moving to Europe in not too long). But as for London, I have an obsession with The Tower of London, I'll need to see the new Globe Theatre (though I think I'll be too late in the season to see a play...), then there's London Bridge/Big Ben to at least see, and visit some pubs... and such.

> Bath/ Stonehenge - Yeah.. GETTING to Stonehenge was a bit of a puzzle, but I'll check out that Mad Max tour. I know Haggis has one too..

> Amsterdam - Van Gogh Museum is my top museum choice. I'm not so into realism, so I don't think I'll be hitting the Rijks. I do want to see... the Anne Frank house and the city in general. The canals, and the *ahem* coffe houses, and the brown cafes... maybe a windmill or two along the outskirts? I think I'd like to stay in the Flying Pig Hostel actually. I like the idea of it....

> Copenhagen - My biggest site here is Christiania, which has fascinated me. Although I may drop this... AND maybe drop Kropp too if I can get all my family to see me nice and easily in Hannover! (Which I hear is a prefect stopover between Amsterdam and Berlin)

> Berlin - Hm.. thanks for the bus info.. I heard that it was all spread out, but I think it's possible to do the 3-day thing..

> Munich - I'll check out that tour company too! And yeah.. I know Oktoberfest fills up early. That's why I'm thinking of figuring out Munich.. now-ish! I realize I may have to add a day or 2 if I want to do Neusch + Dachau + the city itself + Maybe Oktoberfest. Also... Oktoberfest solo? Am I being silly, or will it be even easier to ensure that I meet up with some people to drink some beers with

> Vienna - I've been hearing more and more good things about Vienna. At first it wasn't even on the itinerary... but I've plopped it on. I think I have to re-evaluate and add a day or 2. And maybe Salzburg. I am very familiar with my composers (played competitive classicaly piano since I was 6), so it'd probably be a neat place to visit.

> Paris - Wel.. I'm not even sure what I want to see in Paris. The Louvre for surre (part of it!), the Eiffel Tower (although not necessarily going up...), Notre Dame... I guess my main interest in Paris is just.. the city itself. The cafes... things like that. That's why I only put in a few days (since I put more days in other French cities!)

> Marseilles - Hm. I wanted to add another French area (I want to just "relax" for a few days without any specific sites to see... while speaking in French. Because I'm still learning). This caught my eye because it is described as having a blend of cultures, including a good deal of North African... (which is nice, because I decided to take Morocco off the list for this trip) - why do you say not Marseilles? And any other suggestions of a French area where I can just.. hang around.. for a few days with a good atmosphere to it?

> Barcelona - I was not originally going to include any Spain, but I LOVE Gaudi and Dali (Dali is my favourite artist & I'd do a trip out to the Dali museum) , so I added on Barcelona! I can't really think of my personal "why" for going to Madrid/Sevilla/etc... hm.. I may do more research in this area (but herrbert: what's your "why" for loving Madrid and the others?)

> Rome - Hm.. I may add some time to Rome. The ruins are my biggest draw to the city. But I might even just stick to three days, because it's never been a city where I've felt a huge draw (which sounds crazy, I know!)

> Florence - I don't know why it's not on the list! I guess I was being a bit conservative with Italy, because it's never been the biggest in my thoughts, and because I want to practice my French and German (but I don't speak a word of Italian!)
> Cinque Terre... same reasons, but sounds like a nice place! I may check it out further..

> Venice - Didn't realize it was pricier than others, but this IS one of the places I fantasize about! I'll take your advice on the hostel/hotel.. hm.. (or maybe take a bit of a risk and Couch Surf,...)

> Naples / Pompeii - "intense" cultural experience? That sounds a bit scary... what do you mean? And I didn't realize the Amalfi Coast & the isle of Capri were nice and close... they intrigued me as well. Ooh. I will be sure not to visit on a Tuesday though! But I would like to do more than daytrip, since I adore the Pompeii history, and would liek to visit the site, as well as the museum in Naples, and that deserves an overnight in my books!

[herrbert]

And any other suggestions of a French area where I can just.. hang around.. for a few days with a good atmosphere to it?

Going with the Van Gogh-theme: Arles? (also famous for the Roman remains in the City) maybe you can combine it with a stopover in Carcossonne on the way to Barcelona.

Madrid and the other places in Spain, that I visited so far, have a really different atmosphere than the other Western European Capitols. It's a little more relaxed, but also a very trendy place. My best friend lives in Madrid, and that makes it a conveniant place to go as well. (The next trip is already planned for the first few days of February.) I just love the city and the people. When there is a possibility (job) I will not hesitate to move to Madrid.

For people visiting Madrid, there is also the possibility for some beautiful daytrips: Toledo and Segovia. Salamanca is also possible as a daytrip but deserves more time.

Spain has a lot of places that are worth to visit, so maybe you could consider a seperate trip in the future, that include at least Madrid, Sevilla and Granada. There are places enough to keep you in Spain for a month easily (Cadiz, Jerez, Cordoba, Caceres, Merida, Salamanca, Cuenca, San Sebastian, Santiago de Compostella, Bilboa etc etc. (don't forget that Portugal is also worth a visit)

[Eagle]

jess, a few more thoughts on your Itinerary.....

and oh yes, a glass of Guiness (or more) will be consumed.

If you're going to be travelling in the south (County Cork), you could also try Murphy's and/or Beamish stout. They have a slightly different flavour to Guinness, but all are good (IMO). These might be available in Dublin, but not sure as I tended to favour Guinness.

then there's London Bridge/Big Ben to at least see

You're probably referring to the Tower Bridge? As the name implies, it's close to the Tower of London. I believe London Bridge was moved to Lake Havasu, Arizona a few years ago? Regarding Big Ben, you'll be able to see it, however when I was there a few months ago the bells were silent (routine maintenance).

One suggestion for travel from London to Bath. I used National Express Coach from London Victoria Coach station, and it was an easy trip. As I recall the cost was about £17.00, which is cheaper than the train.

Eiffel Tower - there's usually a fairly long queue to take the trip up the Tower. However, this is sometimes a bit more reasonable based on the time of day (ie: around 18:00 seemed to be a good time?). There's one charge for going to the first level and an additional charge (and another queue) for going right to the top.

I want to practice my French and German (but I don't speak a word of Italian!)

I don't speak French or German, but I'm always trying to improve my Italian skills. I found that having some ability with Italian was a huge benefit, even for just understanding PA messages on trains, restaurant situations, etc. (while on the trains on one occasion in Germany, I had to use Chinese students to translate German to English - a bit of a strange situation!). I have resolved to work on French a bit before my next trip, as I had a few "language difficulties" in Paris and Normandy.

Travel in Naples - one of the reasons I recommend caution in Naples is this item that was posted here on the Boards last year - pretravel.proboards1.com/index.cgi?board=CCadvice&action=display&n=1&thread=3755&page=1. I suppose that could happen anywhere, but it might be wise to exercise caution in Naples.

Rome touring - you might want to check a Guidebook, as there are lots of interesting sights in Rome. You might find there is enough to interest you there for more than three days?

Good luck with your planning!

[herrbert]

I believe London Bridge was moved to Lake Havasu, Arizona a few years ago?

Huh?

London Bridge is the bridge closest to Tower Bridge, between metrostations Monument and London Bridge. But maybe it is better to look towards Tower Bridge from London Bridge.

[me]

London Bridge <1831 - 1962> was moved to Arizona. the current London Bridge is still in London.

[pointofnoreturn]

Again, if you finalize your schedule quickly enough, you can take the train to Bath from London airport or London Paddington train station for less than 9 pounds if booked 2-3 months early with First Great Western. Much cheaper and more efficient than the bus which is longer.

I'd highly recommend you head straight to Bath from Gatwick because Bath is more relaxing than London and by going there straight away, you'd save money on transportation costs (come on.... at least 9 pounds to get into London from the airport? When you can spend that much money to go from the airport to Bath!).

Re: Eiffel Tower. Ditto with the evening arrival. I showed up around 5:30 and we only waited about 25-30 minutes in line and the view was gorgeous! The sunsets were amazing!

[jessus]

Hm... Arles and Carcossone I've heard a bit about, and they sound pretty nice... I'll check them out further!

And I think I may actually save the majority of Spain for another trip! (And maybe visit Portugal and Morocco on that one as well) -although I may still visit Barcelona & Figueres which has the Dali museum... I'll have to think on it.

And I WAS actually thinking Tower Bridge, but was thinking of the nursery rhyme when I wrote it... (although interesting tidbit about the original London Bridge being in Arizona! I had no idea!).

I'm not sure if I'm going to go UP the Eiffel Tower... I heard there's a.. church (the basilica? I can't remember ATM), that you can go up close by with a similar view and no fee.... though I will definitely go up in the evening if I do go! (IWaiting in line for the Empire State Building in NYC was a pretty bad experience the second time I was there... I'm using that as my guideline)

And Naples. Hm. I may want to stay more in Pompeii area than actually in Naples. Even my Dad mentioned it being a dangerous city when I mentioned it (and he's never been to Italy or anything!)... that's something to think on..

Though I will need to find a few key phrases in Italian before I get there! That will probably be pretty important. . .

I will go through my guidebook a little better for Rome... I know there's some interesting things there!

And.. thanks for the transportation advice on Bath/London. Some of the cheaper flights from here are to Gatwick (the others I would take are to Ireland), so I might actually start in England. Maybe start in Bath... hm.
(Any transportation advice is appreciated, because other than buying a Eurail pass, I have no real idea how I'm getting around yet!)

[Eagle]

Jess, once you have your list of cities somewhat formalized, enter these into Railsaver and the web site will suggest the most appropriate and cost effective rail pass for you. It usually provides a fairly good estimate for both rail pass and P-P tickets.

[francefiend]

Hello,
I'm new to this forum, but I read your posts and realized I could help you a tiny bit with this itinerary.

> Marseilles - Hm. I wanted to add another French area (I want to just "relax" for a few days without any specific sites to see... while speaking in French. Because I'm still learning). This caught my eye because it is described as having a blend of cultures, including a good deal of North African... (which is nice, because I decided to take Morocco off the list for this trip) - why do you say not Marseilles? And any other suggestions of a French area where I can just.. hang around.. for a few days with a good atmosphere to it?

1. Marseille. Beautiful city...not like anywhere else in France. More Mediterranean than French. You want to speak French in Marseille? Haha, you will LOVE the Marseillais accent: they speak French with Italian rhythm and pronounce all the vowels, including silent Es. Marseille is incredibly diverse. You will see traditional Western dress as well as Muslim women in head scarves. While you're there, try the couscous :-) I recommend Sur le Pouce, where I had some Tunisian couscous with chicken.

It is not the most well-kept city on Earth. Some parts look like the shoulder of a major highway :-( but the view of the Mediterranean Sea makes it worth a visit. You can also see the famous castle/prison Chateau d'IF off the coast, or Notre Dame de la Garde, topped by the shining La Bonne Mère on the hill. Take the little tourist train from the Vieux Port to Notre Dame...walking up a slope of this magnitude would be too grueling!

2. Aix-en-Provence is a fantastic city as well. A bit cosmopolitan, but never arrogant. This tiny town acts like New York but can be crossed in less than two hours. Nice people, perfect weather, elegant architecture, great nightlife, and a nearby mountain. For details, check out their thorough Office of Tourism on the web or in person. I compiled a "Best of" list for Aix-en-Provence that might be of help to you. I lived there last summer, so if you need any more information, feel free to send me a message.

3. If you'd like to say you've stood in a real Roman area, Arles is the right place to visit. They also have ruins from a Roman amphitheater, which they still use, along with many Van Gogh themed attractions throughout the town. Ask the tourist office for information about their themed walks. I've never been to Carcasonne (two As, one O), but pictures of it look spectacular

4. Dali fan? Visit Perpignan, located on the French side of the border with Spain. He claimed the Perpignan train station was the center of the universe.

[jessus]

Eagle - will most definitely use Railsaver! Thanks for the tip.

Francefiend - thanks for the rich info! And welcome to the boards! (Though I'm relatively new myself, but hey.. might as well give a welcome!)

I especially liked your info about Marseilles... I guess the "not well kept" is the part that takes away from recommendations! But I do love the diversity idea. And I like me some couscous I think I knew about the accent there, but conveniently forgot.. hm. In fact, I think I heard that in Aix, they say "aiks".. or "eeks"? rather than "ay" for the word Aix itself. (Do you happen to know that?)

Aix is still in my head, mostly because of the book Ysabel by Guy Gavriel Kay. It's technically a fantasy I guess, but it's set in Aix (while Kay lived there writing it), and it really made me want to see it. There's also visits to Arles & Carcasonne in the book! (If I remember rightly). Checking out & bookmarking your best of list!

And I will definitely investigate the Dali & Perpignan connection further...

[jessus]

Okay, here is a bit of a revision (and a different way of looking at my cities too!)

Flight in to Europe - to Dublin. Flight out of Europe - from Dublin or London Gatwick?

DEFINITE VISITS (with timelines ** that don't include between-city transportation, and aren't particularly in order)
- Dublin – 2 days --> + Shamrocker 5 (or 3?) day tour
- Bunclody – 2-3 days (family)
- London – 4-5 days
- Bath & Stonehenge – 1-2 days
- Amsterdam – 3-4 days
- Hannover [& Kropp?], Germany (family) – 1-3 days
- Berlin - 3-4 days
- Munich + Neuschwanstein Castle + Dachau – 4 days (hit Oktoberfest?)
- Paris – 4-5 days
- Aix en Provence - 2-3 days
- Rome – 4 days
- Venice - 2-3 days
- Naples (to Pompeii) – 1 day
- Barcelona & Figueres – 3-4 days

MAYBES
- Vienna - 3-4 days
- Salzburg - 2 days
- Another Place in France, for ~ 2-3 days: Marseilles, Arles, or Carcasonne?
- Cinque Terre...