14 Day Trip In March

[pointofnoreturn]

Oh sorry, yes, one metro ticket. Sorry, the public transportation here in Ottawa - 2 tickets = 1 ride. So you are correct so excuse my slip of mind.

When you leave a metro station (underground), your ticket expires unless you're transferring to another metro station. So as long as you stay underground, your ticket is good. But when you get to the end of Metro Line 7 and exit to the above ground where the bus station is, your ticket will have expired because you've crossed the turnstiles. So you'll need another metro ticket to ride the bus.

So really, 2 metro ticket altogether to get to the airport = not a bad bargain

[WillTravel]

When I visited Paris before, I always got a weekly Carte Orange, which you can use on the bus and metro as much as you like. This is good if you are staying 5 days or so, and you arrive by Wednesday. The weekly Carte Orange is good Monday - Sunday. I never went to further out zones, and I think you may have to buy a supplemental fare for places like Orly Airport.

Another option if you know you are doing a lot of travel in one day is a one-day Paris Mobilis pass. Google for info, as I'm not up on it, but basically it's a daypass for the bus and metro.

Another option, which is *usually* not a good idea is the Paris Visite pass. This is the one that Paris tries to push on English-speaking tourists.

Another option is to simply buy a carnet (pack of 10) metro tickets, for something like 11 Euros.

You can find more on various web sites. The ratp.fr site has a transit planner that is really good for figuring out the best Paris transit option between two points. One funny thing with the RATP site is that it only describes the Carte Orange in French. If you switch to English, you'll only find info about the Paris Visite.

[dddx]

WillTravel, it seems like the Carte Orange has been officially phased out and replaced with the Navigo Pass. But anyways thank you for the information. It gives me a few more ideas on budgeting my trip.

[WillTravel]

That's sort of correct, but they are still using the term Carte Orange Hebdomadaire, but it is "loaded" onto a Navigo Pass (so far as I can tell, this is like a London Oyster Pass). I finally found an official explanation in English here:
www.transilien.com/web/site/accueil/guide-du-voyageur/billets-abonnements/carte-orange-hebdomadaire/lang/en

[dddx]

Hi all again! I just spent an entire afternoon with my mates discussing our trip, and true to being a bunch of 20 year olds, we didn't have much to show for at the end of the whole thing! ;P Which leaves me worried as I know ticket prices will probably rise the longer we wait.

Well, a few things we have agreed too, and I need to know the advice of you all on these boards.

We will be leaving for London, and arriving on the morning of the 15th of March, and flying out of London again on the 6th of April.

15 London
16 London
17 London
18 London (Day Trip to Liverpool + Manchester)
19 Flight to Valencia on easyJet in the evening
20 Valencia (Rail to Barcelona)
21 Barcelona
22 Barcelona
23 Barcelona (Overnight Rail to Paris)
24 Paris
25 Paris
26 Paris (Overnight Rail to Vienna)
27 Vienna
28 Vienna
29 Vienna (Overnight Rail to Florence)
30 Florence
31 Florence (Day Trip to Pisa) (Rail to Rome)
1 Florence
2 Rome
3 Rome
4 Rome
5 Rome
6 Back to London for flight home! (budget flight)

Admittedly, it is a little sketchy still considering my trip is in little over 2 months time.

What we figured is that this is geographically the most sensible path to take, but anyone else any other ideas?

Also, a Eurail pass for 4 countries seems most economical compared to taking budget airlines within these places. Also, factoring the travel time to the airports, time spent in queues, checking in and out, we had better spend it sleeping in couchettes on overnight rail rides. Is this a sensible argument? Or is flying budget really more efficient?

Any comments on the number of days spent in each place? We left out Germany because it seems out of the way, and for some reason, I couldn't convince them there was anything to die for in Berlin or Germany.

Any help would be appreciated and would lift my nerves as the date draws nearer without any concrete plans!

[me]

ddx,

regarding train vs plane: those night trains are all looong! 10*12*16 hours long! shortest to longest.

well, 10 hours ain't so bad.

as for prices: add up the totals for the 3 flights and compare that total to the cost for the rail pass. [Valencia - Barcelona and Florence - Rome fares won't be nearly as high as those night trains!] to be fair, you should also add prices for hostel beds for those 3 nights.

i suspect the flights will be cheaper - but am not sure of that.

it's also true that this isn't an all or nothing question. it might be cheaper with one night train & two as flights.

first hint, it may be an option to fly Vienna - Pisa. you could look at Pisa when you get there, no longer needing a day trip from Florence? i don't know, but it might be worth looking into.

another hint: fly from London to Rome at the start of the trip, maybe even get open jaw tix - fly straight to Rome from your home airport, home from London. reverse the order of your trip.

there are at least four good reasons for this:

1. London is the most expensive city on your list. no reason to spend your wasted "Jetlag recovery time" in the most expensive city.

2. also because London is so expensive: that city is not the best 1st place to practice your low cost travel skills. better to learn in a cheaper place.

3. your flight home is via London: if, for some reason (mechanical problems, a worker's strike, whatever) your Rome - London flight is delayed, it'd be very costly to reschedule your flight home. (unless both of these flights are on the same airline, maybe even if they are, you could be SOL)

4. a non financial reason: so early in the Spring, days are short and weather is cold - they're even shorter & colder further North - colder weather requires heavier clothes. as you see below, Antoine de Saint Exupéry & i both think packing light is important. (more Northern places might be a little warmer in April than in March)


there are those who think "but, i wanna start my trip where they speak ENGLISH!" don't worry, most people in the tourist industry can speak English.

- d

[me]

dddx said:

Any comments on the number of days spent in each place? We left out Germany because it seems out of the way, and for some reason, I couldn't convince them there was anything to die for in Berlin or Germany.

this i find to be an interesting choice. You said that soccer <football> stadium visits is the raison d'etre for this trip. are all those stadiums from the 2006 World Cup of no interest?

also, if you choose to take a train from Paris to Vienna, it'd be a big detour to avoid Germany. from Paris, you'd need to go way South, like to Lyon before heading East through Italy to get to Austria without entering Germany or Switzerland <if these 2 are not included in your 4 country Eurail pass>.

i really think you would be better off with budget flights.

also, mightn't Spain be the cheapest place on your plan? if so, it might be best to start there. i suspect jetlag from Singapore to Europe could be pretty bad.

- d

[francefiend]

I'd ax Vienna altogether and stay in France / move on to Italy for those days. You'll save money on the night trains and flights.

[me]

francefiend said:

I'd ax Vienna altogether and stay in France / move on to Italy for those days. You'll save money on the night trains and flights.

must differ. Vienna is the 2nd most important city in the history of Western civilization! only Rome tops it.

[herrbert]

Overnight trains are good, IF you can sleep on them. But taking a 16 hour ride, will end up in maybe sleeping 8 hours, and looking out of the window for another 8. So I would rather suggest a 2-3 hour flight (which is max. within Europe). In my case that is the better solution, because I can't sleep on trains, and even looking out of the window for 3 or 4 hours becomes boring to me, even if it is a landscape I have never seen before.

I wonder why you would fly to Valencia? It's impossible to spend the time needed their, so it's much easier to get a flight to Barcelona, or it nothing is available to Girona. (Ryanair, flies to Girona, and calls it Barcelona).

I would then make a crossing to Rome from Barcelona, train to Florence, and then take a flight to either Paris or Vienna (my choice would be Vienna), and at the end either take the Eurostar or a cheap flight back to London, or a flight from Vienna back to London. That is if you need to return to London.

[dddx]

Thank you for the replies!

I guess I need to take a closer look at flights again. One question though. What is the best time of the day to fly? If I choose to fly in the morning, I find myself asking, how do I get to the airport so early, and can I check out of my hostel at such a time? If I fly in the afternoon, that basically means the whole day which could be spent sight seeing is wasted! If I fly in the evening, how do I find my way to my hostel if my flight lands at 9pm and I am out of the airport at 11?

herrbert, do you mean to say that Valencia is not really worth seeing? Does anyone else have anything to say about this?

[pointofnoreturn]

If I had an early flight at like 7 AM, I'd sleep in the airport or check out airport hotels. You can find good rates on some of them. Also, something else to consider is to look into whether the airport has 24-hour transportation options (i.e. Athens has a 24-hour bus going to the airport).

[me]

sleepinginairports.com/ is a place to get information about that subject.

when i've had early departures, i've slept at airports. for my flight home in 2004 i slept at Zürich airport. airport security woke me once to check id, after i showed a ticket for the morning flight, they left me alone. a guy sleeping on the next bench over had a passport from Romania, i think, but no ticket. they asked him to leave and escorted him out.

- d

pointofnoreturn said:

If I had an early flight at like 7 AM, I'd sleep in the airport

[WillTravel]

You shouldn't have a problem checking out of your hostel early. Talk to the desk the night before (or at check-in) and tell them you are leaving early. If the hostel doesn't have 24-hour reception, they will tell you where to leave your key.

If you land in a foreign city at 11 PM, then you need to know the transport options. It's sometimes the case that you can be stranded if the buses stop running and your plane is late, so you need to know if the options are available 24 hours per day. If it's an airport close to the city center, it might be worthwhile to get a taxi.

[herrbert]

dddx said:

herrbert, do you mean to say that Valencia is not really worth seeing? Does anyone else have anything to say about this?

What you should see, and what places you are drawn towards will always be a personal matter. But if I see that you take an evening flight to Valencia, that means you won't see much more of Valencia that day, then the hostel, a restaurant and maybe a quick walk through the center. If you then also choose to take the train the next day. (which also takes about 3-3,5 hours), then you basicly have only half a day to see something in Valencia, so I wonder if it is worth the effort to go Valencia, and if the time is not better spend in Barcelona. (if you also have a daytrip to Figueres planned, then you still have 3 days for Barcelona, which I think is kind of OK), If you go to Barcelona directly you gain a whole day.

I would also check on a flight between Barcelona and Paris. Vueling has flights of 50 euros, which might be much cheaper than the trainticket (+ reservation costs + fee for the couchette/bed) you could also check Easyjet, AirEuropa, Condor). But I would rather go London - Paris - Barcelona, then first fly south, and then back north.

Early / Late flights: Hostels are there because of tourists, and will have every understanding that you have to get a flight, or that you are arriving late. In both cases it would be good to drop them an email, or make a remark when you reserve the rooms, that you can arrive late (or maybe very early) Most of the times, they will ask you to give an estimated time of arrival. They are used to have people checking in and out, at the craziest times. In a lot of cities the Metro run until 1 or 2 in the morning, and starts again around 6. But it is a good idea to check busconnections to/from the airport, as those might run the entire night, or run till later, and start earlier. The ultimate solution can be a taxi, but if you need one for just one person, it's a budgetkiller, another more budgetlike solution would be to sleep at the airport. (or if you have more budget, at a motel/hotel close to the airport).

If you have a flight in the afternoon, then decide to count the day as a transport day, and everything you can see in a city is a like a bonus. From city to city, you need to count around 5-6 hours. So usualy you can have a look at a church/cathedral in the morning, and go for a first walk (to explore the territory) in the new city.

I also notice you put Liverpool and Manchester in as a daytrip from London. The to Liverpool (by Virgin trains from Euston Railway station) will already take 2,5 hours. So here you will also have only a little bit of time. You are looking at some serious travelling time for that day. (5 hours + time to get to Euston Station for a trip to/from Liverpool, not included Manchester.) In my opinion you will need the time in London, and I would suggest saving a trip to Northern England for a trip in the future.