hostels

[nitsansh]

Well... I did a further search on flights...
There are cheap flights between Amsterdam, Barcelona and Geneva with Easyjet. Easyjet also flies between Paris and Geneva. Air Lib provides cheap air connection between Paris and Pisa (for Firenze).
Therefor, I suggest you fly in and out of Barcelona (one way from/to Amsterdam, one way from/to Geneva), and also between Paris and Pisa. Take a train between Amsterdam and Paris, and between Switzerland and Firenze.
Check air fares on www.aerfares.net/index.php or the airlines websites (aerfares.net gives only the lowest fares each day. There might be more flights at slightly higher price) and find the best flights for your travel plans.

[nitsansh]

You can find fares for trains between Barcelona and Italy/Switzerland here:
www.renfe.es/ingles/viajes/precios_int_barna.html
It cost about 90 Euro (youth fare) to travel in a comfy 4-beds sleeper (turista class).
These trains travel from Barcelona on Tue, Thu and Sun only, and back on Mon, Wed and Fri.
There's a special offer of 55 Euro for the night train Barcelona-Paris if tickets are purchased until 7 days before travel. This train operates daily.
Expect to pay around 100 Euro for a 6-beds couchette on the night train Paris-Firenze.
When you compare that with air fares, remember to add travel to/from airports and accomodation, which would be about 40 Euro in case of Paris-Pisa. And also calculate taxes, credit card booking, shipping fees etc...

[georgemmj]

WE BOOKED OUR TICKETS TONIGHT! ;D

We fly into Amsterdam on Friday morning. Taking a train to Paris on Monday night. Taking the night train from Paris to Florence on Thursday night. Taking the night train from Florence to Geneva Sunday night. Fly from Geneva to Barcelona on Thursday night. Fly back to Minneapolis Sunday morning from Barcelona.

Does this sound oK? So there is no good way of seeing my friend at those resorts?

Should I have my travel agent book my point-to-point tickets as well?

Thanks again

Georgie

[nitsansh]

What did you actually book and on which dates?

FYI, Easy Jet flights Geneva-Barcelona are on mid-day. Dep. 13.00 arr. 14.25. Though it's only 1.5 hour flight, in practice you travel the whole day. If you come from a ski resort in Valais, you would have to leave at sunrise to get to the airport in time, and you'll get to downtown Barcelona shortly before sunset. Days in January are short, you know...
If you plan to fly on Thursday Jan 16, the price right now is 65CHF. It's 55CHF if you fly on Jan 15, and merely 40CHF on Jan 14... but price is not the only thing that matters... in this case the night train will cost you more but save you a valuable day for sightseeing.
If you fly to Barcelona on Thursday and out on Sunday morning that leaves just 2 days for this city. It deserves more than that.

And there's no reason to abandon your plan to visit your friend in Switzerland. So what if it's a bit difficult? If you want you can find a way to do that. If there's no train you can take a bus. If there's no hostel there are plenty of Zimmers around. There's no place in Switzerland without transportation or accomodation.

Don't worry about train reservations at this moment. Though it's possible to make reservations 2 or 3 months in advance, you can safely wait till a month ahead.

[georgemmj]

We are flying into Ams on 1/3/03 at 7:35 a.m
Departing Barcelona on 1/19/03 6:30 a.m.

So with all of your suggestions in the previous reply, how should I change?

Georgie

[nitsansh]

Well... now the question is: Do you want to make reservations in advance, and therefor secure your first choice places to stay, and make sure you travel on your most favorable times, but OTOH reduce your freedom to change plans as you go?
I wouldn't like the idea of commiting myself to a pre-set schedule so long ahead...
Also take in consideration the cost... train tickets bought and reservations made from USA cost more than those purchased in Europe... so I wouldn't recommend to do that in most cases...
Step one is Amsterdam, and that's where I'm most worried about... the first weekend of the new year is expected to be crowded than usual for this time of year...

[georgemmj]

So are you saying:

Maybe make a reservation in Amsterdam, but no where else so we have freedom? But wait to but the train tickets until we get to Europe? We want to take one day train and two night trains. We still don't need to make res. until we get there? I shouldn't make res. or at least speak to the hostels we temporarily plan on staying at?

Thanks,

Georgie, the annoying person!

[Kim]

It's up to you-depends on your travel style.

Some people like the security of plans, some like to leave it open, it depends on what you feel most comfortable with.

That said, definately make a reservation for Amsterdam-it's always full, as well as for the night trains.

You can probably wait until you get there for the night train reservations, like nitsansh said, it's more expensive to do in advance from another country than it is to show up and buy a ticket.

Kim

[georgemmj]

Thanks for all of your help Kim!

Talk to you all later, when we get back from Europe!

Georgie

[nitsansh]

What I say basically is:
Think at least twice before you make a move that is irreversible.
So before you pay any money to a travel agent or give out your credit card # on the internet or over the phone - inquire what is the policy regarding refund in case you want to cancel it later. If you can book or reserve a service (whether it's accomodation or transportation) and cancel or change it later without a penalty - there's no problem, go ahead and do it. Even make a double booking if you can get away with it... (but be honest and cancel the unused reservation, please!)
As far as I know, many hostels will allow you to cancel until few days before your arrival date, and will not charge your credit card unless you don't show up or cancel beyond this deadline.
And the penalty for no-show is normally just one-night.
Be cautious of hostels that charge your card right away.
So once again... if you can make reservation and cancel it without penalty - go ahead and do it as soon as possible...

The case with transportation is not that easy... In general rail tickets and reservations are not refundable. You can use a rail ticket on another train on the same route (for the time that the ticket is valid, which varies in different countries and ticket types), but a reservation is only valid for the specific train, and in general is not exchangeable or refundable.
There are some trains which allow refunds or changes of tickets and reservations. On these trains, you can choose between several ticket types for the same route and comfort level, which vary by the degree of flexibility. The more expensive the ticket is, the more flexible it is.
The cheapest ticket which allows no refund, no exchange, and often has restrictions on the time of travel and booking, may cost half or less of the full fare ticket which can be fully refunded and exchanged several times.
One of those trains is the Thalys which operates day trains between Paris and Amsterdam (but not the night train!).
Look at the "ticket types" pages on this website:
www.thalys.com/uk/ind_uk.htm
A similar policy exist in air travel. There are different types of tickets for the same route which vary by the flexibility degree.
Some of the no-frills airlines (such as Easyjet, Air Lib and others) allow no refund for those cheap flights once they were booked. If they allow you to change to another date or time, you pay a penalty, or pay the new price which is normally higher.
As a rule, allways check the rules regarding refunds and exchanges before you complete the booking and give out your credit card #.

[georgemmj]

Thanks Nit........all of that information is useful. Thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks. I don't know what I would do without you'll!

[nitsansh]

I see that Kim agrees that you should make reservation for a hostel in Amsterdam...
Another place I would consider making reservation is Firenze, especially if you happend to be there on the weekend... (which is what expected if you travel there after Amsterdam and Paris).
Though Firenze is not as popular as Amsterdam or Paris, it has a rather small supply of hostels, I think about 5-6 or so...
Paris is among the most popular cities (the top 4 are London, Paris, Rome, Amsterdam), but has about 30 hostels to choose from, and there should be no risk that you won't find vacancy in at least one of them. Still, if you want a specific hostel, you better reserve it.
Do you need a place to stay in Barcelona, or your relatives will take care of that?
As to accomodation in Switzerland... you can't make any move yet until you know which resort your friend is going to be, and IIRC, you said on another thread that it won't be until early December, isn't it? After she gets there and settles down, I assume she could help you with info on accomodation and transportation in that specific place. Also, she should know better what date and time would be better for you to meet her... As an instructor in a ski school, I guess she would be busy most of the days... there's no sense that you get there and don't have the time to see her, isn't it?
So I would leave that part of the trip as open as possible until you get this info. I believe that mid December will still be a good time to book accomodation and transportation...
Now... there are 2 sections which you should consider whether to fly or take the night train... Paris to Firenze and Geneva to Barcelona... as I noted in the case of Geneva-Barcelona, you actually waste a full day if you take the plane... according to my calculation, you should take a train from Valais at about 9AM to get to Geneva airport by 11AM for the 1PM flight. If you need to take a bus from a ski resort to meet the train to Geneva, you would leave even earlier... you'll land at Barcelona airport at 2.30 PM and it may take another hour to get to downtown.
If you take the night train, you would leave the Valais in the afternoon and get to Barcelona the next morning, and therefor spend very little of "quality time" on the road...
You can board this train at Bern or Lausanne - whichever will be closer to the place you stay. The train has "global price", which means you pay the same price no matter which station you take it.
I didn't do the same research on the Paris-Firenze route, but I believe that unless it's early morning or late evening flight, it will consume most of the day. In this case, you should travel a longer distance from Pisa airport to Firenze, which I estimate at 1.5-2 hours. Though the difference in price looks very big at first (28E vs about 100E), if you take all the costs in consideration, it's no more than 30-35E.
And if you choose to prefer the time saving that night trains offer, the option of a rail pass comes to consideration...
There's a website that should help you find out if a railpass is good for you... go to www.railsaver.com/railsaver.asp
Put the data of your trip and see what comes out...
One thing should be noted: Since your trip is in 2003, there may be slightly different prices of rail tickets and passes. They usually increase on each calendar year, but passes and tickets bought in the previous year should be valid for the new year.
But new passes are expected in 2003, and you better ask a travel agent about that... as of now, the pass that covers your entire journey (Amsterdam-Paris-Firenze-Switzerland-Barcelona) is Europass+Benelux Youth 5-days, which IIRC cost 296$. Once again, there's no need to hurry... it takes just a few days to order and recieve a rail pass, so you can safely wait till mid-December... why should you pay now if you can do that in December?

[georgemmj]

So I went to book reservations at the Flying Pig Downtown Amsterdam. They don't have 2 beds the 1st night, only the second two nights. So is there a difference if we stay at the Flying Pig Palace? Is it way out of the way from things? We want to be close to night life...what is the best hostel/hotel to stay in? Thanks Georgie

[nitsansh]

As far as I remember, the Palace is just about 2 KM from downtown Amsterdam, near Vondelpark.
You can check location and see reviews on this site:
www.amsterdamhotspots.nl/core.html
It also has lot of good information, and virtually everything you need to know in A'dam...

[nitsansh]

The 2 flying Pigs are under the same management, and are both considered laid-back, backpackers-friendly hostels. No wonder they are popular, and alreadt full for early January.
Hotspots guide describe the Palace as the better of the two.
The distance to downtown is even less than 2KM, so there's nothing to worry about.
See the map:
www.amsterdamhotspots.nl/map.html
Vondelpark is the green spot at the bottom-left corner (#6).
Other key locations are: Centraal train station at #1. Dam square at #2. Red light district at #11. This is downtown.
Central A'dam is defined by the 4 horse-shue shaped canals which circle the old city. Vondelpark is just off the center. If the weather is fine, you can walk to the old town in about half-hour.
As you can see, the entire map is just 2KM from end to end.
The hostels review page, in case you missed it, is here:
www.amsterdamhotspots.nl/sleephostels.html