Itinerary suggestions?

[davidva]

Just found this board...some good advice here.

I need suggestions for my itinerary for May/June 2007. I realize it might be kind of tight for a lot, if not everyone's, taste, but I'm generally a pretty energetic person who just enjoys being in the city, walking around, and seeing the people rather than actually going inside a lot of places. Aside from where I've specified, I will probably be going from city to city via Eurail, and I'm going to try to leave each place before 10 am.

5/7 DC to London
5/8 London to Stockholm
5/9 Stockholm
5/10 Stockholm to Copenhagen
5/11 Copenhagen
5/12 Copenhagen to Berlin via plane, to Prague via train
5/13 Prague
5/14 Prague
Overnight train to Budapest
5/15 Budapest
5/16 Budapest
Overnight train to Munich
5/17 Munich
5/18 Munich
Overnight train to Venice
5/19 Venice
5/20 Venice to Florence
5/21 Florence
5/22 Florence to Rome
5/23 Rome
5/24 Rome
5/25 Rome
5/26 Rome to Geneva via plane, to Bern via train
5/27 Bern
5/28 Bern to Interlake via train, to Gimmelwald via whatever
5/29 Gimmelwald....leave late afternoon to Geneva, then overnight train to Barcelona
5/30 Barcelona
5/31 Barcelona to Madrid
6/1 Madrid
Overnight to Paris
6/2 Paris
6/3 Paris
6/4 Paris
6/5 Paris to Brussels or Brugge
6/6 Brussels or Brugge to London
6/7 London
6/8 London to Glasgow
6/9 Glasgow to Edinburgh
6/10 Edinburgh to Highland tour
6/11 Highland tour
6/12 Highland tour to Edinburgh
6/13 Edinburgh to Dublin via plane
6/14 Dublin
6/15 Dublin to London via plane to DC

Taking a bunch of people's advice, this is actually the edited version. I started out with about 10 more cities and was literally in a new city every day except for 2 or 3 cities. Quickly trashed that idea.

Noticeable absent cities: Berlin, Amsterdam, and Krakow...been to all of them long enough already to not "need" to go back. I've also already been to London for quite a while, I just want to go back for a day or so to hit up a few pubs on the outskirts of town.

I would like for this to be considered "do-able," but if it's not, then it's not, and I'll understand. Here are my questions:

Getting into Prague...I know about getting the ticket at the border since the CR isn't covered by the Eurail pass. Does it literally stop at the border to get tickets, or will I be getting that pass in Berlin?

Venice/Florence...is one so much better than the other that I should just sacrifice all of one's days and stay in the other city? Same question for Barcelona/Madrid, and Glasgow/Edinburgh.

I searched for threads on Bern and didn't find any. Is there a reason why it's never talked about? I thought the pictures of it were amazing, and the scenery and stereotypical small Swiss town is all I'm going to Switzerland for (I know Bern probably isn't small).

Paris...Everyone recommends at least 4 or 5 days. Honestly though, I'm a lot more amped about 75% of the other cites than Paris, and the only reason I'm going there at all is because I think it would be stupid to not go there for at least two days on a trip like this when I've never been, plus it's on the way to the UK from Spain anyway. Should I listen to my instinct and take off a day or two and apply them elsewhere, or should I take everyone's advice and stick with what I've got?

Lastly, a language question. Will being close to fluent in Spanish get me by with people in France or Italy that don't speak English?

Any other advice would be greatly appreciated!

Sorry for a ton of questions and the long winded approach.

Thanks!

[me]

quick thoughts:

why not Copenhagen straight to Prague, via plane? if not spending time in Berlin, why fly there?

wouldn't a flight from Rome to Basel, train from Basel to Bern be faster? or, am i missing something?

[davidva]

When I searched for flights from Copenhagen to Prague, the carriers either didn't have that flight or were ridiculously expensive. I'm going to keep looking, though. I would much rather take a straight flight, as you suggested, if I could find a flight for less than $50-60 USD. And I've actually just decided to just do an overnight train from Rome to Bern.

I've also convinced myself to just stay in Barcelona instead of going to Madrid. Less train time/rides spent from eurail/money. And I scratched Glasgow in favor of staying in Edinburgh. I'm trying hard to convince myself that I should abandon Stockholm/Copenhagen and apply those days elsewhere, and just save Scandinavia as a starting point for a future trip throughout all of Eastern Europe. Don't know if I'll be able to do that much convincing though.

[pointofnoreturn]

davidva said:

When I searched for flights from Copenhagen to Prague, the carriers either didn't have that flight or were ridiculously expensive. I'm going to keep looking, though. I would much rather take a straight flight, as you suggested, if I could find a flight for less than $50-60 USD. And I've actually just decided to just do an overnight train from Rome to Bern.

I've also convinced myself to just stay in Barcelona instead of going to Madrid. Less train time/rides spent from eurail/money. And I scratched Glasgow in favor of staying in Edinburgh. I'm trying hard to convince myself that I should abandon Stockholm/Copenhagen and apply those days elsewhere, and just save Scandinavia as a starting point for a future trip throughout all of Eastern Europe. Don't know if I'll be able to do that much convincing though.

Abandoning the Stockholm/Copenhagen cities might be a good idea. I heard it's notoriously expensive there and you might save it for a future trip and spend more days in your favourite cities that you want to go to.

[madamtrashheap]

davidva, welcome!

David makes some valid comments about travel methods/directions that are well worth considering. They'll save time (and money) and allow you to tweak your itinerary a little more.

Here are a few more musings that will hopefully help with your planning:

1. It's "do-able" but as you note, a bit rushed. As long as you're aware of this, and it is your trip after all, you'll be fine. Travelling by train will involve a lot of scenery without the chance to wander in it, but that's a nice thing about train travel sometimes.
2.Cities for walking around in without going inside anywhere - Venice is almost made for this type of sightseeing; Florence is pretty to wander in, but make a concession and go inside either the Uffizi, Accademmia, Duomo or, for something a little different and small, either Santa Croce church or the Medici Chapel - beautiful artwork and not too crowded. The Bargello musuem is good for that too; Dublin; Bern; Budapest; Edingburgh; sitting in one spot in these cities is also a great way to get a feel for people
3. "Venice/Florence...is one so much better than the other that I should just sacrifice all of one's days and stay in the other city? Same question for Barcelona/Madrid, and Glasgow/Edinburgh." That's are hard one as all the cities you mention have their own unique attractions - any reason you're not sure about these places?
Venice vs Florence - Venice can be happily seen with a full day, but 2 full days will let you explore other islands such as Burano. Florence (and I'm v biased here) warrants 2 full days at least, but again, if you're not going inside any musuems (or only one/two) then catching an early train from Venice to Florence with give you a day and a half. Plus the Eurostar Italia from Florence to Rome is only 1hr30mins (or so), so you could even sneak extra time in either Florence or Rome by altering your departure time.
Barcelona vs Madrid (sounds like a great football match!)- both are gorgeous cities for different reasons. Again, I don't know that you've left much time in either place. That overnight train to Barcelona is long from that neck of the woods so if your heart's not set on that journey by train, perhaps go Gimmelwald/Interlaken area back to Zurich by train, then fly to either Barcelona or Madrid to gain extra time in the city.
Glasgow vs Edinburgh - if you have to make a choice, go with Edinburgh as their is more to see walking around the city. Glasgow has a great nightlife (bars, pubs, comedy clubs, theatre), but so too does Edingburgh with the added bonus of good sightseeing. I've always enjoyed my times in Glasgow, but it's not everyone's choice and if you've not been to either, choose Edinburgh as your first experience. Are you flying or training from London to Scotland?
4. Paris - is a gorgeous city, again if you're not into musuems, walkiing around that city is one of the best ways to experience it (doggy droppings and all!); do a bit of research as to what interests you there (museums, sights, cafes, clubs, etc) and you'll probably be pleasantly surprised as to what's on offer. That will help with how much time to spend here, although I think the time you've allotted is spot on.
5. Language - Spanish will obviously work in Spain and you'll understand a lot of Italian (esp Venice for some reason!), but Spanish in France, other than around Montpellier, won't help with much other than reading. You'll be fine pretty much everywhere if you learn a few basic words of each language (please, thank you, numbers, food - esp for allergies/dislikes) as English is spoken/understood fairly well in most of the places you're going. As long as you don't just assume that everyone speaks English, even though this is often the case, you'll be OK. Good luck learning Hungarian! ;D

And that should just about do it for now! See what you come up with and get back to us.

PS - just saw your other posts (took too long to write mine!), so see you're getting on track. Good point to consider about Scandi - there are many more places to explore than just Copenhagen and Stockholm if you wanted to dedicate a whole other trip to it.

[me]

is US$68.40, including tax, too rich for your blood? <at today's exchange rate> www.sterling.dk/ flys that route.

davidva said:

When I searched for flights from Copenhagen to Prague, the carriers either didn't have that flight or were ridiculously expensive. I'm going to keep looking, though. I would much rather take a straight flight, as you suggested, if I could find a flight for less than $50-60 USD.

[davidva]

For the city vs. city comparisons...There really isn't any reason I was unsure of each city, as I would really like to go to all of them. I just know I have a very limited amount of time in each of those areas and would rather get a good feel for one of the two cities rather than a slight feel for both cities and the train. I'll probably stick with Barc. and Edin. and still split time between Venice and Florence.

I should be OK with the language stuff. I just wanted to know if I'd be able to communicate to people without using too much English. As far as Hungarian goes, my great granddad's parents, who were from Budapest, didn't speak a bit of English. He is still fluent, so I'm going to get him to teach me whatever I need to know before I leave.

And for museums and such....I really enjoy seeing historical things, whether it's in museums or not, and especially looking at buildings (i.e.- staring at the Coliseum for an hour). And I really like finding cool off-the-beaten path side streets that are still in the city. I'm just one of those people who doesn't understand/care for art very much, and would never go into an art museum unless I was with someone who wanted to.

Thanks for all the tips. I'll definitely check into stuff and play around with my itinerary some more.

me said:

is US$68.40, including tax, too rich for your blood? <at today's exchange rate> www.sterling.dk/ flys that route.

not at all. If I decide to stick with Copenhagen I'll definitely jump on that. Thanks.

[madamtrashheap]

davidva said:

As far as Hungarian goes, my great granddad's parents, who were from Budapest, didn't speak a bit of English. He is still fluent, so I'm going to get him to teach me whatever I need to know before I leave.

How cool is that!?! So much for that issue! That's that hardest bit taken care of! ;D

Fair point about not wanting to visit the art musuems - you can keep yourself well occupied wandering around cities. And yes, totally get the part about staring at the Colosseum for an hour - love it! Go inside the Pantheon in Rome too - you'll be in this tiny building for ages I bet.

I will recommend, though, that you take the time to pick out one or two of the major European museums in the cities you visit and check them out - if for nothing else than to experience the size & scope of the collections in some of them. Once you've worked out a firmer itinerary, let us know and we'll be able to suggest which ones not to miss, based on your brief about "off the beaten path" stuff.

Happy planning!

[me]

if buildings interest you, i'd suggest Barcelona, then Seville over Madrid. also, Vienna has some impressive structures.

the Cologne Cathedral might interest you, as well.

[herrbert]

Vienna sure has some impressive buildings (Schönbrunn, Karlskirche, Votivkirche, Hofburg, MuseumQuartier), but also some hidden Jugendstill gems (e.g. buildings by Otto Wagner), and some modern architecture that is great (Hundertwasserhaus, is just one of them).

I know some people will disagree, but I am really loving Madrid. (I have a friend living there, so I can spend a lot of time there, from time to time. In fact I am just back from Madrid). The people there are really friendly, and if you are really fluent in Spanish than, you will have a great time there. As for buildings, there is a lot to see a well. It also gives you an opportunity to get on a bus and visit places like Toledo (1hrs), and Segovia (1 1/2hrs) (I think that if you are staying in Madrid, both are worth a day). Both are really beautiful, and not to be missed.

[davidva]

I REALLY wanted to go to Vienna, and I had it on my original itinerary. But when it came down to it and I had to cut a bunch of cities, it was one of either Prague, Budapest, or Vienna (I kind of divided my trip up into "sections" and considered those three cities a section). See my above post for why I'm going to Budapest, and Prague is.....Prague. I'm not giving that city up.

I wanted to spend a lot of time in Spain, too. But it was pretty much only so I could finally be somewhere and not have to speak English at all (though I know I'll have a horrible time with the Spain spanish accent), whereas I actually wanted to see a lot of stuff in other places. But, again, that was the city I ended up axing from that particular section of the trip. The final straw for that city was when I asked a professor of mine (who has spent a lot of time in Spain) if he prefers Madrid or Barcelona. He pretty much yelled at me for even considering Barcelona over Madrid.

Oh well, Scandinavia, Austria, and a thorough tour of Spain will have to wait for another trip. They aren't going anywhere.

[davidva]

Here's an updated itinerary, which will be pretty close to a final one. I've already bought my big tickets (NY to London, Dublin to NY), and will probably be buying my smaller tickets and a train pass within the next few weeks. Just wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts/suggestions before I go ahead and buy the rest of my tickets.

I was able to talk a few friends into going for two weeks, but their window of opportunity is real small, and they only wanted to see paris/rome, so that accounts for Barcelona getting squeezed into a weird spot, and not between those two cities. One also wanted to see Amsterdam, but since I've already been, I told him I was only going to go for two days. So that accounts for the small time there.

5/7 - 5/11- Barcelona (4.5 days, 5 nights)

5/12- earliest flight to Budapest

5/12- 5/16- Budapest (4.5 days, 4 nights)

night of 5/16- Overnight train to Prague

5/17- 5/21- Prague (5 days, 4 nights)

night of 5/21- Overnight train to Munich

5/22- 5/24- Munich (3 days, 3 nights)

5/25- earliest flight to Rome (might change this to overnight train on 5/24)

5/25-5/29- Rome (5 days, 5 nights) (probable day trip to Pompeii sometime)

5/30- earliest flight to Paris

5/30-6/3- Paris (4.5 days, 5 nights) (probable day trip to Versailles sometime)

6/4- flight or train to amsterdam (whichever is faster)

6/4-6/5- Amsterdam (1.5-2 days, 2 nights)

6/6- earliest flight to Edinburgh

6/6-6/8- Edinburgh (2.5 days, 3 nights)

6/9-6/11- Highland tour (3 days, 2 nights)

6/12- earliest flight to Dublin

6/12-6/14- Dublin (2.5 days, 3 nights)

6/15- fly home

I decided against a 3 day stint in Florence in favor of adding days to Prague/Budapest/Munich. I'll be spending a full day in the Louvre in Paris, and that will be about all the art I can take, and I feel like that is the overwhelming majority of what is offered in Florence. Smart idea/bad idea?

Thanks!

[me]

between Munich & Rome, there's Austria's beautiful city of Innsbruck.

if you don't want to spend much time there, you could take a morning train from Munich to Innsbruck and spend the day there before boarding the night train for Rome.

[madamtrashheap]

davidva said:

I decided against a 3 day stint in Florence in favor of adding days to Prague/Budapest/Munich. I'll be spending a full day in the Louvre in Paris, and that will be about all the art I can take, and I feel like that is the overwhelming majority of what is offered in Florence. Smart idea/bad idea?

It's a shame that you decided against staying in Florence - there's more to the city than art - but you can always save it for another trip ('cause there will be more I'm sure!). Here's an idea, why not have one "art day" and explore both the Louvre and Musee d'Orsay. It's also an incredible museum of scupture and paintings, mainly of the Impressionist era, and the building itself is great from the inside too (great views from the top floor balcony outside the cafe too!). You need a cut lunch, compass and about 3 months to see everything in the Louvre, so perhaps pick out the exhibitions/departments that interest you and leave some time for Musee d'Orsay, or even the Orangerie. Breakfast in the gardens at Musee Rodin is not only lovely, but also covers the art side too! In the Louvre, you could concentrate on, say, the Denon gallery (home to Mona Lisa and the Renaissance paintings), the Greek/Roman/Etruscan antiquities and the Egyptian Room, which will take a good part of a day then go over the river to Musee d'Orsay and wander through there. But do keep in mind, the Louvre is closed on Tuesdays and Musee d'Orsay is closed on Mondays, so don't schedule your visits then. And on the day that one is closed, the other gets pretty busy.

Actually, while I'm on it, check the dates for things like Ascension Day (sometime in May), Whitsunday/Pentacost, Republic Day in Italy, etc as these are public holidays in many parts of Europe and many shops/sites close on these days.

[davidva]

madamtrashheap said:

It's a shame that you decided against staying in Florence - there's more to the city than art - but you can always save it for another trip ('cause there will be more I'm sure!).

Ha, I noticed your avatar is of Florence.

Yeah, I have an extremely long list of cities that I'll probably break into two more trips. Being last of the cities to get cut this time, it will probably be first priority next time.

Since I'll have a few people with me in Paris (as opposed to being solo in most other places), EVERYTHING is on the itinerary for that city. I'll definitely look into trying to get to those places in a day, as well as checking for closings on those holidays you mentioned. Thanks for the tips.