Eurotrip Nov-Feb

[antoine]

Hey Guys, i ve been reading a lot of the forums and thought I'd get your feedback on my planned trip, some flights are already purchased so are pretty much set in stone. 50-odd days before i leave can't wait, but sooo busy with Uni at the moment.

Any comments would be great, ive been reading Lonely planet guide for Western Europe Heaps, and found its helped a lot.

Leave Melbourne(aus) on the 19th (booked)

City Days Dates
Paris 7 20/11/2006 -26/11/2006
Brussels 6 27/11/2006 -2/12/2006
Amster 4 3/12/2006 -6/12/2006
Stuttgard 2 7/12/2006 -8/12/2006
Munich 4 9/12/2006 -12/12/2006
Berlin 4 13/12/2006 -16/12/2006
Prague 6 17/12/2006 -22/12/2006
Vienna 4 23/12/2006 -26/12/2006
Geneva 2 27/12/2006 -28/12/2006
Rome 6 29/12/2006 -3/01/2007
Nice 3 4/01/2007 -6/01/2007
Barca 5 7/01/2007 -11/01/2007
Valencia 4 12/01/2007 -15/01/2007
Granada 1 16/01/2007 -16/01/2007
Seville 4 17/01/2007 -20/01/2007
Cordoba 1 21/01/2007 -21/01/2007
Madrid 5 22/01/2007 -26/01/2007
Lisbon 6 27/01/2007 -1/02/2007
Dublin 5 2/02/2007 -6/02/2007
London 4 7/02/2007 -10/02/2007
Leave London on the 11th, fun 22hr flight

ive already booked a flight from geneva - rome (easyjet) to spend NYE there, booked flights from lisbon - dublin, and dublin - london (both aerlingus) and well as my flights to Europe and back

Im also a keen football fan and have planned dates to coincide with matches played in those cities (stuttgart, berlin, barcelona, valencia, madrid, lisbon, london(pray i get arsenal tix)

I plan to Eurail most of the trip. (15day + Czech pass)

Im also 20, and can speak above basic French, well enough to get around (but maybe without the accent lol).

Cheers Anthony

[pointofnoreturn]

Paris 7 20/11/2006 -26/11/2006 7 days is quite a lot... Paris is really expensive. I'm only staying for 4 nights and the last being at the airport due to an early flight. But whatever floats your boat!

Brussels 6 27/11/2006 -2/12/2006 Gah, 6 days!!! I've heard not-so-fab reviews about Brussels. Apparently Brugges is the spot. Maybe 2 days in Brussels and 2 days in Brugges?

Amster 4 3/12/2006 -6/12/2006 Very reasonable for 4 days!

Stuttgard 2 7/12/2006 -8/12/2006
Munich 4 9/12/2006 -12/12/2006

Berlin 4 13/12/2006 -16/12/2006 4 days is good as well

Prague 6 17/12/2006 -22/12/2006
Vienna 4 23/12/2006 -26/12/2006
Geneva 2 27/12/2006 -28/12/2006

Rome 6 29/12/2006 -3/01/2007 6 days is perfect for Rome. You could take a daytrip to Pompeii via Naples and see the ruins and then be back by late evening!

Nice 3 4/01/2007 -6/01/2007
Barca 5 7/01/2007 -11/01/2007
Valencia 4 12/01/2007 -15/01/2007
Granada 1 16/01/2007 -16/01/2007
Seville 4 17/01/2007 -20/01/2007
Cordoba 1 21/01/2007 -21/01/2007
Madrid 5 22/01/2007 -26/01/2007
Lisbon 6 27/01/2007 -1/02/2007
Dublin 5 2/02/2007 -6/02/2007

London 4 7/02/2007 -10/02/2007 Hmm... a bit tricky here. I personally like it when people stay for 5 nights. London's so huge that you might not cover the things you want to see in the amount of time unless you know what you're exactly doing.

Suggestions:

Take a few days off Prague and Brussels and apply them to London and another city? I don't know.... I'm relatively new to all this stuff but I think you'll be changing your itinerary from time to time anyways!

Edit - Also make sure you book the accomodations ahead of time since you are travelling around the holidays, which is a popular time to travel for locals and non-locals!

[pointofnoreturn]

P.S. Buy Let's Go as well. I find it better than Lonely Planet. Having two guidebooks will help you in your planning. It did for me.

[crystal]

I've got to agree about Paris to me 7 days would have me pulling my hair out. I didn't really like it. However alot of people on here really like Paris and would shoot me for saying this.

Agree with comments about Rome and Amsterdam you have a good number of days for these cities.

[antoine]

Thanks for the replies. Cant really change the London situation, already booked the flights going in to and out of there. Also the reason i want to spend time in Paris is beacuse ive spent the last year learning French and i want to visit Dineyland (when i was young we went to Lourdes, France we were bad so my parents never took us to Disneyland when we returned to Paris) lol

[herrbert]

A lot of people plan their trip in a way that they don't take time to relax, or give themselves too little time for each city. I think you are spot-on for most but I will make a few remarks:

7 days for Paris - like said before, is a bit much, 4-5 days will do If you are planning to see a lot of things (like museums), and you want to take your time to recover from Jetlag, then 7 is alright for you.

6 days Brussels: Why Brussels and why so many days? (I can't be the football I think there are some alternative that might be better. (Brugge / Gent). I think 2 days for Brugge and 1 or 2 for Gent and 1 or 2 for Brugge would make a more interesting choice. (read the Brussels/Brugge topic for more info).

4 days Amsterdam: 2 or 3 days would do just as well (unless you like the coffeeshops). if you stay for 4 days, then daytrips can be made to Haarlem, the Hague, Utrecht (and even Maastricht could be an option). And if you see, a guy dressed almost the same as Santa Claus, and some black helpers (zwarte pieten), then you are watching our version of Santa Claus (Sinterklaas or St. Nicolas), it celebrated on the 5th of December. (shops might close earlier on that day, like 16.00 or 18.00)

If you want to go by train between Amsterdam and Stuttgart, take into account it's a 5 to 6 hour trip (at least!). It passes Cologne, so it might be good (if possible, with reservations and all) to take a break here, and take a look into the Cathedral (the Dom), that is right outside the trainstation!.

Stuttgart: never been there, and I am not sure if I ever would because there is not a lot to be found, that is not to be found somewhere else.

4 days for Munich (München) and Berlin are fine.
6 days of Prague, might be a little bit too much (4 would do fine)
4 days of Vienna (spending Christmas in Vienna - I am Jealous)

Geneva you have already booked (so no changes can be made). Rome for 6 days - perfect (even time for a daytrip to Pompei)

I think the French part (Nice) looks good (or nice), as does the beginning of the Spanish trip. However if it's possible I would do Valencia in 2 or 3 days (on what day is the football match?), and add the day you save to Granada (and remember Valencia-Granada is not a short trip).

Sevilla maybe one day less (and add it to Madrid in order to be able to visit Toledo and Segovia as daytrips from Madrid).

Cordoba, one day (if you need to travel on this day as well it might be too short).

Madrid: 5 days is fine, but maybe one day more, give you time to see the city, and gives you time to also visit Toledo and Segovia. (those town are 1 - 1 1/2 hrs by bus/train). if you like museums. I have one tip: a couple of the museums have free entrance on Sundays and are opened on that day until 14.30.

If you travel by train or bus to Lisbon, do make a stop in Caceres for one day (take one day less in Lisbon). The old city of Caceres is beautiful (a Unesco-site).

Maybe Lisbon could do with one or two days less. (but it might be the last days of good weather, so that can be a reason to stay a little longer)

Dublin/London is already booked, but I have to agree with pointofnoreturn that 4 days for London is really short. If you go to see Arsenal (tickets are very expensive), get out of the metro as the last person. It gives you some time to look at the paintings (uhm very welldone graffiti) when you walk out of the Arsenal metrostation.

I think you have some room in you shedule, to change some dates, and to see some other places aswell. Some as daytrips added to the city you are staying in, maybe others as extras.

Happy Planning!

[pointofnoreturn]

Another thing, if you're really set on spending 7 days in Paris and you don't have a choice but to use the 7 days, maybe you can take 2 day trips outside of the city within your time period (i.e. Versailles and perhaps another small city like Normandy, etc... I don't know. You'll have to check your guidebooks. They usually list possible daytrips for each country/city in the book).

[antoine]

Once again thanks a lot guys, esp herrbert & pointofnoreturn

So looks like a week in Paris is a no-go, hmmm are you all American??? lol just kidding.

For Brussels i was thinking 1 day in Ghent, 2day in Brugges, Brussels 3 days, with a side trip to Luven on one day. (just didnt write it).... Why Luven? Stella Artois lol And its definately not for Football lol i mean look at Anderlecht in the Champions Leauge, but i see no Ajax or Feyernood or AZ. Well if your a PSV supporter you've got me beat herrbert lol

That Sants Claus thing is cool, only ever heard about the xmas markets in Germany. And no not really interested in coffeeshops that much.

My reason for Stuttgart is an obsession with Porsche, and they have the meseum there. They also have the Mercedes meseum there as well. But i am going there solely for Porsche and their football team plays on that Friday night.

Ive booked a place to stay for Xmas (Christmas) and i can spend less time at places at the start of my trip. So does it look like another place in Germany is on the boards??? I have family friends in Frankfurt, also Hamburg looks like a place i would be interested in visiting. Orrrrr going to Denmark(Copenhagen), would that be too much??? Mate went there last holidays and loved the place.

Also after Rome everything is really flexible, i just need to be in Lisbon on the 2nd Febuary to catch a flight, so will definately take your advice into consideration. Also start of the trip is flexible until Viena. Can always fly/bus Madrid - Lisbon.

Mum really really wants me to visit Fatima so i guess that will take a day out of Lisbon, and will also probably go to Sinatra and Caceres. Benfica play on the 28th so i want to be in Lisbon for that (biggest membership, but they dont sell out, how funny lol)

like to comment on the last bit of good weather in Lisbon, lol especailly London, should buy a raincoat, umbrella and gumboots to be prepared lol

once again, THANK YOU EVERYONE only 47 more days now! (not like im counting

[WillTravel]

I think a week in Paris is great. But of course it's always a trade-off to stay for longer in one place and then miss another place. But the more I travel, the more I appreciate longer stays.

[herrbert]

France is a great place, but the people that live there (aka the French) are a little bit ... weird. (not of of them but a lot).

I am no fan of the clubs you mention, but sometimes I see a match from Vitesse in Arnhem.

Leuven might do for a nice daytrip from Brussels.

Copenhagen could do nice for 2 or 3 days, but it is really a lot like Amsterdam. But it would also mean a big detour, as you are heading south to Stuttgart/Munich. From Amsterdam you could travel to Maastricht, and stay there for one day, then travel across the border to Germany and visit Cologne.

Other places that can be interesting and are more or less on-route: Mainz (some people prefer it above Frankfurt) and Rothenburg. Some people really like the Eiffel-area (a lot of castle and ruines, and small places in the Hills. (don't try the local wine)

I presume that you have already taken a look at the castles (Neuschwanstein) as a daytrip from Munich?

In Portugal you could also make the decision to visit Porto for 2 days.

[antoine]

hey hey

just when i think ive got a pretty good plan (trust me been thinking about this trip for over a year, changing and changing, something new comes up lol) i didnt even consider Copenhagen cos it wasnt in my guide book, but neither is Prague but its a must see(Prague).

Also is Brussels the Canberra of Europe? (hope someone gets that joke hehe)

So here we go. Ive decided to do the opposite and spend even longer in France, i doubt ill stay in paris the whole time, Versailes, Dineyland (2days), ill spend one day fighting jetlag after flying 24odd hours because i land 9am, I will also probably head to Bordeaux beacuse i have some friends there (and a nice person who offered me a place at chez elle(her house).

It also allows me to use Madrid-Lisbon overnight trip on my rail pass. And the time in France will allow me to improve my French heaps.

So here we go....

cities nights dates
Paris 8 20/11/2006 27/11/2006
Brugges 2 28/11/2006 29/11/2006
Brussels & Luven 2 30/11/2006 1/12/2006
Amsterdam 3 2/12/2006 4/12/2006
Copenhagen 3 5/12/2006 7/12/2006 *one day on train
Stuttgart 3 8/12/2006 10/12/2006 *one day on train
Munich 4 11/12/2006 14/12/2006
Berlin 4 15/12/2006 18/12/2006
Prague 4 19/12/2006 22/12/2006
Vienna 4 23/12/2006 26/12/2006
Geneva 2 27/12/2006 28/12/2006*one day on train, fly out on 29th
Rome 6 29/12/2006 3/01/2007*overnight to Nice
Nice 3 4/01/2007 6/01/2007*one day on train to Barca
Barca 5 7/01/2007 11/01/2007
Valencia 3 12/01/2007 14/01/2007*overnight to granada
Granada 2 15/01/2007 16/01/2007
Seville 3 17/01/2007 19/01/2007
Cordoba 1 20/01/2007 20/01/2007
Madrid 6 21/01/2007 26/01/2007*overnight to lisbon
Lisbon 6 27/01/2007 1/02/2007
Dublin 5 2/02/2007 6/02/2007
London 4 7/02/2007 10/02/2007
leave London on the 11th

P.S also have my Backpack(macpac gemini) on laybuy or "layaway", waiting for a new one to come in. Its getting exciting!!!!

Thanks again to EVERYONE, definately helped out a lot

[pointofnoreturn]

Are you flying between any cities or taking strictly the train the entire time?

[herrbert]

Hey Antoine,

I see you are making some changes. I know it can be a like a big puzzle to get everything together.

Just some remarks:

if you take the overnight train from Madrid to Lisbon, you are passing Caceres (I think you even have to change trains here). My suggestion would be to take a train in the morning at Madrid-Atocha, and see Caceres. stay there for one night, and travel further to Lisbon the next morning.

Paris - Bordeaux is quite a trip. (3 hours by TGV is the quickest I can find, but a normal train will take a lot longer).

Pointofnoreturn (nice avatar btw) has a good remark:

try to investigate if it wouldn't save you a lot of time to take a flight (esp. on the longer journeys). unless you are a train-enthousiast, I don't know so many people that like to be on a train for so long.
München - Berlin will take a train about 7 hours, a plane will do the same in just over 1 hours (check http://www.flydba.com) and it will get you there for 39.77 on several flights on 15th of january.

[antoine]

Cheers once again

...thinking about it Copenhagen is way too much trouble unless i was flying (Sterling doesnt go Stuttgart), so guess i'll probably go Hamburg/Cologne instead. I now see what you mean by Masstiacht - Cologne looks good.

My reason for trains is simple........$$$ i am flying from geneva - rome to ensure i am in Rome before new years eve. Also flying Lisbon -Dubin, Dublin-London.

But i see your point about Mun-Ber, and the flights are about 100aussie for the 15th of December, not bad at all, and i save six hours. Ill look at Mr Lonely Planey today for Caceras.

Also tried to apply to get Tickets to Feyernood, but sadly the email address keeps sending rejections. I seriously am not willing to pay the 100Euro to see Ajax (as they have a package on their website), but would considering seeing AZ. So Herrberrt any info you could gime me there would help alot. I've had a look at crowd attendances for AZ and it looks by best bet for tickets.

You guys are a great help

[pointofnoreturn]

That's a good idea to skip Copenhagen. You could save that for another trip! Hopefully you'll be able to snag the tickets you've been trying to get. Don't fret - they usually pop out of nowhere so keep trying!