3-4 Months Europe

[tom455]

Hi All;

Fairly new to this travelling/backpacking, but Im looking to head out for 3-4 months (as the subject suggests). Ive travelled South east asia before backpacking and that wasnt a problem. Anyways can you let me know if Im trying to pack to much into not enough time. Id like to see as much of Europe as possible as Im travelling from Australia which is quite a distance.

Please make suggestions on whether Id be better off dropping certain countries/cities or adding others in, or if the order Im planning to travel isnt the best.

I know its a lot, even if you comment on particular countries/routes itd be much appreciated.

# indicates days. Ill have extra days up my sleave for places I fancy and others for travelling time.

England
- London 3

France
- Paris 3
- Bordeaux 2

Spain
- Madrid 3

Portugal
- Porto 2
- Lisbon 3

Spain
- Sevilla 2
- Valencia 2
- Barcelona 3

France
- Marseille 2

Italy
- Florence 2
- Rome 3
- Venice 2
- Milan 2

Switzerland
- Geneva 2
- Bern 3

Germany
- Munich 3
- Stuttgart 2

Czech Republic
- Prague 3

Germany
- Frankfurt 3
- Berlin 3

Netherlands
- Amsterdam 3
- Rotterdam 3

Belgium
- Brussels 3

England
- London 4

Thanks in Advanced.

[herrbert]

Hi Tom, and welcome to the boards,

One overal remark would be that you have too little time in the major cities. You also need to see in which places you want to do daytrips. (for Madrid, I always recommend, to make daytrips to Toledo and Segovia, or at least one of them). If you can put more time to Rome (+ daytrip to Pompeii?), Madrid (daytrips Toledo/Segovia) and Paris (+Versailles), it's worth doing that.

London is 3+4=7, and that's maybe overdoing it, but it depends on when you are travelling, (if arriving late means counting that as a whole day, and on day 3 your are leaving for Paris early in the morning, it's OK, as you have the last 4 days to see London aswell).

You also might want to take a look at getting an open-jaw ticket (flying into London, and flying out somewhere else). This way you doesn't have to travel back to London.

You didn't mention when you will be travelling, but keep in mind that the South of Europe is a lot warmer in spring and autumn than the north. So if you are leaving in April, I would suggest starting in Spain/Italy (or getting there asap from London). You will have a bigger chance of better weather this way. (If you are planning of hitting inland Spain in July/August, I hope you can stand the heat, but seriously because you are flexible don't stay there in those months.

For Spain/Portugal: I would suggest adding Granada for 2 days. (and if you would have plenty of time left ... a dozen places more). Maybe swapping Porto for Lagos (they are both beautiful, but Lagos, would make an easier route to Sevilla - Granada - Valencia - Barcelona.

Access to the Provence (Nice/Marseille) from Barcelona, is terrible. No cheap flights (yet), and the other options is a long trainride. (fastest is just under 12 hours), but there are some nighttrain options leaving in the late afternoon. Personally I would take flight: Barcelona - Rome (by Vueling or RyanAir), and skip Marseille.

A lot of people are skipping Milan, as they don't think it is worthwhile, or only go there because there is a good connection to Athens (by RyanAir).

Switzerland: instead of going to two cities, I would head for the mountains. (Gimmelwald, is a favourite, but I have to check it out for myself), also note, that Switzerland can do a lot of damage to your wallet, and Austria offers, a lot of the same, for less money. (Innsbruck/Salzburg)

Germany: Stuttgart .. why?, Frankfurt: the old city is some fun, but not worth a stay for longer that one day. Coming from Prague, the town of Rothenburg, might be a good option.

I would skip Rotterdam, or make it a daytrip from Amsterdam. (it's really close to Amsterdam - train 1 hour), for brussels, you might want to check the Brugges/Brussels topic.

I notice that you tend to stick in the West of Europe, there is only one place in the former Eastern part (Prague). You might want to consider places like Budapest, Vienna (+daytrip to Bratislava), and Krakow?

Edit Fasted - Fastest (what is fasted?)

[me]

Hi Tom,

Herbert has some great ideas. Lagos <natives say "Lagosh"> is a nice place. i spent just one night there, and one in Faro, which i regret. Lagos is a fun town! (Faro not so much, but it does have airport)

his idea about flying from Barcelona to Rome is excellent. as Prof. Higgens might have put it: "The plane from Spain is faster than the train."

you don't really say what your interests are. if history, culture & art are among them, Vienna would be a good place to visit. think Habsburgs, heurigen & houses <Hundertwasserhaus & the many where Mozart lived>.

Innsbruck is a beautiful city in the Tyrolean alps. nearby, the town of Hall has an interesting mint museum. <i double majored in Political Science and in Economics, so monetary history also interests me>

a possible path, should you take Herberts advice: after Venice, <skip Milan> Innsbruck, Munich, Salzburg, Vienna, Budapest, <perhaps stop in Bratislava here, i've never been> Prague, Berlin. . . [but, Budapest's poor organization left a bad taste in my mouth, others love it!]

P.S. Mainz is more interesting than Frankfurt, imho. But Cologne <Köln> might be better than either, it has a magnificent cathedral.

- d

[pointofnoreturn]

Just some select opinions...

England
- London 3 London should be 4-5 nights. I don't think 3 nights is suffice enough.

France
- Paris 3 4-5 nights is ideal

Italy
- Florence 2 I think 3 nights is a better bet
- Rome 3 Definitely no more than 5 nights
- Venice 2 2-3 nights
- Milan 2 Eh. There's SOME stuff to do there, like the Last Supper Painting and the Duomo but it's just a really expensive city. I would know, I have some relatives who are Italian.

Noticed that you were flying into London for a set number of days then flying out from the same city after another set of days. I don't think that's very wise. London is really expensive but you could make do I suppose.

Consider flying open jaw. If you're from Canada, you could check into Zoom Airlines (a Montreal-Paris, London-Montreal would cost no more than $700CAD all in). It just takes a while to look around and find out what's the best airline that will give you a good value for your money if you chose the "multi-destination" option on flight searches.

[tom455]

Thanks all for your replies. I really do appreciate your time and help, I find it invaluable to get others first hand insight, theres just no substitute.

Just some more info regarding transportation, Im looking at getting one of those 8 day euro link flexi passes combined with cheap flights and local transport to get me around. Hopefully it wont end up costing an arm and leg.

I took an open-jaw ticket on my last trip in march with return tickets from australia-vietnam via singapore airlines, and basically worked my way up from singapore-malaysia-thailand-cambodia-vietnam. But I didnt think it would be as relevant with the planned journey because it may be just as easy to complete the journey in a loop? that and Im thinking it gives me the option of finding a job in london if I chose at the end of the journey. Let me know if you think otherwise as Im open to all suggestions at this time, and will firm up plans in the new year. Maybe I should start in the other direction and catch a plane back from Lisbon-London?

Herrbert: thanks heaps, Ill definately take everything you have said into serious consideration and will include this into the itinerary. Ill repost in early in the new year. Ive chosen western europe as Im thinking of doing eastern europe in seperate trip a couple of years later, but again, if you think 4 months should suffice for both then let me know.

David: Thanks for your suggestions also. I have a fairly wide range of interests. I definately want to see and be exposed to the history, art and culture of each city. I know I wont get time to really experience it, but I guess I want to be able have a preview of what each city/country has to offer. I love roaming the streets, just experiencing and observing what the locals do day to day, strolling through the streets and markets etc.

pointofnoreturn: Thanks for your reposnse also, as for London flying in an out, Im hoping to be staying with a few friends there, plus I may be looking for work there at the end of the journey.

How is Monaco? worth a visit?

also from all the travel books of europe which mob do you think does the best job from the following? or is it much of a muchness?

Lonely Planet - Europe on a ShoeString
Lets Go - Europe
Rough Guide - Europe?
Rick Steves - Back door to Europe??

[madamtrashheap]

tom455 said:

Im thinking it gives me the option of finding a job in london if I chose at the end of the journey.

Make sure you have the relevant entry clearance (visa) to work in the UK. If you're thinking of this, perhaps your thought of ending in London is worth considering.

tom455 said:

How is Monaco? worth a visit?

I love Monaco, it's like a fairy-tale land, but it's not worth going out of your way for as train access can be tedious, depending on where you're coming from though. If you end up staying in Nice, then it's simply to go up for a few hours one evening or for a half-day trip (train ride is only 30mins), or if you go on the Marsailles-Milan train then you could do a stop-off for a few hours. But my advice would be to include it if you're in the region (ie Cote d'Azur) but not go out of your way to get there - save it for another trip.

David's call on Cologne (Koeln) instead of Stuttgart or Mainz is a good one, again depending on the route you choose.

Guidebooks - have a look at a recent post on the topic pretravel.proboards1.com/index.cgi?board=Tips&action=display&n=1&thread=586 for opinions and suggestions.

[me]

as i said before, with those interests, which i share, Vienna might be a great place for you to spend some time.

Rome is also a place that really fit those interests. i spent 5 nights there, yet left too much unseen.

Monaco & Cote d'Azur: when i was there 15+ years ago, a) the beaches were rocky and b) the people were less than pleasant with tourists. the Italian riviera, which i visited two years ago, also had rocky beaches but the people seemed glad to have tourists visiting.

frankly, the people working the tourist industry in Nice weren't too nice! but if you want to visit Monaco, and are in Italy anyway, Monaco's Eastern border is with Italy. you don't need to go to Nice. [take the train North from Pisa/Cinque Terra to Genova, West to Monaco]

regarding tourbooks: can you go to the library and check them out <literally & figureatively>. look them over, decide for yourself which has the style and kind of information you want? choose which to buy that way.

also, with such a long trip, it might be better to buy country specific books as you go.

- d

[pointofnoreturn]

Rick Steves - Back door to Europe

Well worth the $$$

It was the first travel-related book I bought and I owe a lot to that. I also have LP on a Shoestring and Let's Go Europe on a Budget.

I think 2007 books are coming out around this time of the year so make sure you check the publishing date of the book when you buy them so you have the most up to date info (for the most part anyways cause they change on a whim!).

[herrbert]

I have to make small correction, about getting to the Provence. There are some Easyjet flights from London to Nice (or Cote d'Azur-Airport), and you could fly to Rome from there with blu-express.com www.blu-express.com/(low cost-sister of Blue Panorama).

Other options I still couldn't find. I would make for some serious re planning, but it makes the Provence a lot more accessible if you hate long-train rides.

[tom455]

I like the idea of flying from Barcelona - Rome.

Just have a few more questions.

1. Is there much to see in France besides Paris? Ive scanned the forum and not much has been said (besides the south of France which I would have to skip if I flew).

2. Is Heidelburg (Germany) with a look? its a bit out of the way at the moment.

3. I heard Pisa and its Tower isnt all that spectacular, possibly not even worth the day trip from Florance. true?

4. How about Verona? I heard that theres the whole Romeo & Juliet story here.

5. Finally, I only speak english, will I have any issues travelling in the above countries + Poland (Warsaw, Krakow). Ill be mainly sticking to the touristy routes.

thx in advanced.

[me]

Romeo & Juliet was written by an Englishman in the early 17th century. Verona doesn't really have much of anything to do with this play written by the Bard.

[WillTravel]

In France, I haven't been outside Paris, but there's an amazing amount to see outside Paris. I don't know where to start - get a good France guidebook and see if anything appeals. Some, but not all, is not easily accessible without a car.

[madamtrashheap]

tom 455, hopefully these answer a few more of your queries:

1. There are some amazing places to explore in France, but as WT pointed out, sometime travelling there can be a hassle. A few of my favourites (that might suit your schedule) are Lyon, Avignon, Aix-en-Provence, Mont St Michele, Macon, Carcassone. Although, if you just stay in Paris, you could easily do a day trip to Dijon, Giverny (Monet's gardens) or Lyon (although an overnight stay here is worth it for the food!). Normandy is another area worth a visit, but again it's a time factor. Here's a link to another post about French towns: pretravel.proboards1.com/index.cgi?board=CCadvice&action=display&n=1&thread=3790&page=1. If you travel from Paris down to Barcelona by train, you could easily adjust your route for one or two other stops in France to break up the journey. Grab a map and see what works.

2. Heidelberg, whilst pretty, isn't a must see. The castle remains are interesting, and as it's a University town there is always a good student/night life to be had. But if it's too far off your itinerary then I'd skip it this time around.

3. If you're in the region, it's worth a half-day trek to Pisa for some gelato (or gelati!) and a photo of the tower - everyone needs a cheesey photo in their album! There's a lot more to the town that just the tower, but that's what it's best known for. A half-day (and 60min train ride) trip there from Florence will be fun and not eat into your time too much.

4. As David pointed out, Romeo and Juliet stories abound in Verona, but don't go there just for that. The only "real" remnant of this tale is Juliet's balcony inside the courtyard (and through the tunnel of love) at Villa Capelletti. Although, and this will break your heart, the balcony was put there (many years ago) by the Verona tourism council to satisfy the many tourists who come looking for the tragic lovers. Romeo's house is down the road a bit and hasn't been restored, in fact there's a cafe where the entrance used to be! The play is based on a combination of stories Shakespeare heard whilst travelling and on the history of the Guelphs and the Ghibelilnes in Italy. Verona is a pretty town and has a relaxed but stylish feel to it. Places like Piazza Bra (main square with cafes, people and gardens), the Arena (Amphitheatre from Roman times) where concerts and operas are still held, Via Mazzini (shops galore!) and Piazza delle Erbe (markets) all warrant a visit if it's on your route. I like Verona, but it only needs a day to explore.

5. As far as only speaking English, you'll be fine in most of the places you go as they are used to monolingual visitors. You'll find yourself using a delicate combination of charades and pointing which, while odd looking, is effective. Perhaps learn a few of the basics of each language you'll encounter (please, thank you, hello, goodbye) and any foods you're allergic to and you'll be fine.

[tom455]

lol ;D

thanks for the reply, again, the information presented is invaluable, Im sure many people will benefit from all the answers you guys are providing.

madamtrashheap: thats a great response and will solve many issues. Ive got a Lets Go Guide book, and Ive found the back pages to be very useful. It has a basic dictionary of essential words and a few phrases phonetically spelt out, Im sure I wont be the only laughing when I try to pronounce words in the foreign language.

I was thinking of training it from paris -> bordeaux -> madrid, but if theres not much to see in bordeaux, then I might just fly paris -> madrid, saves time and probably $$

also.. whats the deal with ryanair? seems like fares are ridiculously cheap (0.99 Euros) from Paris -> Madrid??

easyjet is about 25Euros.

I understand there are additional taxes and charges.

[madamtrashheap]

If you've got the time, the train ride (scenery) is worth it, but again, it's a hike so it's up to you. I was thinking you could, if you had time and the inclination, train from Paris to Bordeaux, then Carcassonne, then Barcelona and at least see a little more of France. But now you've thrown Madrid into the mix it's up to you. You could even do Paris-Loire Valley-Madrid to break it up, see the countryside and eat good food. But if you're not too fussed, then flying will be your best bet.

Happy charades! ;D