sept-late dec

[herrbert]

Frankfurt, Germany (20 days to stay with a friend)
Munich, Germany (3 days, including octoberfest)
Vienna, Austria (3 days) - 4 days would be better
Innsbruck, Austria (2 days)
Zurich, Switzerland * (1-2 days, but I would skip it)
Paris, France (anywhere between 4-6, depending on interests)
Brugges, Belgium (2-3 days, depending of daytrip or not, Brussels/Gent?)
Rotterdam, Netherlands * (I would skip Rotterdam)
Amsterdam, Netherlands (2 days) - perfect if they are 2 whole days
Dublin, Ireland (3 days) - perfect
(anywhere else in Ireland)
Edinburgh, UK 2-3 days, I would do a additional tour of Scotland, IF you have the time
London, UK (i would like to visit stonehenge)(min. 4 days + additional day for Stonehenge)
(fly back to Paris) (Why? Easyjet + BMIbaby fly London-Lyon)
Lyon, France (1 day) (I would skip it, but I am not a big fan of France. Nice would also be an option, also by plane)
Milan, Italy (1 day)
Venice, Italy (3 days) - perfect
Florence/Pisa (4 days) good, 1 day for Pisa, consider a daytrip to Siena
Athens Greece (4 days) (3 would do)
Santorini, Greece (2 days) (add the 1 day you save in Athens)
(fly to Rome)
Rome, Italy (5 days) (good)
Cinque Terre Region, Italy (not sure what cities to visit) (you might want to do this, from Florence, and go from Rome to Barcelona or Madrid. I would reserve 3 days - answer to your question, as many as possible)
Nice, France ( 2 days) (do this directly from London, there is no easy connection between Nice and Barcelona, 2-3 days will do)
Barcelona, Spain * 3-4 days
Madrid, Spain 3-4 days, depending on daytrips. Toledo for sure, Segovia if you have the time. if you want to do both 5 days in total, 3 for Madrid, and 1 each for Toledo and Segovia)
Segovia, Spain * (see Madrid)
Grenada, Spain * 2-3 days, you might want to add 2 days in Sevilla. It's en-route to Lagos in Portugal, and just as Granada an important city from the Islamic era.
Portugal (not sure where tog o here) If coming from Seville, you can train to Lagos, and then to Lisbon, or you fly to Lisbon (and skip Lagos) 3 days in each town is OK

Fly back to Toronto (open jaw ticket, or do you need to go back to Frankfurt? If you need to go back to Frankfurt, check DBA and Air Berlin.) If you are undecided, you check what it would cost you to fly back vs the extra money for an open jaw ticket)

[me]

as architecture is an interest, i'd suggest an emphasis on Vienna, Rome & Barcelona.

[chedder]

well i was told to visit the northern countries first and end with all the southern countries at the end due to the weather

and yes if there is some that you dont think will be appealing please let me know i am just going on what other ppl have been putting on the message boards,

about lyon and milan no big reason just thought if there was time i would throw them in there, but i guess its better to stay one more day at a larger city that i know i would enjoy and yes i can see your point about the 1 day visits being tiring

thank you eagle

[chedder]

thank you herrbert that is exactly what i needed to get me on my way~~!

[madamtrashheap]

You're getting there chedder!

Just a few more points:
Lyon is quite a cool city and in Autumn they have food festivals around the city (look up www.whatsonwhen.com or www.en.lyon-france.com for some ideas). You can fly from London (Heathrow or Stanstead) to Lyon. Even one day would keep you wandering (and eating!) as you can take a trip up the hill to visit the Notre-Dame (the other one) basilica, take in the views, visit the market and walk around the Old Town before perhaps continuing to Nice, then Cinque Terre, Pisa, Florence, Venice, Rome then fly to Barcelona.
Florence - you really only need half a day for Pisa as it's only 1 hr by train from Florence. Something to note, if you're around there in early November, there's a truffle festival in San Miniato (halfway between Florence and Pisa) that you could also go to which will make Pisa and back a full day trip. This is, of course, if you don't stop there as noted above.
As the others have noted, look at the order in which you visit the cities (esp Nice, Cinque Terre, Rome) to make it flow a little better and logically.

[chedder]

maddamtrashheap,

Thank you for the advice, you noted i should check cities for travel flow, which would you suggest i do??

[madamtrashheap]

Pleasure chedder!

About the direction to take, without getting too specific I was noting that the cities are kind of out of order around France/Italy (I know you are trying to fly sections - v wise!) and would suggest (well, here I go getting specific)
Lyon (fly from London)
train to Nice,
train to Cinque Terre
train to Florence (if skipping Milan, otherwise go Nice, Milan, CT, Florence)
train Venice
fly Venice-Athens
do Greece as per Herrbert
fly to Rome
fly to Barcelona
continue...

Of course this is just a suggestion, but it might flow better into your plans - see what you think.

[chedder]

HEY YOU GUYS ARE THE EXPERTS HERE!....ha ha

that sounds great if it will "flow" better and cause me less headaches i am game!...this is the little stuff i was looking for...thanks!!

again muchly appreciated!!

[chedder]

ok this is a revised intinerary please if anyone could help on travelling tips or sights to see in these preferred cities, thanks again to everyone for their help!

also i tried booking early for munic during octoberfest but it seems the only things left are out of my price range, is there any good sites i could see if there is night trains travelling to vienna because my time will be cut short here i think due to
night accomodations
Frankfurt, Germany (20 days to stay with a friend)
Munich, Germany (3 days, including octoberfest)
Vienna, Austria (4 days)
Innsbruck, Austria (2 days)
Paris, France 4,
Brugges, Belgium (2 days)
Amsterdam, Netherlands (2 days) -
Dublin, Ireland (3 days) -
Edinburgh, UK 2-3
London, UK (i would like to visit stonehenge)(min. 5
(fly back to Lyon)
Lyon, France
Nice, France (train 3 days)
Cinque Terre Region, Italy 4 days
Florence/Pisa (4 days) good, 1 day for Pisa
Venice, Italy (3 days) - train
Athens Greece (3 days) -fly
Santorini, Greece (3 days)
(fly to Rome)
Rome, Italy (5 days) (good)
Barcelona, Spain * 3-4 days fly
Madrid, Spain 3-4 days, depending on daytrips. Toledo for sure, Segovia if you have the time. if you want to do both 5 days in total, 3 for Madrid, and 1 each for Toledo and Segovia)
Segovia, Spain * (see Madrid)
Grenada, Spain * 2-3 days, you might want to add 2 days in Sevilla. It's en-route to Lagos in Portugal, and just as Granada an important city from the Islamic era.
Portugal (not sure where tog o here) If coming from Seville, you can train to Lagos, and then to Lisbon, or you fly to Lisbon (and skip Lagos) 3 days in each town is OK

Fly back to Toronto (open jaw ticket, or do you need to go back to Frankfurt? If you need to go back to Frankfurt, check DBA and Air Berlin.) If you are undecided, you check what it would cost you to fly back vs the extra money for an open jaw ticket

[madamtrashheap]

OK chedder, almost there! Jsut a few comments:

chedder said:

also i tried booking early for munic during octoberfest but it seems the only things left are out of my price range, is there any good sites i could see if there is night trains travelling to vienna because my time will be cut short here i think due to
night accomodations

Have you tried, as a last resort, The Tent? Basically it’s a large tent where you get to sleep, that’s it. Imagine a circus tent, apparently that’s as big as it is! www.the-tent.com
Otherwise, here's a list of budget places, different types, if you haven't already tried them:
Haus International (HI) – close to the Oktoberfest grounds. www.haus-international.de/index.php?lang=en
Wombat’s City Hostel – www.wombats.at/munich-hostel/index.php
Also try www.muenchen.de/Tourismus/Accommodation_Hotels/7604/index.html for ideas and rates.
Otherwise, try any of the following that are near the train station (Hauptbahnhof) and Theresienwiese (Oktoberfest grounds):
Euro Youth Hotel Hostel - www.euro-youth-hotel.de/english/backpacker-munich.htm or www.hostelz.com/hostel/1116-Euro-Youth-Hotel-Hostel
4 You Muenchen Hostel - www.the4you.de
Meiniger Hostel Munich - www.meininger-hostels.de or www.hostelz.com/hostel/28099-Meininger-City-Hostels---Landsberger-Stra%DFe
Europaeische Hof - www.venere.com/hotel/index.php?htid=23252& Not a hostel but budget hotel near the main train station

Now, for the itinerary:

chedder said:

Frankfurt, Germany (20 days to stay with a friend)
Munich, Germany (3 days, including octoberfest)
Vienna, Austria (4 days) - have you looked at going Munich-Innsbruck-Vienna then flying the Paris? Or do you want to still do trains and use them for accommodation (night trains)?
Innsbruck, Austria (2 days) see above for route alteration
Paris, France 4,
Brugges, Belgium (2 days)
Amsterdam, Netherlands (2 days) - I'm guessing you're flying to Dublin from here?
Dublin, Ireland (3 days) - again flying from Dublin to Edinburgh?
Edinburgh, UK (Scotland!) 2-3
London, UK (i would like to visit stonehenge)(min. 5 - you can do a day trip that covers Stonehenge and Bath if that interests you (either organised/by coach or on the train and bus yourself)
(fly back to Lyon)
Lyon, France - how many days? 1 would be good
Nice, France (train 3 days)
Cinque Terre Region, Italy 4 days
Florence/Pisa (4 days) good, 1 day for Pisa - you'll only need half a day and could even do it as a stop for a few hours on the way from Cinque Terre to Florence (on same train line) as there is a luggage storage facility at the stationVenice, Italy (3 days) - train
Athens Greece (3 days) -fly
Santorini, Greece (3 days)
(fly to Rome)
Rome, Italy (5 days) (good)
Barcelona, Spain * 3-4 days fly
Madrid, Spain 3-4 days, depending on daytrips. Toledo for sure, Segovia if you have the time. if you want to do both 5 days in total, 3 for Madrid, and 1 each for Toledo and Segovia)
Segovia, Spain * (see Madrid)
Grenada, Spain * 2-3 days, you might want to add 2 days in Sevilla. It's en-route to Lagos in Portugal, and just as Granada an important city from the Islamic era.
Portugal (not sure where tog o here) If coming from Seville, you can train to Lagos, and then to Lisbon, or you fly to Lisbon (and skip Lagos) 3 days in each town is OK

[chedder]

now this tent, (its the only one left)

the part i looked at wasnt to specific on sleeping arrangements, like do i need a sleeping bag or sheets,

it doesnt matter to me if i use trains or planes or what, just trying to cut out some accomodations on night trains thats all
i think i may be pushing for time

and i wouldnt mind seeing a bit more of ireland and scotland, but i dont know yet but i think i have a good head start!

and also how soon do i need to book hostels in advance

[madamtrashheap]

For The Tent, according to their website (I looked in the German bit) you won't need bedding as it's included in the price. It's not snazzy, but is at least a (large) roof over your head. You can rent the floor (incl bedding and iso/flat mat) or a bed (incl. covers). Note that prices are raised a bit during the Oktoberfest period. The good bit is that they have free showers (not always the case in other camping places in Munich).

For booking hostels - the answer is: as soon a possible! As you have found, when you're travelling is the busy season (still) so as soon as you've located your hostels and the days you'll be there, I'd book them.

For Ireland and Scotland, have a look at the other posts as there has been a lot of discussion about these two places lately so they will give you ideas on places and time to spend.

[chedder]

thank you!!

[chedder]

I am looking to find a site and what air lines or rail lines to take between countries, also how long it takes in between each place,

because i would like to get my intinerary fine tuned to the exact dates so i can start to book some hostels, thanks to everyone!

[herrbert]

For trains you can find most timetables at www.bahn.de Go to international guests, for the English version.

For flights you can use one of the Meta sites, but note that those are not perfect, as they are not likely to show all the possibilities. At least I have never seen one. try: www.flylc.com. that one is pretty good as it comes to budgetflights. (that means it shows the biggest lowcost airlines, but not the small ones, and not the normal airlines, that sometimes also have good offers).