3 Month Itinerary - first draft

[greeneyes]

Hi! I'm new to the boards and planning my first trip to Europe for next summer. My boyfriend and I are wanting to go for three months and would like some advice or insight on the itinerary we've come up with so far. All of the days listed next to cities/towns are full days spent there (i.e. 3 days in London does not include travel to or from London)

Sun. April 7: Arrive in London

UK/IRELAND
London (3 days)
Fly to Edinburgh
Edinburgh (1 day)
Compass Buster tour with Haggis (6 days)
Fly to Dublin
All Ireland Rocker tour with Shamrocker (8 days)
Fly to Paris

FRANCE
Paris (6 days including day trip to Versailles)
Train to Bruges

BELGIUM
Bruges (2 days)
Train to Amsterdam

NETHERLANDS
Amsterdam (3 days)
Train to Berlin

GERMANY
Berlin (2 days)
Train to Prague

CZECH REPUBLIC
Prague (3 days)
Train to Vienna

AUSTRIA
Vienna (2 days)
Train to Salzburg
Salzburg (2 days)
Train to Munich

GERMANY
Munich (2 days)
Train to Interlaken

SWITZERLAND
Interlaken (2 days)
Train to Venice

ITALY
Venice (3 days including day trip to Verona)
Train to Florence
Florence (4 days including day trips to Pisa and Siena)
Train to La Spezia (Cinque Terre)
Cinque Terre (2 days)
Train to Sorrento
Sorrento (3 days including day trips to Pompeii and Capri)
Train to Rome
Rome (5 days)
Fly to Marseille

FRANCE
Marseille (2 days)
Train to Barcelona

SPAIN
Barcelona (3 days)
Train to San Sebastian
San Sebastian (3 days including day trip to Pamplona)
Train to Madrid
Madrid (3 days)
Train to Lisbon

PORTUGAL
Lisbon (3 days)
Train to Porto
Porto (2 days)
Fly to London

UK
London (2 days)

Wed. August 6: Fly out of London

Thank you in advance for any help you can give me!

[herrbert]

Hi and welcome green eyes.

Some quick remarks to start.

You are doing a great job, by taking enough time in Italy (maybe CT, can use a day more), but you are rushing some of the other cities.

Berlin in my opinion needs 4 days
Vienna really needs 4 days
Munich 2 is OK, if you stick to the city itself, if you are planning on daytrips (the Castles near Füssen, or Dachau) then you need more time there as well

See if you can take a plane between Amsterdam and Berlin (or a nighttrain). Also take a plane between Marseille and Barcelona (Clickair or Iberia),

See if you want to do some flying in Spain aswell (Vueling Airlines, Spanair, Clickair, Iberia, Air Europa). Barcelona - Madrid can be as cheap as 20 euros (the same for Madrid - Lisbon). You might also want to consider some other options in Spain, like Granada, Sevilla and Cordoba in the south, and Salamanca. At least plan a daytrip to Toledo from Madrid, and if you can find another day, also plan a daytrip to Segovia from Madrid.

I would recommend putting Spain/Portugal/Italy earlier in the mix, and Scotland and Ireland later. In April the weather will be good in Spain, but can be terrible in the UK and Ireland. At least if you have a normal spring and summer. Also July/August can be really hot in Spain, so I think you should try to avoid that. I would try to do the trip in reserve, this way you have a bigger change of good weather during the whole trip. The way you planned it know you would have at least cold days in the UK/Ireland (and most likely some wet days as well), and really hot days at the end of the trip.

I hope this helps so far ...

[madamtrashheap]

I agree with herrbert on many points - although I suspect that the tours for Scotland and Ireland are just within the time frame before they hit high season and get more expensive. If not, then perhaps look at altering the order of your trip if you can.

One more thing to add - can you stay either further north in Nice or even Aix-en-Provence rather than Marseille? I'd rate Nice above Marseille (Bouillabaisse or not!), and you could always return by train for the flight to Spain.

Good luck with plans - they look like they are coming along nicely!

[greeneyes]

Okay so I've taken the advice you guys gave me (so helpful, thank you!) and some of the other things I've learned from reading the forum and changed my itinerary.

I altered the order so that I'm not going to be doing Portugal/Spain/Italy in the really hot season ... though I needed to leave the tours in Scotland and Ireland as they were for the time frame. I've also decided to cut the south of France for this trip and fly directly from Barcelona to Naples which gave me more days for Vienna and Amsterdam.

April 27th - Arrive in London
April 27th to April 30th - Spend 3 days in London
May 1st - Fly to Scotland
May 2nd to 8th - Spend 7 days in Scotland (Edinburgh and tour)
May 9th - Fly to Ireland
May 10th to 17th - Spend 8 days in Ireland (tour)
May 18th - Fly to Porto
May 19th to May 20th - Spend 2 days in Porto
May 21st - Train to Lisbon
May 22nd to May 24th - Spend 3 days in Lisbon
May 25th - Train to Madrid
May 26th to May 28th - Spend 3 days in Madrid
May 29th - Train to San Sebastian
May 30th to June 1st - Spend 3 days in San Sebastian
June 2nd - Train to Barcelona
June 3rd to June 5th - Spend 3 days in Barcelona
June 6th - Fly to Naples/Train to Sorrento
June 7th to June 9th - Spend 3 days in Sorrento
June 10th - Train to Rome
June 11th to 15th - Spend 5 days in Rome
June 16th - Train to La Spezia/Train to Riomaggiore
June 17th to June 18th - Spend 2 days in Cinque Terre
June 19th - Train to Florence
June 20th to June 23rd - Spend 4 days in Florence
June 24th - Train to Venice
June 25th to June 27th - Spend 3 days in Venice
June 28th - Train to Interlaken
June 29th to June 30th - Spend 2 days in Interlaken
July 1st - Train to Munich
July 2nd to July 3rd - Spend 2 days in Munich
July 4th - Train to Salzburg
July 5th to July 6th - Spend 2 days in Salzburg
July 7th - Train to Vienna
July 8th to July 10th - Spend 3 days in Vienna
July 11th - Train to Prague
July 12th to July 14th - Spend 3 days in Prague
July 15th - Train to Berlin
July 16th to July 18th - Spend 3 days in Berlin
July 19th - Train to Amsterdam
July 20th to July 23nd - Spend 3 days in Amsterdam
July 24th - Train to Bruges
July 25th to July 26th - Spend 2 days in Bruges
July 27th - Train to Paris
July 28th to August 2nd - Spend 6 days in Paris
August 3rd - Fly to London
August 4th to August 5th - Spend 2 days in London
August 6th - Fly to Vancouver

Does this look better? Any more advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

[herrbert]

Hi Greeneyes,

I see you that you reserve complete days for travel. In a way this is smart, but for some routes it's not necessary (like Munich - Salzburg, Salzburg - Vienna). I see Vienna will have 3 complete days, and if you leave Salzburg in the morning, at least another half day.

I notice, that Interlaken is way of route, you might want to consider a town like Innsbruck, that is on-route. It would save you a lot of time.

If you know where these tours were gonna take you, can make a similar route yourself. (having the advantage you can stay longer when you want).

You can consider flying a very good option in Spain. The ride between Lisbon and Madrid, is pretty long, and you can fly this pretty cheap. (check Vueling Airlines). I would also check Transavia.com for a flight between Berlin and Amsterdam.

[madamtrashheap]

I understand you want to go to Switzerland (Interlaken) and that train ride from Italy (eitehr Florence or Venice) will take around 7 hours. Then back to Munich will also be an all day affair so you need to consider if it's worth it for 2 days or take up herrbert's suggestion of Innsbruck (in Austria) instead. It's a pretty town, in the middle of the Tirol region (lots of mountains that still take your breath away) and is a little cheaper than Switzerland. It's up to you, of course, but this is something else to throw in the mix.

[greeneyes]

Yeah, the train ride from Venice to Interlaken is about 6.5 hours and from Interlaken to Munich is about 7.0 hours. Is the scenery on the train ride through Switzerland worth it? I considered Innsbruck but wondered if I would regret not seeing Interlaken and some of Switzerland.

[Eagle]

greeneyes, the last Itinerary you posted looks good. I tend to agree with the others in that an extra day in the C.T. might be worthwhile and an extra day in Munich if you plan on doing any day trips to the Castles or to Dachau, and perhaps an extra day in Interlaken? However, I don't see too many ways you could add the extra time, short of extending your entire trip by a few days.

I don't see a problem with a short visit to Switzerland, especially as you'll be touring Europe for three months (ie: with longer trips, one doesn't always have to be ultra-efficient with travels - an occasional "splurge" can be tolerated). As herrbert noted you have allowed full travel days on many of your routes, and you might be able to compensate for the longer travel time to & from Switzerland by simply "adjusting" your times in other areas (ie: reduce a couple of your other stops by half a day, leaving on an earlier train or whatever?). Interlaken is a beautiful city and aside from lake tours or whatever, if you're adventurous you could always try Paragliding!

Regarding your stay in the Cinque Terre, I'm assuming you're staying in Riomaggiore (you indicated "train to Riomaggiore")? If that's the case, a couple of tips. First, the ride from La Spezia to Riomaggiore is only about 8 minutes long, so don't get too comfortable on the train, which only stops for about one minute. You might find that when the train stops, you're in a tunnel - if 8 minutes has elapsed and the train has stopped, get off! To get to the main part of town, walk to the back of, and past the station to the small tunnel; at the end of the tunnel, turn left and you're there. You might be greeted at the station by the famous Mama Rosa, who will offer accomodation in her Hostel (I've never stayed there, so can't comment on the quality of the accomodations). She doesn't speak much English, but tell her you have reservations, and she will probably get the drift.

If you're planning on taking day tours to either the Castles or Dachau while in Munich, I'd highly recommend Radius Tours. They have an office in the Munich Train station. Check their web site if you're interested.

You didn't indicate the details of your initial flight to London, but you will probably lose the first day due to flight times and time zone changes (if you depart on the 27th from Vancouver, you will arrive on the 28th). Therefore, you will only have two days in London at the beginning of your trip (it will probably take you that long to get over jet lag, so you won't be doing as much touring as you might think).

You might have already done this, but make sure you are aware which if your rail trips require reserations. If the Conductor checks your ticket / rail pass and finds you don't have a reservation card, you will likely be nicked with a fine "on the spot" (especially in Italy).

Cheers!!!

[greeneyes]

Eagle, thank you for all your advance, it was extremely helpful.

In regards to London, we plan on flying out April 26th and arriving morning of April 27th. I've heard that the trick is to stay up as long as possible that day and go to bed at a normal hour - and usually you're okay the following day. If that's the case then I'll have three full days in London at the beginning of our trip before leaving to make the Scotland tour .. and two full days at the end.

I'm going to look into the Munich tours. We planned on maybe taking a free walking tour of Munich one day and a day trip to Dachau the next. I was interested in Cinderella's castle so I'll look into adding days there.

How do I find out about the reservations? I've been using www.raileurope.com to determine routes and trip lengths - can I use that or is there another way?

[Eagle]

greeneyes, first, regarding the train reservations -- rather than using the Rail Europe site, I find that www.bahn.de is much more informative and "user friendly". Click the link at the top for "International Guests" for the english language page. Each rail trip displayed will normally have a small red "R" towards the right side, indicating a reservation is required on that particular trip. Generally speaking, assume that any of the high speed trains (TGV, ICE or whatever) will have mandatory reservations.

For the Munich tours, I believe Radius also offers walking tours but would have to check their web site to confirm that. They do offer tours of both Dachau and Neuschwanstein Castle (Cinderella Castle - this was the model for Walt Disney's castles). If you decide to take the Radius tours, hopefully you'll have Steve for the Dachau tour and Maxine for the Castles tour. They were both enormously helpful and the tours were fantastic!

Hope this has "filled in some of the blanks". Cheers!!!

[greeneyes]

Thank you - I'll definitely check out that site.

I just did a little re-working of my itinerary with everyone's suggestions about how certain places do not take a full day of travel ... and added in some night trains to save time as well. With night trains between Lisbon and Madrid, Madrid and San Sebastian, San Sebastian and Barcelona and then Berlin and Amsterdam I've saved 4 days on my itinerary.

I'm fairly happy with the amount of days in most places on my trip but out of Dublin, Madrid, San Sebastian, Barcelona, Cinque Terre, Interlaken, Munich, Prague and London - where would you add the days if you could? Or is there somewhere else I should consider looking into? I'm interested in pretty much everything - museums, history, scenery ...

Thanks!

[herrbert]

4 days would be enough to add a new destination. (like Budapest or Lake Como in Northern Italy, or maybe adding Sevilla in Spain),

As far as adding days is concerned to you initerary, I would look for some good daytrips.

From Madrid, you can make an easy visit to Toledo. (by train from Atocha Station to Toledo is 30 minutes). It's a beautiful town, that has a lot to see. Another daytrip that is possible is a trip to Segovia (north east of Madrid), like Toledo it has an beautiful Old Town, with a beautiful Castle (Alcazar), Cathedral and also an Roman Aquaduct. If you can make Madrid 4 days in total, you will have time to make these daytrips.

From London you can visit Stonehenge. It's a long daytrip but it is possible.

From Vienna a daytrip to Bratislava (by train, but possible by boat) is a good way to spend a day.

From Salzburg it's easy to visit a town called Werfen (45 minutes by train). Here the mountains are higher, and the is a beautiful Castle to be visited but the main attraction are the ice caves of eisreisenwelt (www.eisriesenwelt.com)

If you haven't already added the days in Munich and CT, then that would be my first choice, as those are days you really need. Toledo and Salzburg would make the third and fourth extra day.

[greeneyes]

Okay, so I figured that it would probably be better for me to add more days to the places I'm already going to, than to add more places (I don't want to be rushing around the entire time) .. so I've chosen to add an extra day to:

1. Madrid so that I can do day trips to both Toledo and Segovia if I choose to, as well as to add some extra time between all of the night trains
2. Cinque Terre for some extra downtime between all of the traveling and sight-seeing and because I've heard it's so beautiful that I probably won't want to leave.
3. Interlaken - since we're taking the two full days just to train through Switzerland up there, I figured an extra day would break up the long trips even more. Also, I love the idea of just relaxing and taking some more downtime or maybe taking a day trip to Gimmelwald.
4. Munich so that we can do a day trip to Neuschwanstein Castle, Dachau and still have a day to explore Munich

So my trip looks like this in terms of days in places now:

~ 8 days in Ireland (Dublin and tour)
~ 7 days in Scotland (Edinburgh and tour)
~ 6 days in Paris (Versailles)
~ 5 days each in Rome and London
~ 4 days each in Madrid (Toledo and Segovia), Florence (Siena and Pisa) and Amsterdam
~ 3 days each in Lisbon, San Sebastian (Pamplona), Barcelona, Sorrento (Pompeii and Capri), Cinque Terre, Venice (Verona), Interlaken (Gimmelwald), Munich (Fussen and Dachau), Vienna, Prague, and Berlin
~ 2 days each in Porto, Salzburg (Werfen) and Bruges

Does that sound better? Am I allowing enough time to see the major aspects of these places?

Thanks again for all the help!

[herrbert]

Just some details. the 4 days in Florence are good, but Siena, would take one day, and Pisa a half one, so you would have 2 and a half day left, which I think can be OK, but it can also be a little tight (depends on what you want to see, if you want to see the main museums, then I would add one day, and drop one day in Amsterdam)

You could however also decide to see Siena, when you travel from Rome to Florence, that would save you some time, as you don't have to go back to Siena for the day, and the costs of a train ticket.

Dachau is not so far away from Munich, so if you leave early enough, you should be able to be back in the city somewhere in the afternoon, so you will have some more time in Munich.

[greeneyes]

Thanks herrbert,

In terms of Florence, I had planned on taking a full day to see Siena, one day to see the Piazza del Duomo, Cathedral of Santa Maria del Fiore, and the Uffizi Gallery, one day to see the Galleria dell'Accademia/whatever garners my interest and one day for Pisa and then the Pitti Palace/Boboli Gardens back in Florence. Does that seem too rushed or am I missing anything?

We were planning on taking a free walking tour of Munich our first day there (I can't remember the website or group right now) and then a daytrip to Dachau the morning of the next day so that we'll be able to head back to Munich and hit whatever interested us on the tour.

Thank you again for all the help!