1st time traveler! Please comment on my itinerary!

[azotos]

Hi!
Im a 19 year old girl traveling to europe alone for the first time. (First of all, Im really excited for this but my parents need a little convincing, any other women traveled alone before?)

Anyway Im planning on going for 6 weeks or more hopefully so heres my first draft. please give me any suggestions! Im planning on getting a eurorail pass and staying in hostels.

Fly to London (5 days
Take Chunnel to Brussels (1 day)
Train to Antwerp (2 days)
Train to Bruges (1 day)
Train to Paris (10 days, possibly more)
Train to Avignon (1 day)
Train to Cannes (1-2 days)
Train to Nice (2 days)
Train to Pisa (1 day)
Train to Rome (7-10 days)
Train to Florence (5 days?)
Fly home

Does this look doable? Please comment!! Thanks!

[mareeclo]

Hi Azotos,

At first glance this seems to be doable in six weeks. I have only been to 3 of the cities you mentionned, so I can't really comment on the whole itinary, but here's my thoughts anyways.

First off, you don't mention where you're flying from and don't mention wether you plan on using openjaw tickets. You do say you plan on flying into London but where will you be flying home from ? Looking at your draft, you mention Florence as being the last city you will be visiting on your trip. Is this where you're planning to fly home from ? I'm asking because Florence's airport is not a major airport and not all airlines fly there and as far as I know no overseas carriers fly to Florence non-stop, which means that if Florence is indeed the city you're planning on flying home from you'll most likely have to make a connection somewhere else in Europe. I just checked which major airlines fly from Florence Airport and here's a list :

Air France : Will most likely have you make a connection in Paris (Can't say for sure as I don't know where you're flying to, but personally, I would avoid that if you're going to go through Charles-de-Gaulle. That Airport is a mess and I avoid it as much as I can. Probably the worst airport I've been to. It's big, getting from terminal to the other takes forever and that's when you can figure out how to get from one to another as noone seems to want to help you out, even when you are fluent in french (as I am) and are nice and polite. Also, there's always some sort of strike at CDG or one union is threatening to go into a strike)

Alitalia : Will most likely have you fly through either Rome or Milan (As far as I remember, had no problems at Rome airport, but then again I was only 8 and travelled with my parents at the time, so I didn't really pay attention. As for Milan, there's always a chance your flight will either not be allowed to land or take off because of the fog. It happens a lot. I was stuck in Milan for a whole night last time I was there)

Austrian : Will probably have you fly through Vienna, never flew through Vienna's airport, so I can't comment on that.

Continental Airlines : If you're flying to the US, this might be a good option, depending on where you're flying from and to, you might be able to get a direct flight to London, but will have a connection on your way back either in Europe or the US.

Lufthansa : Will have you flight through Germany, most likely Frankfurt or Munich. Never flew through Germany, so I can't comment.

SN Brussels Airlines : Depending of where you're flying from you might be able to get a flight with this airline, but then again this will have you connect in Brussels most likely or maybe Amsterdam, not sure.

Now on to itinary. As I said earlier, I only visited 3 of the cities you mentionned and I'll be flying to a 4th one in just a couple of weeks, so I'm only going to comment on those and let the others comment on the rest of your itinary.

London (5 days) : Will be flying to London for the 1st time in September and so far I have only planned to be there for 3 days and I must say I have a hard time fitting everything I want to do or see in this really short stay and I'm considering adding one more day so I feel a little less rushed, so i think 5 days is a safe bet, though if you plan on doing one day trips out of the city, you might find it a bit short and you might want to consider adding a day or 2.

Brussels (1 day) : I know the word on this board is to skip Brussels and go to Bruges instead. I personally liked Brussels, but then again I went there to stay with friends and after only one night we moved to their country house, so I did not spend much time in the city. I don't think it needs more than one day though. Apparently, Brugges is a really nice place to visit. Haven't been there though, so I'll let those who went comment.

Paris (10 days) : My first thought was "Who wants to spend 10 or more days in Paris ?". Ok, the city is beautiful and there's a lot to see there and I must admit I did not get to see everything while I was there, but I got so sick of the way we were treated by the people there, it totally ruined my stay. As mentionned earlier, I'm fluent in french, it's actually my first language and even as a french speaker i was treated as if I was nothing there. People kept pretending they did not understand a word we said and kept asking wether we spoke french or not. After 3 days, I had enough lol I would probably go back though. Despite the rude people, I did enjoy the city and it really is beautiful, it's just not my favorite European city. I was 14 when I went and I'd like to see if i'd see the city differently as an adult. I would think that in those 10 days you're planning on wandering a bit out of the city and do some day trips no ?? I know a lot of people on this site have been to Paris, maybe they'll have a different opinion of the city.

Rome (7-10 days) : I loved Rome, so much history, so much to see. I think 7 days would be enough time to allow to the city depending on what you want to see. I was there for 4 days with my parents and If I remember well we did get to see a lot.

Well, I hope I could at least help a little bit.

[mango]

I had a great time in paris, and I speak hardly any french. They say that 70% of communication is non-verbal. Perhaps it was not the language that was the problem?

[freshsprout]

Wow, that is one ambitious itinerary...! I don't think I would be able to do half of that.. lol.

If this is your first time traveling over to Europe, honestly, I would cut the number of countries or cities down a little bit. I see that you're going to be in London, Paris and Rome for several days so that's great, but the trips in between like to Brussels and Pisa are going to wear you down. You won't be able to see everything in 1 day and just taking the train will wear your time and energy down. Sorry if I sound like a downer, but that's b/c this came from my own experience... I did a couple of "overnight" plane stops in Stuttgart and Hamburg between Munich and Berlin while I was in Germany and that was exhausting after a while. It would be far more beneficial if you group the days more like 3 days in either Pisa or Nice - and I'm sure you can go back to visit again. However since you're 19, you may have that burst of energy so what do I know.

I also second Mareccio's comment about Paris... while it is a beautiful city and is the museum centre of the world... I don't know if you will want to be there for 10 days. (Unless you are an art major or speak very fluent French?) I'm into art and design so I wanted to see it all, but the French language will get to you after the 3rd day (I spoke very basic French and seriously, it was -nothing!- lol) . People there do speak English, but very few "want to" unlike some of the other EU nations... I highly advise speaking French if you can. And yes, there will be a cultural shock, altho Italy will be similar. Not to mention, things are kind of pricey in Paris... (like London), that was one of the reasons why I stayed there only for 3 nights.

Just my opinion.. I wish I could give more tips on your other countries, but I only traveled to the UK, Paris and Germany. Good luck!

Irene

[pointofnoreturn]

London - I'm not sure if you included the loss of one day when you cross time zones. Either ways, 4-5 nights is okay for a first timer's visit to London. I've been to London several times and I still haven't seen anything. I don't think you should plan any daytrips unless you're willing to pay extra costs for trains and admission sights outside London (not cheap!)

Paris - I am not a HUGE fan of Paris. Granted, I did spend 4 nights there and enjoyed the museums and galleries tremendously but the atmosphere sucked so much. Even though I'm almost fluent in French, the people I encountered were mean and snobby and tried to rip me off (esp. in restaurants with the bills!). I don't mean to say that it's like that for everybody in Paris but I was really let down. Versailles was a drag too.... I won't be coming back here in the near future - that's for sure. You could do with 5 nights in Paris and use the other days in other cities that don't have enough days.

Rome - I actually think that's great. I spent 5 nights in Rome and didn't even see everything! You could use the extra days to take daytrips.

Florence - Florence is really compact. The majority of the attractions are situated in one area. 3-4 nights would be suffice enough but 5 nights is perfect if you want to explore the Tuscany countryside (which I regret I didn't do).

[freshsprout]

Pointofnoreturn - totally know what you mean! I was sadly disappointed in Paris too... couldn't believe it. I wonder if I had traveled with a companion, the experience may have been a lot better? It's unfortunate b/c the "other" things take away from how beautiful the architecture, food and arts the city is all about. Paris is still worth it, but we just want you to be forewarned.

Good things to watch out for in a la Paris:

- The Eiffel Tower (go to the top and at night, could take half-day to full day)
- Notre Dame
- The Louvre (will take you at least a few of days if you want to see everything. Book your ticket online prior.. *totally saved me time from the huge lines*)
- Musee d'Orsay
- The Champs-Elysees/L'Arc de Triumphe
- The Pompidou, Sacre Couer, Latin Quarter, Seine front
- Take a river cruise or bus tour (I recommend night one)
- Dine at least a couple of times at a bistro or brasserie (watch out for the prices and avoid going to tourist traps). I had the best breads and oddly enough, potato au gratin there.
- Drink good coffee and espresso
- Cheap shopping in Montmartre
- If you need a recommendation on where to stay, I had a very good experience at a small hotel in Montmartre for 60 euros with a pretty big breakfast.

Not-so-Good things to Watch out for in Paris:
- If you want better service, again smile and speak French. "Bonjour! Si vous plait, ou est le..." Will help you out enormously as it did for me. (telling them you're Canadian may help! )
- Flashers... Ew! but indeed..
- Watch out for pickpockets. They didn't hit me, but hit some friends of mine when they went (they were probably too oblivious to notice.. the thief luckily only took cash, no cards). Be aware of your surroundings at all time, put your bag in front of you, wouldn't hurt to have a theft-deterant bag.
- On the sidenote of pickpockets... watch out for the Gypies (ladies in headscarves and long skirts) and for kids who may be trying to sell you stuff. Always a topic when it comes to Paris, haha. Flat out tell them "No!", ignore them or walk the other direction.
- Don't take anything anyone tries to give you on a bus or train.
- Give yourself a lot of time in train stations and at the airport. Many public places don't have enough signs, let alone signs in English.

[pointofnoreturn]

Yes, my friend and I were so happy to leave Paris. I felt bad for her because the entire time she was there, 75% of the metro tickets she purchased would not work at all. She had incredibly bad luck with that!

I really advise you to cut your visit to Paris in half and apply the days elsewhere. You'll be grateful! We covered so much stuff in 4 days and visited almost everything and did not feel rushed or anything so that's saying enough.

[me]

Hi, Azotos!

hope you find the info here on Kim's bulletin board helpful.

London has lots to see. but, unfortunately, it's extremely expensive!

skipping over places i've never been . . . went to Nice when i was about your age. my theory is that the French took a page from the Viking naming method: just as Iceland isn't ice & Greenland isn't green, the people of Nice aren't particularly nice!

if you want to stay in a nearby place where i found the people to be very nice, just East-Southeast of the French Riviera is an Italian national park in the Italian Riviera called the Cinque Terre, the five lands. the 5 villages here hold much charm!

Cinque Terre, being a UNESCO World Heritage Site, is covered extensively elsewhere, just do a search.

Pisa is a short train ride from Cinque Terre but actually, i'd suggest doing Pisa as a day trip from Florence. there are other Tuscan towns that are worthwhile, as well. one that i really enjoyed was Siena, a ways South of Florence.

Siena's town hall square & cathedral are also magnificent.

going Pisa - Rome - Florence is an odd path. the Pisa to Rome train is via Florence, and mostly requires a train change in Florence! [Pisa to Florence is 100 Km, then 275 Km more to Rome]

have fun with your planning!

- d

P.S. check with www.RailSaver.com and plug-in your travel plans to see which railpass, or just point-to-point tickets, is best for your trip. also, sometimes flights are cheaper. the Eurostar, chunnel train, is very expensive!

[me]

Oh, Azotos,

what are your interests? perhaps we could suggest some other places that you might also enjoy.

i really enjoyed Austria: Innsbruck, Salzburg & Vienna.

- d

[Eagle]

azotos, first of all, welcome! I have a few comment to add to the great advice from the others. In reading some of the other Posts, a few thoughts occurred to me, so I'll comment on those before getting to your Itinerary.

mareecio - regarding your experiences in Paris, although your first language is French, I'm curious whether you speak primarily Quebecois or Parisian French? I've been told by a couple of very knowledgeable people that the "language discrimination" in France is often worse against people from Quebec than it is against English speakers. I wonder if that was the problem?

It's interesting that of the comments so far, a "summary" of the opinions seems that while most are not big fans of Paris, they thought the city was beautiful and it had a lot to offer in terms of things to see and do, but the people were a bit miserable. I was also concerned that I'd be subjected to discrimination simply because I'm an English speaker, but I found that I was treated reasonably well and I enjoyed Paris far more than expected. Aside from really BAD service in a restaurant in the Rue Cler area one night, I didn't have any real problems (although those darn Gypsies are a #$@% nuisance!!!). I did have a bit of trouble with the language, and will be working on that before my next visit. I plan on returning soon as there's lots left to see. Now to your Itinerary.

As mentioned by the others, it would help to know a bit more about your situation. For example, where are you flying from? Also, is there a reason you've scheduled such long stays in Paris and Rome? Finally, when are you going?

> Fly to London (5 days) - as mentioned, this will only provide 4 days of touring, as you'll lose the first day in flight times and time zone changes. You'll also be suffering from jet lag, so probably won't see as much as you had planned in the first few days. Is there any way you could extend this by a day or two? There's many day trips you could take from London also, which will require more time (Stonehenge, etc.).

> Take Chunnel to Brussels (1 day) - travel on the EuroStar is a bit "pricey" but if you have a Rail Pass there's a discount. Depending on when you're going, note that the EuroStar will be switching to St. Pancras station in November.

> Train to Antwerp (2 days) - why Antwerp?

> Train to Bruges (1 day) - any possibility of adding a day here?

> Train to Paris (10 days, possibly more) - again, that's a long time in Paris. It can be an expensive city, so not sure what kind of a budget you're working with? Which sights in Paris are you planning to visit? A Paris Museum Pass would be a really good idea!

> Train to Avignon (1 day) - this will be a long travel day. I haven't checked but hopefully there's a TGV (fast train) on that route. Reservations will be required, even with a Rail pass. It's somewhat surreal to be travelling at 200 MPH in almost silence!

> Train to Cannes (1-2 days) - looks OK.

> Train to Nice (2 days) - looks OK.

> Train to Pisa (1 day) - I heartily agree with David on this point! In my view, the Cinque Terre would be a much better destination! If necessary you can take a day trip to Pisa. Even a half day visit is enough to see the Tower.

> Train to Rome (7-10 days) - as the others have said, in terms of "ease of travel", it would be better to go to Florence next. Again, why such a long visit? Rome can be very hard touring (as I found out!), so be sure to pace yourself so that you don't get worn out. You might also enjoy stopping in some of the hill towns on the way to Rome for a couple of days, such as Orvieto or Siena.

> Train to Florence (5 days?) - Five days is a good time allotment for Florence (MTH, I'm sure you'll agree!), depending on what you want to see. If you get a chance take the Bus up to Fiesole for a look around. It's classic Tuscany, with elegant Villas and olive groves. One of the Hop On-Hop Off Bus tours goes there, so you could get off, have lunch and look around, and then catch the next Bus back to Florence. Hopefully you'll be up to the challenge of climbing the 432 steps in the Duomo!

> Fly home - you might want to use the airport in Rome as you'll likely find a greater availability of flights (again, not knowing where you are, that's difficult to say).

With six weeks or so to spend, if you adjust your Paris and Rome schedules you should have time for at least one other country. Switzerland and / or southern Germany (Bavaria) are good possibilities (Neuschwanstein Castle is interesting!). Also, no interest in Venice?

As this is your first trip to Europe, I would highly recommend that you read the Rick Steves book Europe Through The Back Door. It's an essential pre-read for travelling in Europe (not a book to be packed along though)!

As far as your parents worries about you travelling alone, this subject has been covered here on the Boards previously (I'd have to do some searching to find it though). Yes, absolutely - other young women your age (and younger) have travelled alone. You do need to practise some "common sense" safety, but I'll leave it up to the ladies here on Board to provide you with some good tips (as an "older" male, my experiences will be different).

One final point - you can buy your Rail Pass (and other items) from this website. The cost is the same as elsewhere, and it helps to support our efforts here. I'll provide a few thought on your Hostel questions later on.

Happy planning!

[freshsprout]

<<Yes, my friend and I were so happy to leave Paris. I felt bad for her because the entire time she was there, 75% of the metro tickets she purchased would not work at all. She had incredibly bad luck with that! >>

I hate to say this too, but when I finally got on (ironically) my Air France flight into Stuttgart, I was sooooo happy. And when I arrived in Stuttgart, I was pretty close to kissing the ground at the airport terminal.

Well, maybe that's a little too melodramatic.

[freshsprout]

Eagle - I wanted to add that actually 95% of the service I received in Paris was quite excellent! Most everyone - from the hotel, wait staff, stores, info. booth, etc. were very courteous, friendly to me. Granted that I first speak in French (then I'll kindly ask them to convert to English). And even though this goes against all of my typical feminist-self... I would definitely smile and try to look super cute and friendly. For some reason, it worked. I do believe the French are BIG into the 1.) Greeting 2.) Kiss and then 3.) Ask for your request.

Unfortunately it was more the everyday Parisians - ehh... Parisian men that gave me a tough time in certain occasions and they usually involved in the melting pot spots like train stations, the trains or buses and public sites. Of course it was never a problem say at the museums or in restaurants. And I don't recall having a bad experience with females though [except for those darn Gypsies ].

[mareeclo]

eagle said:

mareecio - regarding your experiences in Paris, although your first language is French, I'm curious whether you speak primarily Quebecois or Parisian French? I've been told by a couple of very knowledgeable people that the "language discrimination" in France is often worse against people from Quebec than it is against English speakers. I wonder if that was the problem?!

Eagle,

Yes I do speak quebecois, not parisian French and that might've been the problem. It was over 15 years ago though, maybe things have changed now. I have friends who live in the Paris area and I would probably go back and visit them over there, but I would not plan an extended stay in the city.

[me]

freshsprout said:

BIG into the 1.) Greeting 2.) Kiss and then 3.) Ask for your request.

KISS!!??!! Eeewww! is that, like, a quid pro quo to get a Parisian to grant a request??

freshsprout said:

[except for those darn Gypsies ].

i'm not entirely comfortable with the implication that "Gypsies" are genetically evil people. i think i have also described my interactions in purely negative terms. mea culpa.

i also know that the Roma people have a very bad rep, mostly they deserve it. but they are people. i read once about when a Roma "King" was in hospital at Dallas' main medical complex in the '80's, i think. thousands of Roma came to Dallas to show support - they were camped out on the med school campus grounds. they were very loyal to the leader. [the local population didn't look on it that way. they were seen as potential criminals, and a threat to order]

[mango]

I find these comments about gypsies offensive

if you do come to europe, please leave your prejudices at home.