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Post by sparat1k on Dec 22, 2008 23:21:00 GMT -5
My wife and I are planning a 90 day trip to Europe in May/June/July. I hope some members can chime in and give some advice and critiques. Flying DFW->Madrid Munich->DFW (may change this)  ***UPDATED*** 01/03/2009 |
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Post by Eagle on Dec 23, 2008 13:51:23 GMT -5
sparat1k, Welcome! I have a few thoughts to get things started.
First, it would help to know where you're flying from? I'm assuming from your Post that you're planning to use open-jaw flights, into Madrid and home from Munich?
Could you indicate if you're planning to visit the cities in the order you listed? I would probably have arranged this a bit differently.
In reading over your proposed Itinerarry, one thing that stands out right away is that I don't see any allowance for travel times between cities? Some of the trips will be quite short, others a bit longer so that has to be factored into the plans. I'm assuming you'll be travelling by train most of the time?
The times alloted for most of the cities looks reasonable, however there were a few that I'm wondering about.....
> Marseilles - 7 days. My preference would be a couple of days at most, unless you have a specific reason for staying there. Other small towns in the area (Arles, Avignon, Aix-en-Provence, Carcasssone?) would be more interesting IMHO.
> Genoa - again, unless you have something specific to see there, you could reduce time or eliminate this stop. This would provide some time for travel or your other destinations.
> Siena - this is definitely worth a visit, but 6 days seems a bit long? You could also consider adding Orvieto, which is in Umbria (south of Siena, towards Rome).
> Interlaken - I would probably drop one or two days?
> Brussels - again, I would probably drop at least one day.
> Spain destinations - Looks good, but I'll leave those for herrbert to comment on.
If you're not E.U. residents, I assume you're aware of the three month Schengen limit for visitors?
You didn't indicate whether you've checked any Guidebooks regarding the various places you've listed?
I'm sure the others will have lots of good suggestions. Good luck with your planning!
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Post by herrbert on Dec 23, 2008 16:37:26 GMT -5
Yes this looks good. 6 days for Madrid is good, it gives you some time to get over the jetlag (assuming you are from a cross the pond.) May is the perfect time to be here. During these 6 days you can make time to make daytrips to Toledo and Segovia. And possibiliy also Cuenca. Sevilla in 3 days is OK. The Alcazar, the Cathedral and the Basilique de Macarena are the must-sees in this city. Also take the chance to see a flamenco show here, in the old Jewish part of town. (Íf you stay at the Oasis-Hostel: they take their guests to a good show, not one of the fancy touristic shows, but the real stuff.) The train to Granada takes about 3 hours, so you need to check how you plan this little trip. (check the Renfe site for departure times, as there are only 3 or 4 trains a day - a buss can be a good alternative). In Granada you must see the Alhambra. It is recommended to get tickets for the Alhambra in advance, but if that's not possible, don't worry. you can get in at the day itself. In the morning the queues are long, but when I was there, I left around 14.00, and there was no queue at all !! The only thing is that they limit the number of visitors a day. I would recommend to get a cheap flight from Granada to Barcelona (Vueling, Spanair or Iberia), book way in advance to get a cheap seat. The trip by train is very long. 3 days in Barcelona is OK, but because of the flight from Granada, you'll lose part of the day, so if you haven't included travelling time yet, give it an extra day. 6 days in Brugge and Brussel seem a lot to me. In six days you can make some daytrips to Gent, Antwerp, Ieper and Leuven, but those will all be quick visits. For a first visit, I would limit the time a little bit and get to Brugge and Gent (either one of them, and visit the other one as a daytrip). Brussel is then possible as a daytrip, or as a place for 1 day. From Salzburg, check www.eisriesenwelt.at in Werfen. Together with the castle of Hohenwerfen in the valley it is a very nice daytrip, and you will at least see something of the mountains. (Salzburg is just a little bit too far north from the mountains.) No Amsterdam? |
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Post by madamtrashheap on Dec 23, 2008 21:02:20 GMT -5
sparat1k, there are a few cities I would question in terms of the time you intend to spend there. But again if you have the time to travel and part of your plan includes day trips and also time to just sit and watch the world go by then I understand why you have allocated so much time in some places. As per the others, I'd look at moving some of the days you have for Marseilles to Aix-en-Provence or even more time in Nice as from there you can easily visit places like Monaco, Cannes and St Paul de Vence. Plus it will be perfect weather for sitting on the beach and doing absolutely nothing for a day or two! Nice gets a bad rap on these Boards, and it's not without cause, but it is also a great place to use as a way to explore the Cote d'Azur so as long as you're aware of your personal security at night you'll be fine. As per Eagle, I'd also suggest leaving Genoa out, unless you have a specific reason/sight to see. You could always visit Genoa on your way from Nice to Cinque Terre for one night and spend the extra night in CT as it's another great place for hiking or just sitting and watching the sea. Naples - I'm a fan of Naples, but again it's one of those places you need to be aware of your personal security in and don't stray into the Spanish Quarter or off up the hill into the suburbs. I'd even suggest that you base yourselves in Sorrento (or Positano) for the Amalfi Coast part of your trip and do a day trip to Capri and then a day for Pompei and Naples. Alternatively, you could spend 3 nights in Sorrento, then on your way back up to Rome (once you've worked out the order of cities) you could spend a night in Naples as the food and 6pm passagiata is worth it. For Italy, I'm also going to suggest you look at staying somewhere around Lake Como (Tremezzo, Cadenabbia, Lenno or even Bellagio if you feel like spoiling yourselves) for 2-3 nights as it is just breathtaking and could be on your way depending on the order you choose to visit cities. Ditto for Interlaken. If you're planning on doing some adventure sports, then I understand you wanting to stay here for 4 days, but another suggestion is to look at staying in Luzern (Lucerne) for 2 nights and then heading up to Gimmelwald (you'll go through Interlaken) for 4 nights. That way you have 2 nights remaining if you still want to stay in Interlaken, or 2 nights to spend somewhere else. I'm a fan of Belgium, so 6 days in total would be fine by me, but again it depends on what you want to see and do (and eat!). Brussels is a great town, especially for the museums (art, beer and chocolate ones), food and nightlife, but I think that 3 nights (2 full days) would be plenty if you plan to see all those things. Three full days (4 nights) in Brugge will allow for day trips, especially to the WWI battlefields, Ypres/Ieper, etc. Not sure that I'd spend 2 full days in Cologne, but again that's dependent on what you want to see/experience. You could look at a Rhein Cruise for a day, say from Cologne to Mainz, which will take in the prettiest part of the Rhein around Koblenz and Oberwesen. The most popular tour operator for these is KD (Köln-Düsseldorfer) and they have several routes you can take, so have a look at their website www.k-d.com (English symbol on top left). You'll be able to book when you arrive, or can do it prior to arrival as it gets busy in Summer. WillTravel has been there more recently than me, so perhaps she'll have some suggestions. Berlin for 4 full days is perfect and Munich for 4 will allow time for castle day trips, Dachau and exploring the city. Once you've worked out the exact order you'd like to visit places, let us know as we will be able to suggest side-trips (eg Pisa between CT and Florence/Siena) and other adjustments so you get the best out of your time.
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Post by sparat1k on Dec 24, 2008 11:45:54 GMT -5
sparat1k, Welcome! I have a few thoughts to get things started. Glad to be here! yes that's correct, of course i can be flexible. I found a one-way ticket to madrid for $400! but the cheapest 1-way ticket back for about $1800!?! how strange is that! ya, thats a rough iternary, follow the mediteranean a bit, then head north. if you think there could be a better route plz let me know. one thing i haven't check is bus/train routes to and from the cities. yes hopefully a eurail pass will cover most of these. i was wondering if i could use marseilles as a base and see Aix, avignon, ect as day trips. would it be better to stay at those southern french cities rather than marseilles? yes i think you're right i might skip Genoa for some other better stops. in siena, i was thinking of using it as a base to take a couple of day trips to divita di bagnoregio, orvieto, cortona, etc. what are your thoughts? i've read from some people that Interlaken was their fav place. i want ample time to do at least 2 extreme sports while i'm there and some nice hiking/biking. although it may bankrupt me, i'm gonna do the 4 days there. i wanted to take a daytrip to anwerp from brussels, i may in fact cut a day. not sure though. yes, hence the 90 day trip :-) i JUST got my Let's Go Europe 2009 yesterday! thanks Eagle! |
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Post by sparat1k on Dec 24, 2008 11:55:55 GMT -5
i will! thanks!
good idea!
got it, i'll check that out.
how long? i was hoping to maximize the eurail pass.
k, i will.
ok i'll cut a day out of brussels and and take a day trip to gent.
ya i know, this one is gonna kill me, maybe i can find a way to squeeze it in.
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Post by sparat1k on Dec 24, 2008 11:58:28 GMT -5
sparat1k, there are a few cities I would question in terms of the time you intend to spend there. But again if you have the time to travel and part of your plan includes day trips and also time to just sit and watch the world go by then I understand why you have allocated so much time in some places. As per the others, I'd look at moving some of the days you have for Marseilles to Aix-en-Provence or even more time in Nice as from there you can easily visit places like Monaco, Cannes and St Paul de Vence. Plus it will be perfect weather for sitting on the beach and doing absolutely nothing for a day or two! Nice gets a bad rap on these Boards, and it's not without cause, but it is also a great place to use as a way to explore the Cote d'Azur so as long as you're aware of your personal security at night you'll be fine. As per Eagle, I'd also suggest leaving Genoa out, unless you have a specific reason/sight to see. You could always visit Genoa on your way from Nice to Cinque Terre for one night and spend the extra night in CT as it's another great place for hiking or just sitting and watching the sea. Naples - I'm a fan of Naples, but again it's one of those places you need to be aware of your personal security in and don't stray into the Spanish Quarter or off up the hill into the suburbs. I'd even suggest that you base yourselves in Sorrento (or Positano) for the Amalfi Coast part of your trip and do a day trip to Capri and then a day for Pompei and Naples. Alternatively, you could spend 3 nights in Sorrento, then on your way back up to Rome (once you've worked out the order of cities) you could spend a night in Naples as the food and 6pm passagiata is worth it. For Italy, I'm also going to suggest you look at staying somewhere around Lake Como (Tremezzo, Cadenabbia, Lenno or even Bellagio if you feel like spoiling yourselves) for 2-3 nights as it is just breathtaking and could be on your way depending on the order you choose to visit cities. Ditto for Interlaken. If you're planning on doing some adventure sports, then I understand you wanting to stay here for 4 days, but another suggestion is to look at staying in Luzern (Lucerne) for 2 nights and then heading up to Gimmelwald (you'll go through Interlaken) for 4 nights. That way you have 2 nights remaining if you still want to stay in Interlaken, or 2 nights to spend somewhere else. I'm a fan of Belgium, so 6 days in total would be fine by me, but again it depends on what you want to see and do (and eat!). Brussels is a great town, especially for the museums (art, beer and chocolate ones), food and nightlife, but I think that 3 nights (2 full days) would be plenty if you plan to see all those things. Three full days (4 nights) in Brugge will allow for day trips, especially to the WWI battlefields, Ypres/Ieper, etc. Not sure that I'd spend 2 full days in Cologne, but again that's dependent on what you want to see/experience. You could look at a Rhein Cruise for a day, say from Cologne to Mainz, which will take in the prettiest part of the Rhein around Koblenz and Oberwesen. The most popular tour operator for these is KD (Köln-Düsseldorfer) and they have several routes you can take, so have a look at their website www.k-d.com (English symbol on top left). You'll be able to book when you arrive, or can do it prior to arrival as it gets busy in Summer. WillTravel has been there more recently than me, so perhaps she'll have some suggestions. Berlin for 4 full days is perfect and Munich for 4 will allow time for castle day trips, Dachau and exploring the city. Once you've worked out the exact order you'd like to visit places, let us know as we will be able to suggest side-trips (eg Pisa between CT and Florence/Siena) and other adjustments so you get the best out of your time. excellent suggestions, i'll update my itenerary. |
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Mikul
Senior Travel Member
Posts: 82
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Post by Mikul on Dec 24, 2008 14:03:38 GMT -5
I was in Spain for 4 weeks this past May and into June and stayed in Salamanca for 2 weeks. The city is a university town, meaning lots and lots of bars on every street. The Plaza Mayor is absolutely gorgeous at night! We were short on time and were only able to do Sevilla, Cordoba, Segovia for one day. But were able to spend the night in Granada and Madrid. I will see if I can try to find some pictures from my trip.
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Post by herrbert on Dec 24, 2008 14:42:54 GMT -5
According to the Renfe site, Granada - Barcelona takes about 12 hours, but it is a nighttrain, so you won't loose that much time. But be aware that for nighttrains you need reservations, and also need to get a ticket for a bed (couchette). Both the reservation and the bed are not included in the railpass.
Clickair is the cheapest airline. if you book ahead you can have a ticket for 45 euros, all included.
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Post by herrbert on Dec 24, 2008 14:51:46 GMT -5
Ooh, one thing about Vienna. I think 3 days is short, but it also depends a bit what you want to do there. If you like museums, a longer stay is something to consider. Also if you want to make a daytrip to Bratislava, which is about an hour away, by either train or boat, you will need an extra day there.
The trip to Gibraltar from Sevilla takes a lot of time. If you like to make a daytrip from Sevilla, I would recommend either Cadiz or seeing Arcos de la Frontera. (check which company has busses going there, and from which busstation they leave, as Sevilla has more busstations)
Cordoba makes more sense as a stop between Madrid and Sevilla. The tickets for the AVE are pretty expensive (and I think not covered by railpass, but not sure about that.) If you leave Madrid early enough, you will have time to see Cordoba in the afternoon, and arrive in Sevilla in the evening.
Salamanca in my opinion is too far and too beautiful to see as a daytrip from Madrid. You would need at least a night here (if not two.) A daytrip would not do it justice. You can add enough places and cities in Spain, to keep you here for more than a month, but maybe it is wiser to leave some for a future trip.
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Post by sparat1k on Dec 24, 2008 17:11:00 GMT -5
According to the Renfe site, Granada - Barcelona takes about 12 hours, but it is a nighttrain, so you won't loose that much time. But be aware that for nighttrains you need reservations, and also need to get a ticket for a bed (couchette). Both the reservation and the bed are not included in the railpass. Clickair is the cheapest airline. if you book ahead you can have a ticket for 45 euros, all included. 45 euros sure is reasonable! i'll check this out, thanks herrbert! |
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Post by sparat1k on Dec 24, 2008 17:19:09 GMT -5
thanks for input, a stop in cordoba it is then.
i'll do 5 days in madrid and 2 in salmanca.
thanks again herrbert!
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Post by sparat1k on Dec 24, 2008 17:20:42 GMT -5
I was in Spain for 4 weeks this past May and into June and stayed in Salamanca for 2 weeks. The city is a university town, meaning lots and lots of bars on every street. The Plaza Mayor is absolutely gorgeous at night! We were short on time and were only able to do Sevilla, Cordoba, Segovia for one day. But were able to spend the night in Granada and Madrid. I will see if I can try to find some pictures from my trip. thanks mikul, that would be awesome! salamanca sounds nice, i may have to give it 2 nights rather than one. look forward to your pictures and input on the other cities. |
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Post by sparat1k on Dec 24, 2008 17:29:09 GMT -5
i've updated my itenerary again.
i'm a day over. i might not do amsterdam, because i feel it deserves more than 2 days. might have to pick it up on my next eurotrip.
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Post by herrbert on Dec 24, 2008 18:55:43 GMT -5
2 full days in Amsterdam is about what you need to see the city. It's a compact city, which means you can get around by walking, especially if your hostal is in the center. In my opinion the must sees are the van Gogh Museum and the Anne Frank House. 2 other sites (the Rijksmuseum and the Stedelijk Museum) are undergoing renovation. Which means you can only see a small part of the collection.
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