24 Days in Europe! Need help planning~

[misera]

Hi!

My friend and I were attempting to do all the planning on our own with just searching on webpages and asking friends in Europe and here but we're running into walls

So far our schedule:

Arrive in Amsterdam at 2:10PM May 11th 2010

Amsterdam : 5/11 & 5/12 (Day stuff + Night life... hostel.. day stuff again)
5/12 @ 11:28PM leave Amsterdam to Berlin (Arrive at 12:11PM 5/13)

Berlin: 5/13 & 5/14 tours & hostel stay, leave at night or early morning

Wroclaw : We're running into a problem in finding fares from Berlin to Wroclaw definitely need help here! As for what we're doing, a friend lives in Wroclaw so all we're doing is visiting her. She's an exchange student here right now so we don't need a long visit, just want to see her area Soo, another 2 day stop. 5/15-5/16
*update edit*: Polish friend just found the fares from Wroclaw-> Berlin, Berlin -> Wroclaw listed at 19 Euros one way on polish website so we're good now! 11:30AM leaving time, 4 hour train ride.

Prague: 5/17-5/18 There's a city/boat tour. Otherwise, random wandering of the city. Hostel stay and then leave at night again.

Munich: 5/19-5/20 Tours? + night in a hostel, train ride at night/early morning

Venice: 5/21-5/22 Gondola ride, walk around.. brother says takes maybe a day?.. Anyway another night stay and another train ride

Zurich: 5/23-5/24 We aren't very sure what to do here yet.. so many pretty places...

Paris: 5/25-5/26 .. Some stuff planned for the day and then my friend and I split up (she's meeting up with her BF there and I go to Austria to meet up with friends).

5/26-6/3 separate plans, her's planned and all.. mine:

5/26-5/29 Austria with friends
5/30-6/2 Hungary with friend
6/2-6/3- back to Amsterdam for flight @ 7AM back home!

Can you guys please please critique/help on the transportation? I know we'd be crazy tired for the first 2 weeks, but I think we can handle it.. We're thinking about getting the global rail pass but my little brother says he got it but still had to pay quite a lot for separate passes that it didn't cover. And how come Poland dropped off the global railpass list? Thanks in advance! P.S. I ordered that Europe through the backdoor book..


edit: updated berlin-wroclaw transportation issue Also, we're gonna rent some bikes in some countries to travel around the city in parts of the places...

[Eagle]

misera,

Welcome to GFE! I've had a brief look at your proposed Itinerary, but will need to spend more time with it to offer too many suggestions. However, a few comments and questions to begin with.

Munich - what questions do you have regarding tours? With only one night there, you're not going to have much time for day trips. Is there any possibility of extending your time there? Typically, visitors to Munich visit either the Castles in Fussen (Neuschwanstein and Hohenschwangau) and / or Dachau. Those are both easy day trips from Munich. However, the city of Munich also has an enormous number of sights to see. You might have a look at www.radiustours.com for details on day tours that might interest you.

Venice- Gondola rides tend to be somewhat expensive. Be sure you budget for them. I've watched numerous bored-looking tourists being ferried around by an even more bored-looking Gondola operator who was rendering a somewhat "un-enthusiastic" rendition of Santa Lucia or other well known Italian song. Neither party looked like they were enjoying the experience.

Zurich - you might consider Lucerne instead, as it's incredibly beautiful and more of a "small town" feel. I'll be in Lucerne in a few months, so will have more information then.

Paris- if you're planning to visit any of the Museums or other sites, you might consider at least the two-day Paris Museum Pass. It's a good value if you visit a lot of the sights covered by the Pass, and at best it will minimize your time waiting in queues.

Regarding transportation, travel by train will be the best option in the majority of cases. For rail trips of longer than about eight hours, I'll have a look to see if the budget airlines offer trips between the same cities. However, with budget airlines it's important to remember that they have severe weight limits (ONE carry-on only) and tickets are usually non-refundable and non-changeable once purchased. Also, some budgets use very out-of-the-way airports, so that adds time and cost getting back and forth to the airports from the city centres.

Your brother was correct in that Railpasses DO NOT include the reservation fees that are compulsory on some trains (usually the fast trains such as the TGV in France). I usually try to calculate the approximate amount that P-P tickets would cost for the rail trips I'll be taking, and then compare that to the cost of the Railpass plus reservation fees (P-P ticket include reservation fees where these are required).

It's good to hear that you've ordered Europe Through The Back Door. That will provide you with a lot of information to ensure your trip goes smoothly. You might also want to download the free PDF Rail Guide from www.ricksteves.com/rail/ as that will answer a lot of your rail questions.

Good luck with your planning!

[misera]

Thank you so much for responding!!!!! I think what we like to see is some main feature (like a castle) and then just relax/city life to see how it is there. Something we probably won't do as much if we ever came back and concentrating on being super tourists and fitting everything in.

Munich: Yea I was wondering if it would be enough time to see castles since they also require time to get to. There wasn't much else we really really wanted to do there though. We were staring at the Neuschwanstein castle picture for a while Thank you for the radius free tour site!! That's perfect What do you think of the Neuschwanstein tour + the 2 hour tour radius free tour? And then any extra time we have we'd just shop around and eat random food.

Venice - Aww boring? Dernit!! An anime I watched in the past made gondola rides seem so nice and relaxing lol. Ok I'll ask my brother again about his opinions.. he did mention they were extremely expensive too..

Zurich - Hmm good suggestion! I'll check with my friend on that! We're not attached to Zurich, just want to feel the prettiness Oh I do have a question... do you have any idea how cold it would be in Switzerland mid-May?

Paris - Ok we'll look into the museum pass~ My friend loves museums Since we're going to be splitting up on the 26th, do you think it would be ok to stay in Paris an extra day and tour on my own or if it's safer to head straight to Austria to visit my friends there?

Thanks for everything and all the guides/websites!!!!

[Eagle]

misera,

A few comments on your most recent post......

Munich - The Neuschwanstein tour along with the free walking tour sounds like a good combination. While you can certainly travel to Fussen and see the Castles on your own, I chose to take the tour and felt that it was good value. One thing to note is that tours of the Castle are ONLY provided by the "official" Castle tour Guides, and it's necessary to make an appointment for touring at a specific time. The Radius Guide takes care of all the details, as well as the transportation to Fussen and back and provides a brief tour of the area and the history of the Castles and Ludwig's "unfortunate demise". Be sure to get a picture of the Castle from the metal bridge (hopefully, you don't have a problem with heights).

There's lots to see in Munich also, so just wandering about after the tours is good. You may want to have a look at a Guidebook to see if there's anything there that might be of specific interest to you. The Hofbrauhaus is a bit of a "zoo" so it's worth taking a walk through to have a look. The large ballroom on the top floor (where the Nazi's used to hold rallies) had an authentic Bavarian show when I was there last (guys in Lederhosen chopping wood, Frau's in Dirndl's, etc.).

Venice - you can certainly experience a Gondola ride if that's important to you. However, be prepared for the cost.

Switzerland - I haven't been in Zurich in mid-May, so don't know what the weather will be like. However, I have been in nearby cities in Austria, Germany and France and based on that, the weather will probably be starting to warm up quite nicely. However, there are never any guarantees with the weather, so it would be a good idea to "prepare for the worst and hope for the best". Have some clothes on hand for "layering" and some rain gear, and you should be fine.

Paris - I don't foresee any problems with staying an extra day. If you're staying in a Hostel, you may be able to find someone else to tour with for a day. One note for both you and your friend, is that you might buy a Carnet of tickets for the Metro (which is 10 tickets), as that's by far the easiest way to get around Paris. You might find it helpful to download a copy of the Metro Map at www.ratp.info/touristes/index.php?langue=en&rub=reperer&cat=plan-metro so that you can familiarize yourself with the routes. It's not as complicated as it looks - it's actually very easy to get around by Metro in Paris, once you figure out how it works.

More on Paris - with such a short visit, DON'T try to see all of the Louvre, as it's enormous. If you're interested in seeing the Mona Lisa, it's located in the Denon Wing. The Venus di Milo is in the Sully wing as I recall (used to be in the Denon wing, but they moved it last year). I would suggest NOT trying to enter the Louvre through the Pyramid, as there will likely be a huge queue. Enter either from the Subway via the shopping Mall, or from the "back entrance" in the Richelieu wing. Be sure to wait until you're actually going to start touring Museums to write the starting date on your Museum Pass, as once the date is listed the "clock is running"!

I really like the Musee d'Orsay as well - a fantastic collection of Impressionist Art in an elegant old train station. I believe there are renovations in progress this year, and some of the collections have been loaned to various Galleries around the world. However, there will still be lots to see!

Be sure to be vigilant when viewing the Mona Lisa, as I've been told that pickpockets "work" that area regularly. Wear your Money Belt! It pays to be vigilant in any areas that are crowded (Metro, etc.) and near the tourist sites (Eiffel Tower). Also, don't fall for the bracelet scam (which seemed to be a problem in the Montmarte area) or the gold ring scam. Do a Google search of either term to see the details. You might enjoy reading www.virginmedia.com/travel/destinations/features/tourist-scams2.php?ssid=1. I have no tolerance for scammers!

Cheers!

[misera]

Hi!

Thanks for all the help again!! Ok so we revised the schedule a bit with your suggestions and some other stuff.. we're reconsidering buying the pass with our revised schedule:

1. Amsterdam arrive at 2:10PM 5/11 Tuesday Use bikes to get around. Staying until 5/13, take a bus? Or do you know a way to get to Brussels easily? >_>

2. Brussels 5/14-5/15. Use metro to get around (advice from friend here from Belgium). 5/15 11:25AM to 13:15PM fly to Wroclaw.

3. Wroclaw - 5/15-5/17 Sat-Monday. Spend time with friend there.

4. Prague - 5/17-5/19 Mon-Wed. Drive/train to Prague, Polish friend joining us for this part.

5. Munich - 5/20-5/21 Thur-Fri. New Munich free tour + New Munich Neuschwanstein tour (2 days of tours total). Possibly meet up with brother's friend in Munich.

6. Milan - 5/22-5/23 Sat-Sun. Window shopping, La Scala?, museums?

7. Zurich - 5/24-5/25 Mon-Tues. Meet up with Swiss friend and tour city with him.

8. Paris - 5/26-5/27 Wed-Thurs. We'll get the Carnet of tickets And figure out what next.. today's goal is to get transportation down lol. Friend wants to check out the Curie museum~

9. Austria (me.. friend stays with her bf and others) Friday 5/28-6/3. Ok I really need help here.. Is there any better way to get from Paris all the way to Linz/Vienna/St. Florian ? I've been looking at plane tickets but they only go between London and Austria >< Also need to figure out how to get from Austria all the way back to Amsterdam ><

10. Amsterdam 6/3-6/4 -> Plane departs at 7:05AM on 6/4 so we need to get to Amsterdam by 6/3 Thurs night

[herrbert]

From Amsterdam the quickest way to get to Brussels is by Thalys train. That will take about two hours. By the way if you are flying Ryanair, you need to get to Charleroi (a.k.a. Brussels South for whatever reason) , and not to Brussels International Airport.

I don't understand, why you don't cross into Austria from Munich or Prague, but want to backtrack the whole distance from Paris. From Munich it's a short trainride to Salzburg. Or if you would go from Prague, it will take a bit longer to get to Vienna, but on your way to the west you can get to Linz (I would skip it, as your trip is already too packed with cities.) Salzburg and then Munich.

I would skip Milan and head to Zürich or even Paris directly to have a few extra days to spread out over all these cities.

[misera]

Hmm thanks for the info about Belgium!!

Because my friend needs to get to Paris by the 26th/27th to meet up with her boyfriend and I was going to go with her a few days before going to visit my friends in Austria. I'm now skipping Paris though. We're going to spend 1 more day in Poland and then on the 27th she'll get to Paris and I'll go straight to Austria from Zurich.

Milan not worth visiting? We just really wanted to pitstop somewhere in Italy But friend's boyfriend's mom didn't like Venice and my brother and Eagle here kept emphasizing how expensive it was (so we switched to Milan b/c another friend liked it). But now yet another friend really didn't enjoy Milan haha. We're all confused. I'll pitch skipping Milan/Italy altogether to my traveling buddy today. We're getting our ISIC cards done today! Mine has long been expired XD

[herrbert]

There will be always people who don't like a city, and people that do. I think Venice is fine, but just calculate that it will be a bit more expensive than other places. I think why most prople don't like it, is because the follow the string of tourists, and don't take the time or effort to wander off on their own, to discover the more unknown part of the city.

Milan hosts a couple of nice things. 1. the Duomo, which is a nice visit and 2. the painting of the last supper (for which you need a reservation. But besides that it's rather a big shopping mall. (which if you like that, is fine for you.)

Well if you skip Italy, you might find a nice place in Austria or Switzerland. From Vienna you can get to Salzburg easily and then head to Zürich. (or if you want to see a bit more of the mountains, Innsbruck would be nicer, although you could get to Werfen from Salzburg to see the Ice Caves of Eisriesenwelt, and then you will be in the mountains as well.