Need help to plan 2 months Europe trip

[sammihsu]

Hi,

My partner and I are going to Europe for our honeymoon for 2 months in September and October 2012. This is our second trip to Europe, so we have been to some places with tour last time....

We are planning to go to Greek islands- Athens, mykonos and satorini (maybe los and paros islands) for 11 to 13 days from Brisbane Australia to Athens.
We are thinking about to do island hopping, so we can stay in each islands for 2 or 3 nights and Athens for 3 nights. Is there any other better options?

We are also on a budget, we are planing to save 18000 to 20000 Australian dollars for everything, including lease a car, return flights and stopover in Dubai.

After Greek island we are flying to Barcelona and stay there for 2 to 3 days.
We are going to pick up a lease car for 30 to 35 days maybe in Barcelona or nice. Do you think we should fly from Barcelona to Nice? Because we heard Marseilles is dangerous, so my partner doesn't want to drive a car through there.

This is our schedule: :o

France- Provence(1 day) Nice(1 day)
Italy- Cique Terra(2 days)
Tuscany and sienna(2 days)
Florence (1 day, we have been there)
Almofi coast ( 3days, we have been there, but we want to go back again)
Assissi and Bologna ( 2 days)
Lake Como, lake grada and lake maggiore ( 4 days)
Milani (1day)
Vanice (2 days, we been there,so maybe 1 day)
Austria- Salzburg ( 2 days)
Hallstatt ( 1 day)
Innsbruck(2 days)
Switzerland- Zurich ( 2 days)
Lucerne(1 day)
Bern(1 day)
Matterhorn/zermatt(1day)
Geneva(1day) drop the car in the airport and we will fly back to Australia and stopover in Dubai for 3 days.

Can you please give me any suggestion for our trip? Thank you very much.

Sammi ;D

[Eagle]

sammihsu,

To begin with, welcome to GFE! I'll start the discussion with a few comments, and hopefully the others will add more.

The first impression that I got after reading your proposed Itinerary, is that it's far too busy, even for a two month time frame. IMHO, this doesn't allow for adequate travel time between destinations. Travel on your own will not be the same as on a tour. Especially for a honeymoon, my preference would be a more "relaxed" Itinerary. I especially don't recommend one-night stops.

Regarding your trip to Greece, you may find it very helpful to have a look at www.greecetravel.com It provides an enormous amount of information on not only Athens but also the islands. You may want to get some help from one of the Greek travel agencies listed on the website to set-up Ferries, transfers and Hotels in Athens and on the islands. I'd suggest making Santorini your last stop, as it has an airport with easy connections back to Athens (where you can connect with other flights). I'd highly recommend Aegean Airlines.

A few comments on some of the places you've listed...

> Provence & Nice - two days is not much time to see both areas

> Cinque Terre - you may want to add a day, as it's a beautiful area. I'd suggest booking Hotels as soon as possible.

> Siena and Tuscany (which also includes Florence) - not much time.

> Assisi & Bologna - I'd probably skip those if possible

> Lake Como, Lake Garda, Lake Maggiore - I'm not sure four days will be adequate. You might want to drop Lake Garda and split the time between the other two.

> Amalfi Coast - where are you planning to stay & visit in that area?

> Milan - I'd suggest dropping that.

> Venice - It's a bit "out of the way" from your other locations. As you've been there before, is that a really important stop?

> Austria - I'd probably drop Innsbruck and split the time between Salzburg and Hallstatt

> Switzerland - I'd suggest dropping Zurich and Bern and splitting the time between Lucerne and the Berner Oberland. While Zermatt and the Matterhorn is also worthwhile, the transportation links are not as efficient as to the Berner Oberland (outside Interlaken). Bern is also good, but not worth the time for just one day.

Finally, travel by car may be more convenient in some ways, but it's not the quickest or most efficient travel method. Travel by train (especially fast trains) will reduce your travel time between locations.

There are also some potential "problems" with rental cars:

> High fuel costs

> Tolls

> Insurance / CDW costs

> You'll need the Highway Tax Vignette to drive in Switzerland and Austria (expensive fines if you get caught without it).

> Driving in larger cities can be hazardous and stressful.

> Driving in Italy presents some "special" problems. Each driver will require the compulsory International Driver's Permit. Failure to produce an IDP if requested may result in fines on the spot! You'll also need to be very careful to avoid the dreaded ZTL (limited traffic) areas, which are becoming prevalent in many Italian towns (especially Florence). EACH PASS through one of the automated Cameras will result in a €100+ violation ticket, which you'll receive in the mail several months after you get home. You may also be charged an "administrative charge" by the car rental firm for providing your contact information to the authorities.

> It would also be helpful to have a GPS unit along with good Maps, as it's easy to get lost especially with road signs in an unfamiliar language.

You many want to have a look at www.roninrome.com for information on driving in Italy.

Congratulations and good luck!

[madamtrashheap]

To add to Eagle's always-excellent advice:

Hiring a car in one country and dropping it off in another usually incurs a much higher charge - check into it with different rental companies, but they all seem to charge a hefty fee. You could look at trains on some routes and then driving within a country (esp Italy as parts of Tuscany are best seen by car) before dropping the car off and training/flying to your next destination.

The order of your itinerary is good, but needs a little tweaking as there is a little bit of semi-backtracking: you could do Lake Como on your way to Switzerland from Venice. And I'd skip Milan too. You only have it for one day and unless you're going there for something specific (The Last Supper - book ahead, or La Scala) I'd drop it in favour of more time somewhere else.

As per Eagle, Provence for one day is probably not enough, regardless of where you stay. It will be the end of Summer/start of Autumn when you're there and it's just stunning. You could base yourselves in, for example, Aix-en-Provence and visit Nice (by train, don't drive as parking is annoying) for a full day. Or if you do drive, take a trip along the coast from Cannes to Monaco for great scenery.

Some additional websites for planning:
www.deutschebahn.com/de/start.html for general train information; it's the German train website, but gives good international train information too, and you can change the language to English if you need
www.viamichelin.com is great for journey planning and shows toll costs and any other information you'll need for each journey.

Happy planning and let us know what you come up with.

[sammihsu]

Hi Eagle and Madamtrashheap, ;D

Thank you so much for your help.

Our Europe plan has changed a little bit. This is our new itinerary.

1 Oct/ leaving Brisbane to Barcelona and stay there for 4 nights.

Then fly to Nice to maybe pick u our Peugeot lease car for 30 days (We have been to Provence, Monaco and Nice, so just go there to pick up the car, cos it is cheaper to get the car from France.)
Do you think we should do train trip to travel around Italy, Switzerland and Austria instead of driving a car? I am just wondering if the train will go to lake Como,cique Terra,amalfi, Tuscany, Hallstatt and some of the small towns? My partner thinks a train trip is a good idea, but it might coast more than drive a car? The 30 days least car costs around Au $1400, not sure about the train trip( We are on a budget.)

Cique Terra( 3 nights)

Lake Como and Lake maggiore( 2 nights)

Zermatt and Matterhorn (2 nights)

Geneva and laussanne ( 2 nights)

Bern, Lucene and Berner oberland ( 3 nights)

Is Berner Oberland in between lauterbrunnen and interlaken? We have been to both places, not sure where you mean, sorry.
Is Zurich worthwhile to visit?

Lucerne to Innsbruck( 2 night)

Innsbruck to Salzburg ( 2 nights)

Salzburg to Hallstatt ( 2 nights)

Hallstatt to Vanice ( 2 nights, my partner really likes Vanice and he wants to go back there)

Florence and Tuscany area (4 nights)

Amalfi coast( 3 nights) We want to stay in sarento, positano and amalfi coast one night each )

Back to Rome to drop our least car and catch the 12 days Cruise to Greek Islands and Turkey.

Rome to Brisbane via Dubai.

Please help me to check my new itinerary. We like outdoor scenery, we love Lauterbrunnen and amalfi coast and would love to visit some small towns like them, any other places like that? cos we would love to visit there. I also love the traditional European buildings.

Thank you very much for helping us with our trip.

[Eagle]

sammihsu,

I have a few comments on your revised Itinerary (in the same order as listed in your Post)....

> I tend to use rental cars "strategically" to visit locations that aren't well served by public transit, or where the timing doesn't fit my Itinerary well. In almost all cases, travel by well planned train or Bus routes is quicker than by car, and there are also no worries about parking, high fuel costs, tolls, vandalism, theft or traffic / parking fines. While a few of your trips will be a bit "challenging", most of the places you'll be visiting are well served by public transit.

> YES, there are good train connections to Lago di Como, Cinque Terre and some parts of the Amalfi Coast (Positano doesn't have a rail line, so travel by Bus from Sorrento is the best option). Tuscany is one area where rental cars can be an advantage for a day or two, but remember the issues I mentioned in my earlier post about driving in Italy. You DO NOT want to drive in Florence or Rome! Having a car in the Cinque Terre is useless, as most of the villages are "car free". You'd have to park the car and take the train anyway. Parking is very limited and you would be charged for it.

Now some questions and comments on each of your destinations:

> Cinque Terre - which of the five villages are you planning to stay in? What type of accommodations are you looking for?

> Are you planning to stay on Lake Como and Lake Maggiore for two nights each OR one night in each location???

> Zermatt and the Matterhorn is a bit "out of the way". As I recall, Zermatt is also a "car free" village, and the train station is some distance outside of town. You'll have to take a Bus or Taxi into town. One other point to note is that it's a VERY expensive area!

> I don't believe three nights will be adequte for Bern, Lucerne and the Berner Oberland. With such a limited time, I'd suggest focusing on Lucerne and the Berner Oberland. Is there any way you could increase your time in this area? Spending two nights in Lucerne and at least three nights in the Berner Oberland would be good.

> The Berner Oberland that I'm referring to is the area outside of Interlaken. To reach the area, you'll need to take the local train from Interlaken Ost (there are two stations in Interlaken) to Lauterbrunnen.

When you get there, you have some choices. You can continue towards Stechelberg, Gimmelwald and Mürren OR towards Wengen and Grindelwald. If you're going to be staying in Hostels, I would highly recommend the famous Mountain Hostel in Gimmelwald.

If you need directions on how to get to Gimmelwald, post another note. If you're planning on staying in Gimmelwald or Mürren, this is another area where a car is useless. You'd need to park the car at the car park in Stechelberg, and I believe there's a charge.

> I wouldn't bother with Zurich. Your time would be better spent elsewhere.

> Are you aware of the route to get to Hallstatt by train? Where are you planning to stay there? It will take the better part of half a day to get there from Salzburg.

> The trip from Hallstatt to Venice (note spelling of "Venice") will probably be a longer travel day. Were you planning to travel by train?

> What other parts of Tuscany are you planning to see besides Florence?

> With only three nights, you are NOT going to have time to see Sorrento, Positano and the entire coast. The Amalfi Coast is a relatively large area. That's an area I would definitely not recommend driving!

A few other concerns:

1) I'm still not sure you've allowed for adequate travel times between destinations. The Itinerary that you've proposed is going to need further planning to make it work well.

2) You didn't indicate your age. Some rental firms have age restrictions, but I'm not sure if these also apply to lease vehicles.

Cheers!

[sammihsu]

Thanks for ur help. My partner and I decided to buy a one month eurail pass and we will not
stop in France and drop matherhorn, Zurich, maybe venience and spend more time in berner oberland district.
We will do the amalfi coast after the cruise and spend more time there. Others we have to have more planes and do more
Research. Thank u so much.