25 Days Western Europe. Need Help Planning!

[tgiaa]

Planning to go for (25 +-3) days in June. 4 college graduates. Budget should not exceed 2400 euro.
We're debating if we should take bus/train or try train/car (only 1 driver)
This will be the first time for all of us, so we are uncertain as to how we should plan the trip, any help and suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Tentative schedule -
Landing in England (London?) 4 days
(optional)Netherlands (Amsterdam) or Belgium 2 days
Germany (Munich) 4 days
Italy (Venice) 3 days
(Rome) 3 days
France (Nice or Marseilles) 2 days
(Preferred, but is it too far?)Spain (Barcelona) (Madrid?)
France (Paris) 2-3 days
leave from England

Please give us advice on how we should travel (method) and where we should visit. We don't want to rush it so if we need to cut back on a country that is fine with us. Most of us are interested in sceneries and historical sites, planning on visiting 2 museums top

Thanks for all the help!

[Eagle]

tgiaa,

First of all, welcome to the Boards!

I'll have a closer look at your questions later tonight.

[Eagle]

tgiaa,

As this is a first trip to Europe for all of you, my first suggestion would be for all to read the Guidebook EuropeThrough The Back Door. That will provide a lot of good information on "how" to travel in Europe, and covers things like Itinerary planning, Rail Skills, avoiding scams, etc.

Regarding your budget, could you clarify if thats €2400 each or for the entire group??? Does that include your flights?

I would highly recommend using "open jaw" flights, rather than return flights from London. That's not only more cost effective but will also provide more touring time, as you won't have to spend time returning to your starting point.

Be sure to allow for your flight days. You didn't say where you'd be departing from, but you may arrive in Europe the day after you leave your home airport.

When planning your cities and routes, it's very important to allow adequate travel times. In each case every location change will normally require at least half a day, and sometimes longer.

Regarding each of your intended destinations and order of visits.....

> London - 4 days is good

> Amsterdam or Belgium - these are a bit "distant" from your other locations, so I'd probably skip them this time, unless they're really important

> Paris - 3 or 4 days would be good (you might include a day trip to Versailles)

> Munich - 4 days is good (what are you planning to see & do there?)

> Venice - 3 days is good (I find that Venice tends to be a bit more expensive than other locations in Italy, so that may be a concern if you're working with a tight budget)

> I notice that Florence isn't on the list? That's a logical stop on the way from Venice to Rome. Have you considered Siena or the Cinque Terre?

> Rome - I'd suggest allowing at least 4 days for Rome, as there's a LOT to see

> France (Nice or Marseilles) - they're difficult to fit with the other locations that you're visiting. If you're really intent on visiting that area, my suggestion would be Nice (I'm not a big fan of Marseilles)

> Spain (Barcelona and/or Madrid) - this should be possible, as it's relatively easy to use budget flights from Rome to Barcelona. However, using open jaw flights to and from Europe would definitely work better in this case. You could (for example), end your trip in Madrid and return home from there.

In order to plan specific sightseeing in each place you visit, have a look at country or city specific Guidebooks. You could check Rick Steves, Lonely Planet, Frommer's, Let's Go or others.

I'm assuming that you're planning to travel in June 2012, so it would be a good idea to get some arrangements in place SOON! Were you planning to pre-book accommodations?

Good luck with your planning!

[tgiaa]

Hi Eagle,

Thank you very much for your suggestions.

First of all, want to clarify some details. 2400 Euro each is what we are looking at, not including the flight in, but the cost to travel inbetween countries will be included.

would really prefer to do open jaw flight but we're concern that the ticket cost will go up by a lot. Will have to do some more research to figure this out. Meantime I did some research based on your suggestion and came up with two options

Going to just make up the date for now to make it more clear
1st one is a round trip route
- Land in England London (6/1 - 6/3)
- EuroStar to Brussle (6/4-6/5)
- Train to Munchen (6/6 - 6/9)
- Overnight train to Venice (6/9-6/11)
- Train to Florence (6/12-6/14)
- Train to Rome (6/15-6/18)
- Plane to Barcelona (6/19-6/21)
- Train to Madrid (6/22-6/25)
- Overnight train to Paris (6/26-6/28)
- Back to london

Route 2

- Land in Madrid (6/1-6/3)
- Train to Barcelona (6/4-6/6)
- Plane to Rome(6/7-6/10)
- Train to Florence (6/11-6/13)
- Train to Venice (6/13-6/15)
- Overnight Train to Munchen (6/16-6/18)
- Munchen to Paris (6/19-6/22)
- Train to England (6/23-25)

Some specific quetions:
Is germany worth going to? or should we drop it alltogether.
How does Eurail Pass work if we plan to go this route? Is there any discount for youth?

Again, thank you very much for the help.

[Eagle]

tgiaa,

we're concern that the ticket cost will go up by a lot.

According to an article I read in the paper this morning, airline ticket costs are likely to increase substantially this summer anyway due to the volatile fuel costs. The article stated this is likely to start in March or April, so you may want to get your flights booked soon.

Of the two Itineraries you posted, I'd suggest using the first one (with a slight change). As this is your first trip to Europe, starting in London will provide a much more "gentle" introduction to European culture.

However, it would be more efficient to travel London > Paris > Brussels > Munich. If you decide to use return flights to London, it will be faster and more efficient to travel via budget airline from Madrid to London. When you're deciding between return or open jaw flights, be sure to include the cost of returning to your starting point in the calculations.

When travelling with budget airlines, they often use a sliding scale with prices increasing as the flight fills. Therefore, those that book early get the cheapest seats. There are usually no reserved seats, baggage limits are often somewhat "restrictive" and tickets are usually non-refundable and non-changeable once booked. Be sure to read the "Terms & Conditions" carefully!

It appears that you haven't finalized your dates yet? As you'll be travelling to London, it would be a really good idea to avoid travel there during the Olympics, as lodgings will be EXPENSIVE and probably hard to find.

Taking an overnight train to Venice is certainly one possibility, however I prefer to travel that route during the daytime. When considering overnight trains, be sure to check to ensure there are no changes in the middle of the night. If that's the case, you won't be getting much sleep!

How are you planning to carry your travel funds? Using an ATM card is the best method, but note that your travel funds must be usually be in a chequing account with a four-number PIN. It's a really good idea to carry a "backup" ATM card if possible, in case there are any problems with the primary card.

Good luck with your planning!