My Revised Itinerary!! PLEASE COMMENT!

[chelsealynn]

So I posted my original itinerary here and with helpful comments from everyone I have now revised it!! Here is my new itinerary!

Fly into Glasgow, Scotland (2 nights)
York England (1 night)
London, England (3 nights)
Brussels, Belgium (2 nights)
Amsterdam (3 nights) with day trip to Haarlem
Berlin, Germany (3 nights)
Munich, Germany (3 nights)
Salzburg, Austria (2 nights)
Vienna, Austria (3 nights)
Bratislava, Slovakia (1 night)
Prague, Czech Republic (3 nights)
Krakow, Poland (3 nights)
Athens, Greece (4 nights)
NEED HELP WITH OTHER CITIES IN GREECE TO VISIT!! WANT TO STAY ON MAINLAND. TOO MUCH TRAVEL TIME TO GET TO ISLANDS!
Venice, Italy (3 nights)
Florence, Italy (3 nights)
Rome, Italy (3 nights)
Manarola, Italy (3 or 4 nights) GOING TO BE VISITING SMALL TOWNS AROUND CINQUE TERRE AREA
Tuscany, Italy (2 nights)
Barcelona, Spain (4 nights)
Cordoba, Spain (3 nights)
Sevilla, Spain (3 nights)
Portugal (Need suggestions on places to visit in Portugal!!!)
Madrid, Spain (3 or 4 nights in Hostel then I want to be in that program Pueblo Ingles where you go for a week to this small town and help spaniards speak english, free accomodation and food)
Paris, France (3 nights)
Then fly home to Vancouver from Paris.

Does anyone have any suggestions about places I may of left out that are must sees? I need some ideas of places to visit in Spain, Italy, Greece and Portugal!!!

And also does anyone know much about night trains? Do you know if there is a night train to get to Greece? I cant seem to find that information out. I know I will be taking a night train from Amsterdam to Berlin but I want to know if there is one from Berlin to Munich?

Thanks!

[Eagle]

chelsealynn, I have a few comments and a few questions regarding your revised Itinerary. This version still seems to be quite complicated and difficult IMHO. A few questions though:

1.) Is this the order you plan on visiting the various destinations? The sequence shown seems to "bounce" back & forth somewhat, rather than being in a logical and efficient order.

2.) Have you allowed for travel days, as you'll need these in many cases?

3.) Is there a reason you chose Glascow? You might find Edinburgh a more interesting stop. Also, you might want to allow two nights in York (that's one place I really want to return to!)

4.) Are you firmly committed to visiting Greece? Given the other stops you've listed, my preference would be to leave this for a future visit, and get more "quality time" in the other locations, especially as you only have Athens on the list at this point. I don't know of any other places on the mainland to add, but hopefully some of the others will have a few suggestions.

5.) You mentioned staying in Riomaggiore in your previous Post, but have now changed this to Manarola. Just curious on the reason for the change?

If you could provide further information, I'm sure the group here will be able to offer more suggestions.

Cheers!!!

[herrbert]

Hy Chelsealynn,

Yes there are nighttrains between Berlin and Munich. But also take a look at flights by www.germanwings.com, you can have a flight Berlin - Munich, at a price of 19 euros including taxes and fees!!! (a lot faster and cheaper)

If I am informed correctly than the nighttrain from Amsterdam to Berlin, is going via Brussels. So maybe you could take a cheapflight from London to Amsterdam, before visiting Brussels. (this way you don't need to travel back to Brussels to catch the nighttrain to Berlin).

My advice on Spain, you will find in the other topic.

[pointofnoreturn]

I honestly think you should add on 2 more nights to Rome. If you want to spend more time in Greece, I would take off Brussels and Munich and add it to an island or two. Actually, I would have taken 2 days in Athens, 3 nights on one island (take your pick) and 4 nights on Santorini. You can fly from Athens to Milan via easyjet if there's no cheap Athens-Venice flight then later take the train from Milan-Venice. I think Florence is actualyl closer so interchange the two cities then head Venice-Rome later.

If that's not in your best interest, other greek cities you could visit are Delphi, Olympos, etc. Here's a good site:

www.greektravel.com He also has a site for Athens as well!

[chelsealynn]

Eagle, yeah that was the order I was going to travel to each city. I thought it was logical haha but I dont really know anything since this is my first time planning any kind of trip. What order do you think would be more logical? I was trying to find the quickest way to go through Europe. I just kind of looked at a map of Europe and came up with that.

I definately want to go to Greece. I'd be happy just stopping in at Athens for 4 nights and then move on to Italy. I really want to see all the ruins in Athens! I have about 90 days for this trip not including the week in Madrid at that program I was talking about.

On my Itinerary I also forgot to put that I was going to stay 2 or 3 nights in Edinburgh. I chose to fly into Glasgow because it seems to be cheap to fly into there and then out of France.

I was going to stay in Riomaggiore but then was told about a great hostel in the town over Manarola (Ostello Terre 5 Youth Hostel). Do you know of any cheap but nice places to stay in Riomaggiore?

Thanks for all the feedback!

[pointofnoreturn]

Maybe you'd like to see the Attika Zoological Park which is just outside of Athens? I heard it's supposed to be really awesome and it would make for a great day trip. The website I gave you - the Athens website should have a whole page on that!

[Eagle]

chelsealynn, I'll try and have a closer look at your Itinerary over the next day or so, and try to offer some suggestions.

One comment though about the Hostel in Manarola. I had a brief tour of that particular Hostel in October. My impressions were that it's an awesome and well run Hostel (albeit a bit small). The only concern that I would have in staying there is the "lockout" period (I believe from 13:00-16:00). They really DO lock the doors, as I waited for about half an hour to get in to have a look; I spent the time visiting with a "guest" that was waiting to check-in (quite an interesting person and a veteran traveller, as it turned out). I would find the lockout a problem, as there are times I want to go back to the room in the afternoon and clean-up or rest. If that's not a problem for you, the Ostello 5 Terre is a good choice.

Cheers!!!

[pointofnoreturn]

I forgot - trains in Greece aren't really reliable so avoid any trains from country-country concerning Greece. Flight is your best option although there ARE trains/buses that go from city to city. I believe that there are quite some interesting cities outside of Athens that you could visit that have a significant role in history and mythology. Just check out the website I gave you and any guide book that includes Greece. They should list all the cities besides Athens that are good bets to visit.

[madamtrashheap]

chelsealynn, to tide you over until Eagle gets a chance to reply to your intinerary, can I make a few suggestions to make it flow a little better?

If you keep the first part as is, I assume you're taking the train (Eurostar) to Brussels from London. Otherwise, look at Herrbert's suggestion of flying to Amsterdam then train down to Brussels before the night train to Berlin as most night trains on that route require at least one change (some require 4 - yikes!). Not sure where Edinburgh fits in with the itinerary - once you've re-jigged it can you post again?

Assuming you do the about route, once you get to Krakow have a look at Skyeurope.com as they have flights from Krakow (KRK) to Athens (ATH), although they only seem to travel a few times a week on this route. This may suit your plans and budget, otherwise, and again this depends on how much time you have to play with, you could make your way to Venice then catch the overnight ferry to Corfu, Igoumenitsa or Patras and make your way to Athens from there (if in Corfu I'd fly, if in Igoumenitsa or Patras it will have to be by bus. In fact, if you get to Patras, you could visit places like the Corinth Canal on your way to Athens, or detour to Kalamata and Sparta for a night or two before reaching Athens). PONR's note about the trains is correct, so look into bus travel if you decide on this route (and want to marvel at Greek drivers' daring feats!). Just to throw into the mix, if you would rather stay in/around Athens for your visit, maybe take a trip to Delphi for the archaeology and ancient Greece ruins. Or further north to Meteora to see the amazing monasteries built into the cliff-faces. It's a different aspect of Greece, not ancient Greece per se, but still very important. If you do decide to get out to the islands, Delos (just off Mykonos) is a major site of importance in Greek history and mythology (birthplace of Apollo and Artemis, inhabited since 3rd Century BC), so the trip there would be worth it too.

Leaving Athens, I'd suggest flying to Italy and going from there. Getting to Barcelona from Italy is going to be easier than from Cinque Terre or Nice (French Riviera), but it will mean a little backtracking on your route. Perhaps fly to Venice, train across to Cinque Terre (Manarola), then to Florence and down to Rome to fly out to Barcelona. There are a few combinations as there are flights to Barcelona from both Rome and Venice that are cheap and regular (see Vueling, Ryanair or Myair for Venice. See Vueling, Air Berlin for Rome as examples). Or, and now this is getting confusing (sorry, synapses firing too much! ), you could fly from Athens to Rome, train to Venice, then Florence, then Cinque Terre, then back to Pisa to fly with Ryanair to Girona (cheap) and bus/train down to nearby Barcelona.

For Portugal, look at places like Lisbon, Braganca and Madeira (if you have time, but check flight costs first) or even a river cruise along the River Douro. Your destination will be determined by ease of transport I guess. From Madrid to Paris, look at flights rather than the incredibly long train ride.

Night trains are a great way to cover accommodation and transport in one swoop. Depending on the route, you can often go without needing to change trains, but unless you sleep like a rock you'll find that you don't get a huge amount of sleep on them.

Now that I've thrown all that into the mix...happy re-planning! ;D When you work out your itinterary, slot in the method of transport between each place as this will help you with time and monetary budgets as well as work out the best route to take. It's taking shape though!

[me]

although i know little about Greece, never been or even thought much about going, there are two places of great import to Church history: Corinth, not far from Athens, and Thessaloniki. think Paul's Letters to the Corinthians and to the Thessalonians.

the pictures i've seen of the Corinthian canal look impressive.

[madamtrashheap]

You're correct David, they are both interesting places to visit for all aspects of their history, however Thessaloniki is quite a way from Athens (a good day's travel), so it might not be in chelsealynn's reach for this trip. Corinth, however, is if you travel over land from the west coast or if you feel like a day trip from Athens - there's a (fairly good) train link between Corinth and Athens and there are busses that leave from the centre of each city too. Both methods travel over the canal at some point.

Hey, don't you have a Corith in Texas David?

[gelgameck]

Chelsealynn,
SO seriously: DO visit an island. Santorini is a must-see, Mykonos as well if you are a partier. There are also other islands not many tourists know about (and are thus less touristy) that are smaller, closer to Athens, and which you can visit on a day-trip, like Poros and Hydra. Other worthwhile day-trips would be to Sounion, Nafplion, or Delfi. Anyway, whatever you do, don't spend more than 3 days wandering around Athens... I believe you'll be bored. Also, make sure you know what to do when in Athens, because there IS a danger of finding yourself wasting time in the wrong areas!
Let me know if you need more help with that...
Safe travels!
Gelgameck
[e-mail]

[lia]

Ok, I've got some questions...first of all, what do you mean with "Tuscany"? That' a region, not a city (the one where Florence is, actually) and it's southern than Cinque Terre, so you could stop in Tuscany before you go to Manarola. The other question is about Portugal - in ehich period are you planning to go? And what are your interests? Parties? Music? Museums? I just LOVE Portugal!!! ;D For example, in June there's an interesting almost daily "event", they play fado (the traditional music) in the eléctrico (the city tram), that's nice..but there are plenty of things to see and do, it just depends on the period and on your interests!