5 weeks May-June

[bescrap]

Me and my friend will be backpacking Europe this May and June. We plan to buy a train pass and use that as our main means of transportation. We would like input on our itinerary...the number of days in each city, the travel between cities, if there are any other places we should defn see, etc...

Frankfurt (3 days)
Vienna (3)
Budapest (2)
Prague (3)
Munich (3)
Cairo (4) <- visiting a friend
Athens/Patras (4)
Travel Patras to Rome through Bari (1)
Rome (3)
Florence (3)
Venice (1)
Zurich (1) <- is it worth it???
Paris (4)
Brussels (1) <- worth it either??
Amsterdam (2)
Frankfurt (1)

We plan on taking budget airlines from Munich-Cairo, Munich-Athens, and possibly Venice-Paris (if we skip Zurich). Do any of you have experience with this type of travel or can you recommend another way to go?

[herrbert]

Definately use budget airlines, there are really a lot of them, and they are great.

Frankfurt for 3 days would be really too much. The old town is OK, but not for more that one afternoon. Personaly I would skip it, and try to fly into Berlin, or maybe Vienna. I would also recommend taking one day extra if you decide to start in Berlin or Vienna, as you will need one day to get over the jetlag.

I would also try to find a ticket to fly Athens - Rome, as the boat trip would be a pretty long one. My best guess would be to fly with Alitalia, Olympic Airlines, AirOne or Aegean Airlines. You have to see, with one has the best offer for the day, you need your tickets.

For Rome you will need more days. 4-5 days for sure. If you are heading for Zürich for 1 day. It would hardly be worth the effort, my advise would be to fly directly to Paris.

I would also substitude Brussels for Bruges.

I see you want to start and finish the trip in Frankfurt. If it is possible it would be better to use an open-jaw ticket. This would allow you to start in Frankfurt, but the leave from another airport in Europe. (as long as you airlines services, the airport you want to leave from)

[madamtrashheap]

bescrap, welcome!

Herrbert's points about Frankfurt and Athens-Rome are correct. Maybe spend the first day there and move on to another city (unless you have a specific reason for visiting) or if you think you'll be up to it, use Frankfurt as a transit point and move straight on to another city. Have you looked at flights from Athens to Rome rather than the ferry to Bari. There's nothing wrong with the ferry, and Bari is worth a short viist, but if you want to save time then flying is you best option. Have a look at www.ageanair.com. or www.alitalia.com (not always cheap, but they have specials) and look at both airports in Rome (Fiumicino and Ciampino). Paris for 4 days is a good start, 5 would be ideal, but no less than 4.

When you're in Cairo are you planning to spend the full time there or is your friend taking you somewhere else? Egypt is an amazing place so it's great that you're getting to visit there too.

Is this the order of the route you plan to take? If it is, that's fine, but you could alter direction slightly based on the suggestions and depending on where you ultimately decide to visit in your final itinerary.

[me]

regarding Frankfurt area - i would add that, in my own estimation, Mainz is a more interesting place. Johannes Gutenberg, credited with the invention of movable type used in printing, spent much of his life there. the Gutenberg Museum is there, near the cathedral. [ever heard of the Gutenberg Bible?]

i've read that many bankers from European Central Bank, and Deutsche Bundesbank, live in Mainz because Frankfurt is a culturally less interesting place.

more of Frankfurt was reconstructed in a modern style, unlike much of destroyed Europe which was mostly reconstructed to resemble its prewar state.

- d

[bescrap]

We based our frankfurt stop on the fact that we found a great deal on airline tickets there. With your advice, we've decided on keeping that stop to the first day, going to amsterdam for 2-3 nights, then back to frankfurt for a football match. We were able to get past the language barrior and order some tickets I think we may try and work Mainz in there, thanks for the tip.


We aren't exactly sure where to go in Cairo, other than the pyramids. Maybe a train to Alexandria or something like that...

We also decided to fly from venice to paris and also cutting out belgium for less travel time to more time in the bigger cities. So now the trip ends with Paris back to frankfurt since we're going to Amsterdam first.

And as for the boat ride, I think that'll be more of a recharging type thing and so we can say we're taking as many modes of transportation as possible.

Thank you all for your input!

[madamtrashheap]

bescrap said:

We aren't exactly sure where to go in Cairo, other than the pyramids. Maybe a train to Alexandria or something like that...

If your friend has been in Cairo for a while, then ask his/her opinion, otherwise a few suggestions are: the Pyramids and Sphinx (of course - just amazing, and sometimes a pyramid is open to enter, but only rarely), the Egyptian Museum (you could spend most of the day in here, it's just incredible), the Mosque of Muhammad Ali (not that one!) or the Alabaster Mosque which is in the Citadel of Cario (incredible architechture and culture, remember to remove your shoes), climb Cairo Tower (the TV tower) for amazing views of the city, visit the Sultan Hassan Mosque (it's on one of the EGP notes) as it's quite different in style to the Muhammad Ali Mosque, wander in Khan El-Khalili or the Cairo Suq (market area) which is a labyrinth of stalls, people and 24 hour shopping and has been the market place of Cairo for centuries (it's fine to walk around and you'll feel like you're lost but you're not, just walk in a straight line and you'll find an exit, and don't feel obligated by stall holders but be respectful). Oh, and a taxi ride is an interesting way to see the city - a full tilt and not always obeying the "road rules". At night, watch how the cars drive without lights and only turn them on occasionally - apparently to save the battery, I'm not kidding! The other sounds that will stay with you are car horns (that only stop btwn about 3 & 4 in the morning), the word "yalla" which means "hey" and the Muezin's call to prayer 6 times a day over the loud speakers around the city. Just an amazing, buzzing, chaotic city. The gates of Cairo (old city gates on the walls) and a short cruise on the Nile are also worth scheduling.

You only have 4 days in Egypt, so you'll find plenty in Cairo to see and do. It's a long trek to the other amazing places like Aswan, Luxor, The Valley of the Kings & Queens, Abu Simbel, the Red Sea and Alexandria so perhaps schedule a longer visit for some other time (10days is good). You spend 2 days in Cairo and 2 in somwhere like Aswan and fly to Abu Simbel for a few hours from there (convoy is slow, long and crowded). Or you could take the time to get down to Luxor for the amazing temples (train is 9hrs and either sleeper or day train) and spend time there too. Trains are the better form of transport, but slow and not modern (otherwise you have to organised to be on a bus as part of a convoy) and there is an overnight train from Cairo to Aswan (13hours from memory) if you really want to get down there. Alexandria is more Greek-Roman in sites, an interesting place to visit, but I wouldn't choose it over say Aswan or Luxor. At the time of year you're going the heat (a dry heat) will be pretty full on (nights are still cooler though) during the middle of the day, so you'll find yourself taking siestas (or the local equivalent ;D), which will cut into your touring time. Schedule your museum visit during the middle of the day as it's air conditioned and you'll spend lots of time there.Always carry bottled water with you, you'll drink more than you think. There are also rules about taking photos in musuems and at monuments - you have to pay to register your camera (digital or video) and this money goes towards the preservation of the site. There's also a thing called "baksheesh", which is a form of tipping that you need to be aware of as almost everyone asks for a tip - do a little research, carry small notes (EGP, Euro or US$) and understand it's purpose so you're not caught by surprise.

Fair point about the ferry from Greece to Athens - it'll be all about the sleep - and as long as you've factored the travel time on the boat and the train from Bari to Rome you'll be fine. If you spend a little time in Bari (not a lot is needed), then know that it's the resting place of St Nicolas of Bari, otherwise known as Santa Claus, and the San Nicola basilica was built to house his remains when they were taken from the coast of Lycia, now known as Turkey. Of course, there are many other resting places around Europe according to legend, but Bari was where they supposedly first landed.

Enjoy! ;D