You All Are So Helpful. My trip!

[jnnfsil]

My husband and I are planning on going to Spain-France-Italy and Greece for the month of July. Here is my itinerary. I am worried that I am going too heavy on the big cities. I would like a nice mixture of the city/country. I'd like to leave Greece off, but my hubby insists.
Here it goes.
Madrid-3 days
Paris-5 days, overnight train? to...
Venice 3 days, overnight train? to...
Brindisi ferry to Patras (1 day)
Athens-3 days
Ferry back (1 day)
Naples-2days
Rome-5 days
Siena-3 days (day trip to Florence)
Arles-3 days
Barcelona-2 days
Madrid-fly out

[Jules80]

Hey

many people say that athens isn't a great place to visit. most people recommend the islands. i've never been tho. 3 days in venice is a lot. i'd recommend 2 days venice, 2 days Siena and 2-3 days in florence. or if nothing else do siena as a day trip from florence as there is way more to see in florence.

Jules

[me]

i would recommend Jules' 1st suggestion. Florence & Siena are just different, and both are worthy of visiting.

the town square in Siena is one of my prized memories from Italy! the cathedral there is also very special. perhaps the weather was just nicer in Siena than in Florence when i was there, but (aside from the museums, of course) to me, Siena was the more delightful of the two.

also, have you thought about flight to &/or from Greece? that's a long boat ride! Jules is right again, i've also heard that the islands are much more interesting than Athens.

jules80 said:

i'd recommend 2 days venice, 2 days Siena and 2-3 days in florence. or if nothing else do siena as a day trip from florence as there is way more to see in florence.

[Eagle]

jnnfsil, first of all, welcome to the Boards! A few comments.....

I wasn't sure from your Post if your proposed Itinerary shows the order you plan to visit each city? IMHO, the order is a bit convoluted and inefficient and perhaps unrealistic. A month is not a long time in terms of European travel, and considering that you'll be travelling in PEAK tourist season it's advisable to plan as efficiently as possible.

One other important consideration - have you bought your air tickets yet? Given the distances you want to cover, I would highly recommend flying "open jaw" if possible (not sure where you're flying from?).

I tend to agree with you, in that it would be advisable to drop Greece from the list ("assume you will return"). As presently listed, your schedule is extremely limited and there isn't much (any?) allowance for travel times.

If you could provide more detailed information, I'm sure the helpful group here will be able to help you work something out.

Cheers!!!

[madamtrashheap]

Just to add to the others' comments while you're rescheduling jnnfsil:

Greece - if you do decide to keep it in, make sure you fly from somewhere like Rome, Paris, Madrid, or Barcelona (good flights to choose from) as ferry rides will take up far too much of your precious time. Athens definitely warrants 3 days (lots to see) and as you don't have more time to play with, leave out the islands until you can plan another visit there and cover a few at once for a good cross-section.
Naples - unless you have something pressing to see/experience here, most people don't enjoy Naples (I do, but only for short periods). I'd suggest either swapping it for Sorrento/Positano a little further south, or skipping it all together and just doing a day trip to Pompeii from Rome (if that was why you were in Naples). If you want to keep Naples, spend the money to stay in a more upmarket hotel (security and location will be better).

As Eagle said, I'm not sure if this is the actual route you were planning or just a list of the cities. Madrid (or Barcelona) to Paris would be better as a flight and there are a few cheap ones to be found. Jules and David's points about Florence vs Siena are very valid too. Siena to Arles is a long train ride (look at night trains, but there will be connections to make), so think about the order you're visiting the cities in and you'll come up with a more efficient route.

Here's a sample:
Madrid (3-4)
Barcelona (3)
fly to Paris
Paris (5) - allows for day trips to Versailles, Giverny
train (TGV combination) to Arles (3) - look at day trip to Avignon
Arles to Nice then night train to Florence (9pm train direct to Florence takes just under 10hrs)
Florence (4) (with day trip to Siena or reversed or Jules' suggestion)
train to Venice
Venice (2)
train to Rome
Rome (5)
fly to Athens
Athens (3)
Fly to Madrid

Tthat's just to give you some ideas, happy planning! ;D

[herrbert]

If you want to stick to the ferry, (it's an experience on itself.) then do the trip only one way. There are some flights available getting from Athens to Naples.

Personaly I wouldn't go to Naples, and skip it, and (like suggested earlier) do Pompeii as a daytrip from Pompeii, or stay at the Amalfi Coast, and do Pompeii as a daytrip from there.

I think Madrid and Barcelona needs more time. You can do Madrid in three days, but there are some really great towns in the area you can do as a daytrip. Toledo is a real must, but also Segovia is worth a visit.

I would reconsider about Arles, in a logistical way, it is a kind out of the way.

[lia]

I must say that I don't quite agree with the Venice thing..I don't think 3 days in Venice are too many, there isn't just Piazza San Marco to see, over there! Ponte dell'Accademia? Ponte di Rialto? Campo S. Margherita? Zattere? Punta della Dogana? Scala del Bovolo? And what about just walking around through a city unique in the world, stopping by at the "bacari" to have something to drink or eat..? 3 days are just enough to have a little taste of what Venice can be.. anyway, your trip looks gorgeous! (by the way, it's not only in Venice that I think that 2 days aren't enough..I think in 2days you don't get to "understand" a place)

[jnnfsil]

Thanks so much for the suggestions. I managed to get my husband to drop Greece, but now we need to add Switzerland instead. I also added four more days to the trip and got an open jaw ticket flying into Madrid and out of Milan. Does this make more sense?

July 1st: Madrid...4 days
July 5th: Barcelona...2 days (overnight train to...)
July 7th: Paris...5 days
July 12th: Bern...3 days
July 15th: Nice...3 days
July 18th: Cinque Terre...3 days
July 21st: Rome...5 days
July 26th: Sorrento...3 days
July 29th: Florence...3 days
Aug. 1st: Venice... 2 days
Aug. 3rd: Milan...2 days
Fly out Milan August 4th.

[herrbert]

This makes a lot of sense. Only there is not a lot to see in Milan, except the Duomo. So if time allows you to visit the center, and see the Duomo in one day, than I would transfer one of those two days to Barcelona.

Also I would consider flying Barcelona - Paris.

[madamtrashheap]

Shame you dropped Greece, but as we've all said...next time! And you get to visit Switzerland now, which is a bonus! And so glad you've made the other adjustments (esp to Sorrento - you'll love the Amalfi Coast), the trip looks excellent.

Ditto to Herrbert about Milan - it's the least "Italian" city in Italy, but again it depends on why you're going there. As you've found the open jaw flight, spend at least one full day there and do some sightseeing (Duomo, Galleria Vittorio Emanuele, Santa Maria della Grazie for The Last Supper - but book ahead), see what's on at La Scala (worth it just for the interior) and do a little shopping - window or real - before dinner. If you do end up with 2 full days there that's not an issue, but don't sacrifice time somewhere else for the extra day in Milan. Or, and it's just a suggestion, maybe you could spend an evening (and night) in Verona (on the way from Venice to Milan). I know that whole journey (Venice-Milan) isn't long, but it would be a nice stop-off for you and not take much time out of your plans.

Is there a reason you're taking the overnight train Barcelona-Paris and not flying? (look at www.vueling.com or www.easyjet.com for flights).

Bern is a really pretty town, but I'm concerned that you're not getting a good look at Switzerland (ie in the mountains). Are you training it from Bern to Nice? Again, that's a long hike (around 14hrs) so I'm guessing that's a nighttrain leg? If it is, make sure you get the train with the least number of changes (and at civilised times), the 19.04h ICE from Bern looks like the best choice. You'll enjoy the beachlife in July in Nice, just make sure you've booked ahead for accommodation as it's busy (come to think of it, that applies for pretty much everywhere in July).

Don't forget the Eurostar (Italy) trains that link Naples-Rome-Florence-Milan as they are faster and will help make the most of your time without travelling too much in Italy. Eg, from Cinque Terre-La Spezia-Pisa-Florence then Eurostar to Rome (that last bit only takes 1hr30).

Happy travels!