3 month western europe draft itinery

[aussiechick007]

hey... I think this may work... but I'm not sure if I'm missing out stuff, if theres somewhere better thats worth my time, etc etc...

here goes...

Madrid 4
Pamplona 2
Barcelona 4
(France) 5
Paris 5
Brussels/Bruge? 2
Amsterdam 4
Berlin 4
(fly to athens)
Athens 3
Island- crete? 2
Rome 5
Florence 3
Cinque Terre 3
Venice 4
Bern 4
Gimmelwald 2
Munich 4
Salzburg 3
Hallstatt 2
Vienna 4
Cesky Krumlov 2
Prague 4

TOTAL 75 nights

I'm currently living in the UK working as an au pair, so will be flying from london - madrid and from prague - london..

all the numbers are the number of nights in each city...

I will also be spending a week in spain on a puebloingles camp before starting this trip... (www.morethanenglish.com)

any help would be greatly appreciated

[herrbert]

I would do it slightly different, as you are almost home again when you hit Paris, I would go from Barcelona to Athens (or if that's not possible to Rome, and after Rome to Athens.)

I would be more happy if these were days instead of nights. I don't think you should head to Crete for only one full day. In my opinion that's waste of time and money. I would opt for Santorini for a couple of days (3).

I would take the question mark of 5 nights in France, to add some time at places. (from Madrid you have Toledo and Segovia as good daytrips, For an Island in Greece, you need more time.

In my opinion Venice and Bern, with both 4 nights, can do with 3 nights or 2 days. I would add a day to Gimmelwald, because it is nice to have some fress air, and different scenery after all these cities.

Madrid 4 (check Toledo/Segovia)
Pamplona 2
Barcelona 4
(fly to athens)
Athens 3
Island- crete? 2 (Santorini 3)
Rome 5
Florence 3
Cinque Terre 3
Venice 4
Bern 4
Gimmelwald 2
Munich 4
Salzburg 3
Hallstatt 2
Vienna 4
Cesky Krumlov 2
Prague 4
Berlin 4
Amsterdam 4
Brussels/Brugge 2 (my choice would be Brugge)
Paris 5

(France) 5

[aussiechick007]

thanks for the help...

it doesn't seem I can fly from barcelona to athens, or to rome... (if you know a cheap airline that does this please let me know!!)

Madrid 5
Pamplona 2
Barcelona 4
Paris 5
Bruge 2
Amsterdam 4
Berlin 4
(fly to athens)
Athens 3
Santorini 3
Rome 5
Florence 3
Cinque Terre 3
Venice 4
Bern 3
Gimmelwald 3
Munich 4
Salzburg 3
Hallstatt 2
Vienna 4
Cesky Krumlov 2
Prague 4

i kept the original route because of the flying thing, but other than that I've changed a few nights...

is there anywhere else in france worth seeing? I'm interested in sort of the history/architecture/culture... I feel a bit weird just seeing Paris, if you know what I mean...

[herrbert]

if you know a cheap airline that does this please let me know!!)

Clickair flies from Barcelona (BCN) to Rome (Fiumicino), and Vueling has flights from Barcelona (BCN) to Athens and Rome. Also Iberia flies to Rome, a little bit more expensive, but still under a hunderd euros.

www.clickair.com
www.vueling.com
www.iberia.com

To go from Athens to Rome you have a lot of choice:
Alitalia, Aegean Airlines, Air One and Olympic Airlines, all make these flights at a pretty normal rate. Air One, makes one stopover in Milan (Malpensa), the others are direct flights.

www.alitalia.com
flyairone.it/en/
www.aegeanair.gr
www.olympicairlines.com

For a good search engine for flights check www.edreams.com

[aussiechick007]

ok, thanks for those, although its still cheaper to do it the way i have it there...

railpasses have got me confused... argh i don't even know how to phrase my confusion... well, for example, if you have a pass for germany-france-spain, and a pass for austria-czech-switz, and you went on a train trip from germany to austria, which pass does it count on??

(this is just an example of random countries)

[herrbert]

If it works out cheaper, the way you have than please do it your way. remember: you have all the details, I don't.

I never used passes, and even if I would have, the passes for Europeans are different. So I can't answer you question, but I am sure somebody else can.

[aussiechick007]

I'm not european, I'm Australian.. I just live in the UK at the moment - but haven't been doing so for 6 months so I'm still Australian for this purpose.

I'm not sure if I should go passes or not, and I've tried using railsaver but its not working properly... I'll try again though...

[herrbert]

I meant it the other way round (I am European, and you are not. your nickname is kind of a give-away)

I think that for this trip it is best to get a railpass, the only question is which one (or which combination.)

[aussiechick007]

ok, I've revised it a bit, and note that I'm doing paris and amsterdam on wkd trips from the UK earlier on, so no need to go there on this trip... also note I'm a fairly quick sightsee-er (how on earth do you spell that word??.. is that even a word?!).. I just like to take lots of photos.. and I will also be by myself, hoping to meet people etc...

Madrid 4
San Sebastian (for Pamplona) 3
Barcelona 4
Bordeaux 3
Lyon 3
Brugge 3
Copenhagen 4
Berlin 4
Krakow 4
Cesky Krumlov 2
Prague 4
Salzburg 3
Innsbruck 3
Vienna 4
Athens 3
Island- crete? 2
Island- santorini 2
Rome 5
Pisa 2
Florence 3
Vernazza (Cinque Terre) 2
Venice 4
Bern 3
Interlaken Ost (for Gimmelwald) 3
Munich 4

as above, the numbers are nights not days

i was wondering what is the best way to get from athens to rome?? flights are expensive, and it seems i can get a ferry overnight from various ports for about £50, but then is transport from the cities to the appropriate costs cheap/frequent/good? ...

I'm still unsure about railpasses aswell... also what is a good website for looking at point-to-point rail tickets?

thanks for any help anyone can give...

ps. please don't comment on the route, its done this way for cheap flights and also to time it so I'm in rome the same time as my friend...

[Eagle]

aussiechick007, I have a few thoughts on some of your questions.

I'm a fairly quick sightsee-er (how on earth do you spell that word??

This definition will help with the spelling: Noun 1. sightseer - a tourist who is visiting sights of interest.

Thanks for the clarification regarding your choice of routing - I was going to comment on that until I read your last sentence.

A few comments regarding some of the cities you've listed.

> Spain - won't comment on those. herrbert is our resident expert so can provide much better information on those.

> Krakow - unless you have a lot of sights to see there, I might consider making that 3 days?

> Greek Island - Crete - that's a good choice. You might have a look at www.yhplakias.com/home/index.php?lang=en to see if that might interest you.

> Pisa - if you're just going there to see the Leaning Tower, you can do that in a few hours on your way to the Cinque Terre. Two days there seems a bit excessive, but of course it's your choice. Add some time to Vernazza!

> Interlaken - one thing to note is that Interlaken Ost is the name for one of the two rail stations in Interlaken; it's not a "place" per se. The Ost (east) station is the departure point for trains into the Lauterbrunnen Valley. You can certainly stay at Interlaken (check www.balmers.com/hostel.htm for one Hostel listing) OR you might enjoy staying at one of the locations in the Lauterbrunnen Valley. Places to consider: Lauterbrunnen, Murren, Stechelberg or Gimmelwald (the www.mountainhostel.com/ in Gimmelwald is a HUGE favourite, and gets top notch reviews from anyone that has stayed there!).

Finally, the Rail travel questions.....

also what is a good website for looking at point-to-point rail tickets?

I wouldn't bother trying to buy P-P tickets off a website, as you'll very probably pay a significantly higher price for them than necessary. P-P tickets are very easy to buy at stations in the area where you'll be travelling, either from automated ticket machines or from "live" agents in the stations (most of whom speak English). I normally buy my tickets for the outgoing journey when I arrive in a particular city (since I'm at the station anyway) and so far that method has worked well. However, it's a good idea to research which trains you'll be using, so that you'll know whether reservation fees are required on that train (if you buy P-P tickets at a station, these fees will be included in the cost of the ticket). I find the www.bahn.de/international/view/en/index.shtml is the most accurate and useful place for researching train trips.

Don't purchase any Rail Passes until you've somewhat finalized your route. When you have that, enter the details in to www.railsaver.com and the site will "suggest" the best Rail Pass for that particular Itinerary. I've found that it provides a good "approximation", but not always perfect. I believe the website is operated by Rail Europe, so may encourage purchase of Rail Passes? One important point to keep in mind is that the site may be configured more for the Rail Passes available for the North American market; I'm not sure if this will be applicable for the Interrail Passes as well? Since you're living in the U.K. (and buying your Pass there) you'll probably be using an Interrail Pass (check www.interrailnet.com/ for details).

Regarding your question

well, for example, if you have a pass for germany-france-spain, and a pass for austria-czech-switz, and you went on a train trip from germany to austria, which pass does it count on??

I'd probably look for a Rail Pass which includes all or most of the countries I would be travelling in. Using your example above, perhaps a Global Pass that includes travel in 21 countries would be good? AFAIK, the Flex Passes include up to five countries, and since you need at least six countries, the Flex Pass wouldn't fit.

Depending on how much travel you'd be doing in a particular country, one option might be to use a Flex Pass that includes Germany-Austria-France-Spain-Switzerland (where rail costs are typically higher) and just buy P-P tickets in the Czech Republic (where rail costs may be lower). Try the Rail Saver site and see what it suggests.

Two important points to note regarding Rail Passes - if you'll be going through a country not covered by your Pass, you'll have to pay separately for a ticket on that portion of the trip. Also, Rail Passes do NOT include reservation fees which are compulsory on some trains (usually the "fast" trains such as the TGV) and you MUST pay these separately or face a huge fine (sometimes levied "on the spot")!!! Rail Passes also do not include Couchette or Sleeper fees, if you were planning to use those.

Rail Passes often include discounts for other transportation, such as the Ferries to Greece and local transport in Switzerland (or other countries?) if you have a pass that covers those countries. Check the Rail Europe / Interail sites for details. You may also wish to download the free PDF Rail Guide at www.ricksteves.com/rail/railpdf.htm as it provides a lot of information.

I'm assuming that you've allowed for travel times between the various cities you've listed?

Good luck with your planning and happy travels!

[aussiechick007]

thanks for all the info...

I'll just add that I did mention the numbers were nights, not days, so the 4 next to krakow means 3 days, and the 2 next to pisa means 1 day really... also next to interlaken ost i put 'for gimmelwald', meaning that is my real destination (I just put the main railway station name down)

I've tried railsaver too, and i keep on getting to different versions of the website, none of which are very helpful...

what I meant with asking about a website for point-to-point tickets, is that I was wondering what kind of costs are involved with buying the rail tickets like this? a rough estimate of what I'm looking at for budgeting purposes?

in england you have to buy rail tickets far in advance otherwise it is very, very expensive... meaning I have become wary of this 'buying at station' method

[WillTravel]

Some tickets are much cheaper purchased in advance. For example:
Amsterdam - Berlin - you can get this for 39 Euros from www.bahn.de if you book far enough in advance. The price is much higher if you buy it at the train station.
Paris - Brussels - get this for as little as 25 Euros through www.thalys.com or www.tgv-europe.com or www.voyages-sncf.com - try each site to see what works for your situation. Choose a self-print option. (I wouldn't bother otherwise.)
Brussels - Amsterdam (same as above)

Some of the Italian fares are a little cheaper if you buy in advance at www.trenitalia.com . But so many people have credit card trouble with that site. So you may have to buy them in Italy, and the price differential is not as extreme as with the examples above.

For Switzerland, I'm not sure, but I think you can get discounts buying in advance, but there might be a good ticket for that.

I haven't traveled by train in central-eastern Europe, but I believe I've read the tickets are cheap enough that a rail pass is rarely helpful for the Czech Republic.

For Munich-Salzburg, there's something called a Bayern ticket. If there are up to five people traveling together, you can just pay 28 Euros. But look at www.bahn.de to see if there is some other option. You can also take the bus.

For the Spanish train tickets, look at the RENFE site. Discounts on train tickets bought far in advance can also be quite significant here as well.

Often the cheapest tickets go quickly. In general, train tickets for these routes will be available 89-90 days in advance, so start looking. It's good to get yourself familiar in advance too, as when the cheap tickets go on sale, they can practically disappear in front your eyes.

[aussiechick007]

wow! thats EXACTLY the kind of info I was looking for! thankyou so much!

[joshww]

Hihi, just got home from Munich today.

There is also a single person Bayern ticket, which is priced at $19 Euros, I believe. This entitles you to travel throughout Bavaria, including on PT in and around Munich, to Neunschwanstein as well.

Also DeutscheBahn is having some special fare promotions with train fares for 29Euros at the moment (not sure how long the promotion is on). I got my Ljubljana to Munich ticket for that price, so it's quite worth it.

[aussiechick007]

ok, I'm really really REALLY over this planning stuff and looking through pages and pages of hostels... ugh.

but I have a question - I have to cut out a day, and where should it be cut from: Venice, Munich, or Vienna? I know its my choice, I'm just asking for opinions