Central Europe January 2012 ~2months No Exp

[maniak90]

Hello, i'm new to the forum but i'm 19 years old and from Sydney!

I'm interested in travelling to Europe during my summer break from december to march. I have been to other countries before (mainly hong kong) but have never been travelling by myself.

I am interested in nightlife, meeting new people and experiencing local life / events / festivities. My main motivation for this trip is for one - as a way of pushing my comfort zone, and as well as to have lots of fun meeting new people and having new experiences.

I really have no clue what europe is about. Based on my budget of approximately $10000AUD, i'd like to travel for a more extended period of time (2 months). After chatting to a friend of mine who had previously lived in europe for 2 years, i have come to a few ideas of the countries i'd like to visit.

I'm interested in:
Netherlands (Amsterdam), Germany (Berlin), Czech Republic (Prague), Baltics, Hungary (Budapest), Poland (Krakow)

But i'd also love to visit:
Sweden (stockholm), spain (barcelona), greece (islands?) (but they're probably too out of the way and maybe a bit too pricey)

I understand that during January - March, the climate will be extremely cold. Thus, i'm not sure if its a good idea to travel here... but i won't have another chance to travel until years down the track.

I'm really just looking for more ideas, thoughts and experiences about the countries i've listed here, as well as any other countries that may potentially interest me. I'm still at the very beginning stages of planning.

Some points about the things i'm looking for in this trip:

• Not be tied down by intense travelling schedules
  
• Experience good nightlife but not necessarily have to drink (not a big fan)
  
• Meet new people
  
• Soak in local experiences and visit significant sites
  
• Be in "english speaking" friendly environments that are not too "difficult" for first time travellers like me
  
• Have the flexibility to go on "unplanned" adventures along the way
  
• Eat good / new / interesting food
  
• Spend the required amount of money but not too much in excess. Preferably as cheap as comfortably possible
  
• Experience Hostel life!!
  

Apart from that, i really have no preference as to WHERE i want to go as long as it's fun and interesting.

PS. after looking at a map of europe, i came up with this rough plan of travel:

Sydney -> Netherlands (Amsterdam - relatively "easy" place to settle in) -> Germany (Anywhere - Berlin?) -> Czech Republic (Prague) -> Poland (Krakow) -> Move north to Baltics -> Maybe Sweden (stockholm) depending on time / money -> Back to Netherlands -> Sydney

Thoughts? Instinct says its prolly best to skip netherlands and go straight to germany so that its easier / cheaper to do the whole circuit.

[madamtrashheap]

maniak90, welcome to GFE.

it's good to see that you've put some thought into the countries you'd like to visit on your first trip, and you're obviously excited about going. Just a few points for consideration:

1. Your budget of AU$10,000 is a good start as you'll be able to cover your travel and accommodation easily as well as food and sightseeing/entrances. However, work out what you have left over after flights (check out open jaw flights, or even round the world flights) from and to Australia (there are some deals out there at the moment if you get in early) and that will give you a better indication of what you have to cover travel between cities, accommodation and other expenses. A guestimate will be that you'll have around AU$8000 to play with, which is good for two months.

2. You're right about the weather in Sweden and Greece at that time of year. Not exactly conducive to travel - Sweden will be cold, but if you're just doing Stockholm for a few days then it can certainly be considered; the Greek Islands all but close down over Winter (from october until May) so save them for another trip, trust us, you'll be back!. Barcelona could also be included in your itinerary, along with Madrid (you're in Spain, you should explore a little more). The Baltics will also be rather chilly, but again Berlin can get very cold too, so don't not go to places just because they will be cold - Greek Islands, however, are the exception here. Based on the Winter we just had here, December was a knock-out month for snow and cold weather, but that's all part of travel and you'll definitely see Europe in all it's Wintery goodness! Get warm boots, a warm jacket (Northface, etc) and a hat and you'll be set.

3. Depending on your final itinerary, you should look at both train travel and flights between cities. Some routes are better done by plane, whereas others require train travel. Flights in Europe on many sectors are very cheap, so keep that in mind.

4. Other countries/places you could consider are Italy, France, Austria (esp if you ski/board).

5. As far events/festivities go, the lead up to Christmas is best experienced in Germany, Austria, Czech Republic or Switzerland (IMO). The Christmas Markets in all of these countries are amazing and really make it feel like Christmas, esp for someone from the sunnier side of Christmas-time. Christmas Markets generally take place from late November until 23/24 December, depending on the city/country you're in. Food plays a big part in the festivities, so you'll be well immersed in the cultural side of things...and very full!

6. Hostels are a great way to meet other travellers and will also keep your costs down as you can choose from single or up to 12 person dorms in some cases. Once you've sorted the cities, you can look for hostel information and have a list of the best ones in each place. Prior to Christmas things get booked up, so you might not be able to free-wheel it so much at that time of year.

7. Do a little more research about specific things you'd like to see/experience in each city/country, and we'll be able to fill in the gaps for you.

[maniak90]

Thanks for the reply!

I've had a look at a few travel guides (lonely planet) and i've got a rough idea of the places i want to go to - but i am still not quite knowledgeable to judge how long i should stay at each place. I'm considering something like this: (days are in brackets)

Amsterdam (4) -> Germany (7) -> Czech Republic (5) -> Hungary (5) -> Poland (7) -> Baltics (7??? what places are worth going to? I want to check out Tallinn, Riga etc) -> Finland (A MAYBE - IT WILL BE SUPER SUPER COLD BUT ASPECTS OF GOING THROUGH THE INTENSE WINTERY ACTIVITIES AND MAYBE EVEN GOING TO SEE THE NORTHERN LIGHTS KIND OF EXCITES AND CHALLENGES ME.. 7?) -> Stockholm (4) -> Spain (7+?)

I guess the major thing i'm choosing between is spain and finland. On one hand, the craziness of the finnish winter excites me but on the other, the excitement of spain also interests me. I don't think i can go to both otherwise i wouldn't really be doing much at either country... unless i shorten the other parts of my trip? I'm gonna aim for 6/7 weeks instead of the full 2 months unless theres something else significant that i can do.

I haven't yet gone through the details of exactly the places i want to go at / around each city - any major highlights / ideas here would be great!

Should i start in December or January?

[Eagle]

maniak90,

It's difficult to top the always thorough advice provided by MTH, but I have a few additional comments.

Regarding travelling in either December or January, if you want to see the Christmas markets and displays in Germany, December would be good. However, one thing to keep in mind is that some lodgings, restaurants, etc. will be closed over the Christmas holidays so you may have to problems getting meals (and of course that's not the best time of year to be alone).

Travel in January will avoid the holiday issue, but some lodgings will probably also be closed then. It would be a good idea to build some flexibility into your travel plans, in the event the conditions of this winter are repeated as there will be disruptions of both air and rail travel.

You might consider visiting Sweden, Finland, etc. on a future visit, as that part of Europe is very expensive. Keep in mind that AUD$10K is only about €7K. Also, each time you change locations it will require expending part of your travel funds. It might be better to limit your travel this time to areas that are somewhat geographically close that you can get to easily using cheaper trains.

I definitely agree that it would be best to save Greece and the Islands for a future holiday. In addition to many of the tourist facilities closing in winter, Ferries and flights to the islands are reduced also, so transportation could be a problem.

Spain or Portugal (the Algarve) would be good choices as they tend to be warmer in winter which is why they're popular holiday destinations for those living in northern parts of Europe. I believe many from the U.K. holiday or own vacation homes in Malaga and other parts of Spain.

It's a bit surprising that some of the more popular locations in Europe are conspicuously absent from your proposed Itinerary, such as France and Italy.

As this is your first trip to Europe, I would highly recommend reading the Guidebook Europe Through The Back Door prior to departure. It will provide you with a lot of good information on "how" to travel well in Europe. I'm not sure where you'd obtain it in Sydney, but you could try your local Library or larger book stores. That particular book is available in at least one E-book format also, should you have a compatible reader.

You might want to also have a look at some city or country-specific books from Lonely Planet, Let's Go, Rick Steves or others as they all have good information on lodgings, transportation and most of all sightseeing options (some Museums or other attractions may be operating on reduced hours at that time of year).

If you're planning on taking any electronic devices with you, don't forget Plug Adapters (as you're from Australia, the voltage shouldn't be a concern). In most cases, the Euro style with two-round pins will suffice, however different models will be required if any of your appliances require grounding pins.

Will you be travelling with a Smart phone (iPhone, Blackberry, etc.)? If that's the case, I would strongly advise doing some research on data roaming rates. You might want to have a look at www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2011/03/03/bc-video-telus-bill-fight.html (NOTE: her bill started out at $37,000 for 2.5 weeks in Egypt!).

Good luck with your planning!

[maniak90]

Alright i think i've come to a really good idea as to where i'd like to visit:
Prague, Budapest, Krakow, Warsaw, Riga, Tallinn, Spain, Germany

Of course i will also go to surrounding areas and places of interest that are outside the main cities.

If i have time / money then i'd like to also check out amsterdam for a few days.

I guess the order of which i visit these countries is largely going to be determined by transport costs. I will check roughly how much i will spend on airfares to and back from europe sometime this week. I'm yet to have a good look at the country-specific guides yet but i've got them with me. I will have a look at the guide by Rick Steves sometime later.

Accommodation - I reckon i will stick heavily with living in hostels - i'd get to meet more people that way and its much cheaper.

Time - I think instead of the full 2 months, i'd like to plan for something shorter (6-7 weeks). I would like a rough idea of the time i'm likely to spend at each city / place but i know flexibility will be a huge thing and i'd like choices to stay at each place for longer or shorter on my own choosing.

As for why i chose to keep Italy and France out of my plans so far - it is mainly because of time and costs. I think i'd need more time to explore these places, which also happen to be more expensive than eastern european countries. I wouldn't mind visiting them if it was convenient in terms of pricing and cost tho.

At this stage, i'm gonna skip Scandinavia for next time Prices + Insane weather + Extra travel time are the main reasons.

Also going to save Greece for next time too.

Any thoughts on my selection of cities / places ?

How long do you think it'd take for me to get a good experience of each place? After reading some lonely planet guides, i think i'll spend approximately a week each at czech republic, hungary, poland and the two baltic countries (2 in Riga, 5 in Tallinn with a day trip or two). I'll mix in a few day trips here and there too, but i'm gonna not restrict myself if i feel like staying longer or shorter etc.

I think the major toss ups are between germany, spain, netherlands - as to how long i'd stay in each place. Considering i'd spent about 4 weeks (30 days) in the already mentioned places, i have around 2/3 weeks left. I'm considering actually dropping spain (unless i find it cost and time efficient), to make way for around a week in germany and about 4/5 days in amsterdam - which also leaves me a bit of "free days" where i can choose to stay in other places where i find i'm having a good time.

Rough estimate on the costs of travel if i choose these cities to go to?

I guess the next stage is to look at the country guides and nail down the sites / things i have to do, and check flight options as to where its cheapest to land / depart.

PS. i DO have a smartphone but i think i'll grab another normal / cheaper phone to use when i'm overseas.

cheers!

[maniak90]

Alright guys. Ive had a look at airfares and possible flight times.

It's basically 2-2.3k and its cheapest if i fly after january 15th into frankfurt. Based on this factor, i'm going to plan for my trip to start somewhere around jan 18th - 20th and end around 10th of march.

However, i've allowed some more "time" for me to soak in the idea of going to europe by myself in the winter and i've actually got some concerns still.

What is europe like in the winter, particularly in the countries i'm going to. Will there be enough people around or will things be deserted? What about the nightlife in winter? What's different to going in summer, should i wait it out till i have the chance to go in summer? Will i find myself lonely, wet, cold and miserable out in a foreign place with no company?

[maniak90]

Guys? xD

[Eagle]

maniak90,

Regarding the questions in your last post....

It's difficult to predict what the weather will be like at that time of year, but you could look at the situation that occurred this past winter. Weather was extreme with numerous flight cancellations, train disruptions and other unpleasant events. IMO, that's not the best time to travel in Europe.

The majority of the places you'll be visiting are in northern Europe, so you can probably count on cold and snowy weather. The only exception is Spain (based on the countries you listed in your March 18th post).

There will be fewer travellers at that time of year, and some sights may be closed. Are your travel dates "fixed" or do you have some flexibility? Starting the trip in mid-March would probably be an improvement.

Hopefully some of the others will add a few comments on the topic.

Cheers!

[madamtrashheap]

maniak90, to continue on from Eagle's post, there will be less people travelling at the time of year you're planning to travel, but that still doesn't mean that Europe will be deserted. You will most definitely still find people to talk to and perhaps travel with when you're on your trip, particularly if you stay in Hostels. As for people on the streets, again, people who live in the places you're visiting will be around and you might be surprised and just how many people don't avoid being outdoors in Winter. Nightlife is still happening, jut not the "beach" bar scene of Summer of course, but certainly wine bars, cafes and other venues are still open. People don't avoid going out just because it's cold - if that was the case, we wouldn't do anything for 6 months!

You might get cold, you might get wet, but you certainly shouldn't be miserable. As we've said before, expect snow, expect cold, but the queues to get in to museums, etc will be shorter, people will still be around and experiencing Europe in Winter is no bad thing, just different.

[maniak90]

After some further reading. I've come up with a rough plan. Flying into frankfurt from what i know at the moment, is the cheapest in terms of airfares, hence my trip starts and ends in frankfurt. I have listed the places i wish to visit in the likely chronological order. It seems trains connect all these places together quite efficiently!

Frankfurt
Paris 7 days
Brussels (Day Trip Bruges) 3 days
Amsterdam 4 days
Berlin 7 days
Poland (Warsaw, Krakow) 7 days
Budapest 7 days
Vienna (Optional)
Prague 7 days
Bavaria (Munich)(Optional)
Frankfurt

-I will be leaving Sydney sometime after 16th of January and need to be back around 10th of March
-My Budget is $9000AUD including $2000AUD (at the very most) for airfares. This means i'll have about 5000 euros for everything else.
-I will be purchasing one of the eurail passes. Which one would be best for me? (Global pass looks good, i'm a student too!)
-I will obviously be including day trips to places other than the major cities.
-Any thoughts on the optional cities i listed? (Vienna and Bavaria (Munich)) Even after having a quick look at some lonely planet guides, i don't know much about them, especially for winter travel. I just included them here because i'm likely to go past them anyway.
-I originally wanted to visit the Baltic countries, but it seems that winter really isn't the time? Extremely short days and harsh weather... Plus it's a bit out of the way.

Correction: Munich and Vienna both sound pretty damn good from reading some more posts on this forum. I think i'll plan for 3/4 days in each of these places which makes up the 7 weeks i'll be staying in europe. I guess that since vienna and munich are both towards the tail-end of my trip, i can cut short / extend stays once i'm actually there, so i have some flexibility.

[madamtrashheap]

Good to see you're making progress on your trip, maniak90.

As you're travelling in January, you'll miss the Christmas Market season (they all close on or around 24th Dec), but there will still be plenty to see, do and eat along the way in January and February, including Fasching, or Carnivale/Mardi Gras, in some of the placed you've listed. In 2012 it's Feb 20-22nd, which is when everyone dresses up (like Halloween) and has street parties.

As for your choices of destinations and time allocated, I think overall it's a good plan. Plan on spending one night in Frankfurt when you arrive - it's a bit of a hike from Australia on that flight and you'll want nothing more than to have a shower and a good night's sleep when you arrive, so tackle the train to Paris the next morning.

Brussels as a base for 3 days will allow you to get to Brugge/Bruges for a day as well as see things in Brussels like the Museums of Fine Art, Atomium and Mini Europe, Beer Museum, Chocolate Museum, Comic Museum (Tin Tin and Smurfs!), Horta Museum...and that's before you've even eaten or tracked down the Mannekin Pis and his sister Jeanneke. Brugge is gorgeous, and you might think you should have stayed here, but this time around leave Brussels at a decend time in the morning, wander around Brugge and spend a night or two there next time. The walk from the train station in Brugge takes a good 20mins, so see if the public bus to the centre Place is running.

The train from Amsterdam to Berlin is a long one, overnight longer, so consider a flight on this sector. Look at Transavia.

Vienna - if you have the time up your sleeve, then 2 full days here will suit you well and you can visit museums, wander the city, enjoy the quiet city gardens in Winter and eat all the strudel and/or Sacher torte you want in that time. Lots to see here, again depends on your interests.

Bavaria (Munich) - again, if you have the time then you should put Munich in as well. A full day in the city will let you see the sights, another day will let you spend half of it out at Dachau (and the other half back in the city seeking out more Gluhwein or giant pretzels). 3 full days will let you take a day trip out to the castles - Neuschwanstein, Hohenschwangau, Lindau - on an organised tour if that's appealing. From Munich to Frankfurt by train is only around 2.5hrs, but don't do that journey on the day of your flight as there's nothing more stressful that being delayed on the way to a flight. German trains are super efficient, but the weather at that time of year can throw many spanners in the works, so arrive in Frankfurt the night before your flight.
Frankfurt

Have a look at Rail Europe (there's a like on the Home page of this site) for Rail Pass information. If you think the Global Pass is best for you, then that's fine. Eagle or the others may have more suggestions on this one.

You're correct - the Baltic countries (Lativia, Estonia, Lithuania) will have similar weather in winter to Scandi - cold, bitter, windy at times. So save them for next trip if you want warmth.

[helzbelz85]

Hey which carrier are you with?? I'm on global roaming with telstra & have been gone for 6 months now & my bills have remained the same. If u have a smartphone download skype to it cos call rates are cheaper, or even better get ur family & friends to download it & u can send messages & chat for free!!

Charges for global roaming are because people don't want to turn off their data roaming so they can have access to Internet all the time (trust me you don't need it!!). General rule is a lot of places (Maccas especially) will have free wifi so you can access things easily enough!! If your only gone 2 months it's all you need & a laptop might get annoying having to lock it up etc all the time. Smartphone is good enough & save all your photos to a USB not just Facebook cos that apparently reduces the quality of the image on fb.

Also if you are changing countries quite often different phone carriers will be in use & you will get charged an international rate anyway.

I jut did 6 months in South America with an iPhone & I still have it now & have all my pics stored well. Remember a lot of flights will have a 15-20kg weight limit & you will probably want to but stuff along the way (buy a decent jacket over there for the snowy weather & be prepared to spend a couple of hundred on it if need be).

Pack light & don't take anything your overly attached to. Your clothes will more than likely get partially ruined from laundromats & hostel washers so be prepared for that (P.S. White clothes never stay that white for long when backpacking!!)

[helzbelz85]

Oh yeah & figure out your daily budget including meals & accommodation & stick to it..last thing you want is to have to miss out on an amazing opportunity cos you've gone through your money too quickly!!