3 months - 9 countries

[EscapingDeskJob26]

Hi all,

I'm leaving for Europe from Vancouver in April of 2003 for 3 months (12 weeks) and wanted to obtain some well-needed advise on cities to visit and whether my itinerary is too ambitious.

I am meeting friends in Spain at the beginning of Week 8, and in England at the beginning of week 10. Because of this, I am trying to find the most efficient, yet affordable route. Is the following itinerary ok, too ambitious, not enough time, etc? Any suggestions, given the time frame, on cities to visit?

Tentative plan:

Italy (3 weeks)
Greece (1 week)
France (3 weeks)
Spain (2 weeks)
UK (1 week)
Ireland (1 week)
Netherlands (1 week)

Thank you,

Sheldon

[LHR02]

Sheldon,
Looks fairly reasonable to me. Personally I'd allow a bit more time for UK, but it is expensive so many do not linger there for long. Likewise Greece......unless you are going to just one or maybe two islands one week might be 'rushed' with too much travel time between places. Especially if you are using just ferries to get there and back. But overall I think you have a pretty workable plan indeed. Howver, is this the exact route/order you are going in? If so, you are doing quite a bit of backtracking.

ging

[Kim]

First, love the name!!

I agree with Ging-the Greece section isn't really long enough. You don't to spend much time in Athens, trust me-like a day or 2 at the VERY most. The islands, however are beautiful and you will want at least 3 days on several of them. It's quite far from Italy to go for just a week.

Maybe up Greece to 12 and decrease Italy or France a little bit? (My choice out of the two would be to decrease France).

It will be easier to allot the days once you determine how many cities in each country you would like to see.

Also agree with Ging on the route-is this the order you plan on going in?

For one, I would fly into Greece then go to Italy if you are starting at that end.

Kim
(who is across the water from you in Victoria)

[EscapingDeskJob26]

Thanks Kim & Ging for the tips!

The reason i chose to start in Italy was bcos I thought it'd be expensive to fly into Greece. Any idea? I'll probably be getting a 3 month eurail pass.

That would be good if I could go from Greece, Italy, France, Spain, London, Ireland, Netherlands. I was thinking of going to Prague - heard a lot of good things about it, is it worth altering my plans to go there?

Sheldon

[LHR02]

Not sure at all, Nitsansh should know, but would assume you can fly to Greece for not too much more than Italy. Makes way more sense to start in Greece and then carry on. The only other thing I might suggest is if you have to go from Spain to London I would seriously look into flights for that leg. You'll have already 'done' France and that is a very long train ride indeed!

Can't help on Prague....I too hear wonderful things about it, but after hitting Warsaw and Krakow in Poland I was ready to get the hell out of Eastern Europe! Hungary however I visited a few years ago and loved it, so it was just this past trip that gave bad experiences on the east.

And I personally would not cut one hour out of Italy! Although I enjoyed France much more than I expected to, Italy was so much more than I ever hoped!

Have you any thoughts yet on what/where you are going to see? Even the most unstructured trip needs some general ideas of where you are going.

ging

[EscapingDeskJob26]

Thanks ging,

Who's Nitsansh?

I'm not leaving till April, and I'll be travelling with my best friend, so I haven't really started thinking of places to see yet. I'll probably seriously start planning after Christmas - or when I'm bored at work:)

I agree with you on Italy, I'm looking forward to spending time there - museums, food, architecture, colliseums, wine.

Ryanair should be quite cheap right? ...for the flight from spain to london?

Sheldon

[Kim]

Yep, using Ryanair it will be cheap-too bad you weren't going now, there is a fly free and only pay the taxes thing on now until Feb. (Ging, did you see that?)

www.ryanair.com

The only place in Spain Ryanair flys from London (Stansted airport) to is Gerona, which is about an hour from Barcelona by the border of France. Depending on the day of week you fly, looks like a one way trip will cost you 25 pounds. ($40 US, $62 CND)

Kim

[LHR02]

>>>>>Yep, using Ryanair it will be cheap-too bad you weren't going now, there is a fly free and only pay the taxes thing on now until Feb. (Ging, did you see that?)<<<<



Nope, didn't see it. I booked those flights last week.....but hell, only cost me 4.99 GBP + tax so really can't complain too much. ;D

Nitsansh is another 'regular' poster (surprised he's not been here tonight) who really is a whiz at rail/air travel. If you are looking for schedules or fares...on this board he is your man.

Even if you had to hop over to Genoa to catch a flight, I'd still give it consideration since you'd otherwise be backtracking through France.

ging

[me]

Easyjet also flys into Athens, if you plan to go to Athens, at all.

You could start your trip there, and work your way to Italy from there. flight one way, surface the other way is a perfered way to travel. "open-jaw" sort of.

[nitsansh]

You definitely don't need to spend 1000$+ for 3-months Eurail pass!
For a start, the pass is not valid in UK. It's quite useless in Greece, and doesn't worth it in Italy, Spain or Ireland.

Though starting in Greece would make sense geographically, I wouldn't suggest to go there in April if you look for sun and warm sea... the tourist season in Greece officially starts after Easter, which is on April 27 in 2003 (no mistake... the Greeks are Orthodox, and they celebrate their festivals on different dates than the Catholics and Protestants).

Cheap airlines are mushrooming in Europe recently, and you would like to research this method of transportation before you decide on the "traditional" railpass way...
This site will be very helpful... though I doubt if you can already find schedules for spring and summer...
www.aerfares.net/applefares/index.php
England is the biggest hub for cheap flights in Europe... you can fly from London virtually everywhere... and since transatlantic flights to London are usually cheaper than other destinations this might be your best landing pad... even if you take a flight to Italy or Greece right away...
it's still worth looking at other possibilities, including open jaw ticket...

If you travel from Spain to England or Netherlands, you would definitely better fly... the further the distance, it's better to fly...
you can also fly to Prague if you like, otherwise it would be a long journey...

[EscapingDeskJob26]

---

You definitely don't need to spend 1000$+ for 3-months Eurail pass!
For a start, the pass is not valid in UK. It's quite useless in Greece, and doesn't worth it in Italy, Spain or Ireland.

---

What is the best way to see Greece, Ireland, Spain and Italy - if you think the train is not worth it?

Do you mean specifically the Eurail pass is not worth it, or all train passes in these countries are not worth it?

I don't mind spending some money for a pass if it means i don't have to keep going to an airport to checkin, or run around catching a bus, etc.

Sheldon

[Kim]

I personally think a Eurail pass is worth it, it saved us a lot of hassles.

Nitsansh is right about Greece though, there is no point to a pass there. Basically, it's all about island hopping. You can take a ferry from one island to the next with no problems whatsoever.

We used our passes all through Spain and Italy.. the UK you have to buy a separate pass for (Britrail) but you can buy them in small amounts like 4 days worth of travel.

We actually had a few different passes-it all depends on your intinary and how many trips you are planning on taking with it. Sometimes it's cheaper to just buy point to point tickets if you aren't planning a lot of journies though.

Kim

[nitsansh]

In Greece, most people travel to the islands by ferry - which is not covered by rail pass. Where they exist, Greek trains are cheap and don't worth to use a railpass for. More often than not they are slower than bus. The most important benefit you get for a rail pass in Greece is travel by ferry from/to Italy.

Italian trains are not expensive. The best and fast trains require supplement on top of any rail pass.
Same for Spain. The fast AVE and Talgo trains and the excellent "hotel-trains" charge you hefty supplements. Regular trains OTOH are cheap. On many routes buses offer a better deal.
In Ireland, I would suggest buses over trains. They are much cheaper and get to many places trains don't.

In any case, you can get a better deal than a 3-months Eurailpass for your trip.

[LHR02]

Hi Sheldon,
Well, Nitsansh and I have an honest disagreement on passes. If I may presume to give his point of view as I see it...he is all about the cost/money aspect. And I was/am leaning more towards the ease of travel I suppose.
That said, I had a one month Britrail for travel in UK and 3 month Eurail for the rest. I did not go to Greece this last trip, so it's 'uselessness' was of no concern. Although Kim says the same thing.....not worth it for Greece.
I did not/do not regret spending the money for them, and BTW I am surely over 26 so had to spring for first class only and mine was 1559. And, in the end, I got my moneys worth out of it. But not by much. And also in retrospect, I could have saved quite a bit by getting the 'so many days in a month' sort of thing as I never traveled more than 15 days in one month, the other three were 12 days of travel.
But....I had an unstructured trip, and loved the ability to just hop on a train, any train, and go. And I did do that several times....just went to the station, what train is leaving next, got on and then said 'where are we going?'.
If you have the funds and it is not breaking the bank/taking too much from daily expenses, then I say get the pass. I never regretted it, loved the freedom it gave me, and the stress free travel it afforded. And if you really don't know where you are going, for how long, go ahead and get the total package. Until you are there....you just don't know. As I have said before several times, not one, not a single one of my initial 'plans' for how long I would be in some place was true. I invariably stayed longer with few exceptions as I kept falling in love with the town I was in. Next time I will have a better idea and will likely go for the select pass or whatever it is called now. But for a first really extended trip, planned more or less on the go, the pass gave me what I needed.

If funds are tight, or you are more organized than I was, maybe some other way will work. That is for you to decide, but I would hate to have you totally scared off passes at this point in your plans.

And I still say there is NO WAY I would spend the time to train it from Spain to London.....not when flights can be had for so little.

Now.......Nitsansh will present his side of this. ;D

ging

[nitsansh]

Well... it depend on your style of travel... if you like to go to a train station and take the next train out no matter where... a rail pass is the way to go... in terms of flexibility, it's the best... but it goes with a price...
I found that if you plan carefully, several "small" passes could be a better deal than a big one... 2 10-days selectpass (each one for 3 different countries) cost much less than 3-months Eurailpass... and as I read, in 2003 there will be 4 and 5 countries selectpasses as well...