Cheapest Cologne-Amsterdam-Paris routing?

[WillTravel]

We got cheap tickets on United to go to Cologne in March for spring break (for each ticket, $422 all-in for SEA-CGN, CGN-YVR) March 15-25.

I know we are lucky, because in February 2007 we also went to Cologne almost for free using 25,000 Continental air miles. It just seems that Cologne is the cheapest place to get to for us at the moment.

So then I considered where we would go after landing in Cologne. In February we had a shorter trip and just went to Paris. This time, we have a few extra days, so I wanted both Amsterdam and Paris. I know other destinations would be possible, but the 3 flights over and 4 flights back are going to be quite gruelling as it is, and my daughter really likes these cities.

I was using voyages-sncf.com and looking at dates within the 90-day period in order to plan our trip.

This is what I have planned (we arrive and depart from Cologne one day before and after):
Cologne - Amsterdam, March 17
Amsterdam - Paris, March 21
Paris - Cologne, March 24

I thought this could be done, per person, as follows:
Cologne - Amsterdam 19 Euros (Deutsche Bahn)
Amsterdam - Paris 25 Euros (SNCF)
Paris - Cologne 25 Euros (SNCF)

I think I was misled by the fact that SNCF is having a promotion right now until March 16, in which return fares were not obligatory:
www.thalys.com/fr/fr/voyages-loisirs-et-offres-speciales/offres-temporaires/promotion-de-fin-d-annee-2007

So my plan would work up to March 16, but not for my dates. So what are the cheapest, best options that work for my dates? The DB fare still works, but is now almost irrelevant.

Because the trains on the Thalys routes go through Brussels so far as I can see, I am thinking something like setting up three Thalys roundtrip tickets, and enjoying some time in Brussels on the 17th, 21st, and 24th, like this, with the per-person cost shown:
Cologne - Brussels roundtrip, March 17-24 (30 Euros)
Brussels - Amsterdam roundtrip, March 17-21 (33 Euros)
Brussels - Paris roundtrip, March 21-24 (55 Euros)

So the travel would be the same as in my original plan, except I'd allow time in Brussels. The cost is obviously worse.

But is there some other method I am not properly considering? How easy is it to stop for the day in Brussels, so far as storing luggage?

Is there a painless way to incorporate an overnight stop like Brugges or Antwerp into this plan, and chop off one day from Amsterdam? Or maybe an overnight stop in Brussels (although I'd still have two other stops in Brussels)?

Herbert, I hope you can help! Anyone else too, please.

========
Edit: Here's what I think would work most efficiently, if I'm limiting myself to one extra stop.
Cologne - Amsterdam (19 Euros one-way) on Deutsche Bahn, on March 17
Amsterdam - Paris (70 Euros roundtrip) on Voyages-SNCF.com, on March 21
Paris-Brussels on March 24 morning, using the return part of the Amsterdam-Paris roundtrip and stopping in Brussels (and thus not using the Brussels-Amsterdam part). Spend the day in Brussels.
Brussels - Cologne (30 Euros roundtrip on Voyages-SNCF.com , and throw half away) on March 24 evening.

So that is 19 + 70 + 30 = 119 Euros, which works out more conveniently than the three round-trip method above. I wish I knew if Thalys would have another special. All these have to be booked sometime in advance (at least 14 days, and usually more than that because of low inventory).

I know Brugge or Antwerp or Ghent would be better, but in this case, convenience wins out, and there is a lot I want to see in Brussels anyway.

[Eagle]

WT, glad to hear that you have another trip planned. Ten days isn't a long time, but sure is a nice way to spend spring break!

I don't have an easy answer to your Cologne - Amsterdam - Paris travel questions. Based on your Post and your Edit, it appears you've checked this as much as possible on the net so not sure I would be able to find anything new. Hopefully herrbert or other knowledgeable person will be able to find something for you?

I briefly checked Railsaver (as I'm sure you've done) and it recommended a combination of P-P tickets plus a Railpass at a cost of US$303.00. According to your calculations, using only P-P tickets seems like a better deal.

but the 3 flights over and 4 flights back are going to be quite gruelling

I was a bit curious about your flight arrangements. Am I correct in reading that your trip to Europe from SeaTac will involve 3 flights, and the return 4 flights? That is gruelling!!! I suppose that might be one reason for the attractive price.

Good luck!

[WillTravel]

Eagle, that is correct.

On the outbound, it is SEA-ORD-LHR-CGN.
On the return, it is CGN-LHR-ORD-SEA-YVR.

However, there's a good chance, we'll miss ORD-SEA on the return, so maybe we'll get lucky and get the later ORD-YVR and cut down a flight. With United, they might reschedule things too. I'd love to get rid of the flights through two of the world's busiest airports (ORD and LHR), but I doubt that will happen.

I'm also going to Mexico City in February (solo trip). I wouldn't typically put two trips so close together, but I don't think we will go to Europe this summer or the rest of 2008, so it just worked out.

I think RailSaver cannot accommodate tricks like throwing away segments, so it's not perfect.

On the budget side, our accommodation is booked like this:
March 14-15, 1 night in Seattle at the Days Inn Downtown Seattle before departure - Free, with the Best Rate Guarantee program
March 16, 1 night in Cologne - Drei Konige hotel - a 3* hotel, double ensuite room and breakfast, 59 Euros. This is at Booking.com .
March 17-21, 4 nights in Amsterdam - Armada Canalview hotel - 2* hotel, twin ensuite room and breakfast, for 49 Euros per night! This is at Booking.com .
March 21-24, 3 nights in Paris - Marciano Hotel - 3* hotel, double/twin ensuite room with breakfast, 80 Euros per night. This is at HRS.de .
March 24-25, 1 night in Cologne - twin room at Four Points Sheraton on Starwood points.

So for 10 nights of centrally located ensuite private double/twin accommodation with breakfast in most cases, the cost is only 495 Euros!

[Eagle]

WT, that's a brutal flight schedule! There's no way I could handle something like that, so I'll stay with the flights out of Vancouver with Zoom or Air Transat (occasional brief stop in Calgary, but that's only for an hour or so).

It looks like you've done a great job with hotel bookings. I'm not familiar with any of the locations you listed, but I'm sure the Four Points Sheraton will be very comfortable!

It was interesting to note your solo trip to Mexico in February. I'm also considering a trip to Hawaii in early February for 10 days or so (anything to get some sunshine and get away from the miserable grey winters!!!). I should know within a day or so whether I'll be able to get the time off work. If the arrangements all come together, I'll probably have flights and Hotel booked before Christmas!

Cheers!

[me]

too bad you'll not be in Köln on January 6! that hotel you've planned there, Drei Konige hotel, is named in honor of the Magi!

the Cologne cathedral claims relics of the Magi in its crypt. the reliquary there is said to be beautiful. czech it out while you're there!

- d

[WillTravel]

When I was last in Cologne, I took a tour provided by the cathedral. The tour guide was a charming woman in her 60s, who always spoke with great pride and affection of "our cathedral", even when she was describing events in the 1700s. I would suggest that if you are at all interested, take this tour - I learned a lot. Another great moment was walking by the cathedral after 11 PM and hearing organ music!

[herrbert]

If you want to travel by train, I am not sure that I can find better deals. I wonder how you found the 19 euro tickets. The cheapest ones I find are 39 euro.

Another option could be to travel from Cologne to Amsterdam by bus. That would take 5 hours, and cost you 23 euros, more information in Eurolines.com.

The NS has adds in which they claim you can get to Paris very cheap (25 euro, one way), but I can't find anything on their website. I can't find anything cheaper than the 69,- at www.nshispeed.nl

There should also be running normal intercity trains between Amsterdam and Brussels, and they should be a bit cheaper than the Thalys.

At www.nmbs.be (or http://www.b-rail.be) you can find the connections to other cities, likes Brugge and Gent.

For Paris - Cologne, it is possible to fly with Germanwings. At their website I see a 19 euro all in ticket at 8.45 from CDG. But I can imagine that for 11 euros more, you prefer to get from the Middle of Paris to the Middle of Cologne, and not first go to CDG, and have to get a bus/train from the airport in (outside) Cologne. But if you can make a connection with the flight home, I can imagine, it can be a good deal.

One other thing to remember is that the 23rd and 24th of March is Easter.

[pointofnoreturn]

God, WillTravel, you always manage to score great deals on flights! Can I borrow some of your lucky charms?!

[WillTravel]

Herbert, that particular deal you mentioned had to be booked by Dec. 20 and was only good for dates until March 16, which is probably why you can't see it now. Thanks for looking into this - you're right that we don't really want to fly - we're doing enough of that already. I guess I can't complain that for almost 11 hours of train travel in total, with some of it being high-speed, the cost is less than 120 Euros per person.

The 19-Euro Cologne to Amsterdam one-way fare has to be booked on the Deutsche Bahn site. It doesn't seem to be available on the other national sites.

Another option that might be useful (although I don't think it will work for us on this trip), is that Deutsche Bahn is offering one-way tickets from the Paris Est station to Cologne or Frankfurt for 39 Euros. The neat thing is that these involve the fast TGV for the first part, so even with a change at Karlsruhe or Mannheim, the total trip only takes about 5 hours. On the direct Thalys route, the time is 4 hours. The other thing is that you can book the ticket with a stopover in those cities. I had never really thought of them, but they look like interesting German towns. The difficult part is that the DB site has lots of deals that are only described in German, so it really takes a lot of effort on my part to figure them out!

PONR - having the flexibility to leave from Seattle definitely helps with the airfares. It's so much harder to get good deals leaving from a Canadian airport.

[WillTravel]

OK, things changed. United changed the flight times for my rather terrible 4 flights on one day return. It made it impossible to connect.

But this turned out to be a good thing. I talked to United, and they have chopped my original 4 flights down to two, and we will be returning from Frankfurt, instead of Cologne. So now it's Frankfurt - San Francisco - Vancouver.

Luckily I haven't bought any train tickets, but what I think we'll end up with is this:
Cologne - Amsterdam, 19 Euros one-way - 2 hours, 37 minutes
Amsterdam - Paris, for me 70 Euros roundtrip, but throw second half away - 4 hours, 9 minutes. For my daughter, she is young enough to get a one-way fare for 52.50 Euros.
Paris Est - Frankfurt, 39 Euros one-way, on the high-speed train that takes 3 hours and 49 minutes.

And we'll skip the Brussels stop on the 24th, and instead look around Frankfurt.

[me]

willtravel said:

And we'll skip the Brussels stop on the 24th, and instead look around Frankfurt.

great news that you can now get home with half the changes!

not to sound like a broken record [this is an outdated simile. i use CD's, and they're now old school!] but i'd suggest a visit to Mainz. the Gutenberg museum <www.gutenberg-museum.de/?language=e> there commemorates the most important development leading to the Enlightenment: movable type printing in Europe: the printing press.

Mainz cathedral is also different from most, an interesting look.

- d

[jennifer]

Will, I think I took that same tour with that woman! She was so passionate, One of the rare tours I didn't fall asleep on!
I'd give you input on the travel aspect, but i have nothing better to say than what has been said.... Sorry

Good luck and I'm jealous on those fairs!

[herrbert]

Just to throw in a couple of options:

If it's possible to make a stop in Strassbourg, I would take a day here. Looking at bahn.de I don't see hi-speed trains making stops there, so it would change the plans a little bit.

If you are looking for a daytrips from Frankfurt, than I think you could go South a little bit, and make a trip to Heidelberg, or if you haven't been there Koblenz is also within reach, maybe you can find some time to visit some of the smaller towns in the Mosel Valley.

[WillTravel]

I would have liked to do Strasbourg in this trip, but I think I will save it for an independent one. This is sort of a trip by committee and cheap airfares/train fares when it comes to destinations! We'll end up with only the morning in Frankfurt (after arriving late the previous night). But I hope to see the reconstructed Old Town anyway.

Here is what happened when I bought all the tickets - about 10 hours ago. I hope it will be helpful to anyone considering anything similar.

The 39-Euro Paris Est-Frankfurt tickets for March 24 went on sale about 9 hours before I started trying to buy them. As I was working on the search, the price started shooting up for various times of the day. To make a long story short, I ended up buying the 59-Euro tickets, because the 39-Euro ones sold out for my first-choice time and my second-choice time and other times too. I guess maybe because it is Easter Monday, the demand is very high. But also, the supply of cheap tickets is really limited. I also had to buy these from Bahn.de and get them mailed (hope they arrive), because I wasn't able to do the self-print option with Voyages-SNCF or Bahn.de . Voyages-SNCF will only mail to France, so far as I can see. So you can see, that being 9 hours too late in buying these tickets ended up costing me 40 Euros in total.

For Amsterdam-Paris, I discovered that I couldn't buy a one-way self-print ticket for my daughter. I think (if I understood correctly), she could have picked up the ticket from a machine in France, but I wasn't positive if she'd be able to pick it up from a machine in Amsterdam. So I decided the safest thing was to get roundtrip tickets (at 70 Euros each) for both of us, because we could print these out. While I was searching for these, the price jumped for the 9:26 time (my preferred time) on March 21. Luckily I was able to get the 8:26 time on March 21. Again, the supply must be very limited. I got these on Voyages-SNCF.com .

The Cologne - Amsterdam self-print tickets for March 17 were bought without any problem on Bahn.de .

The tickets that I purchased for Paris Est-Frankfurt and Amsterdam-Paris have shot up even more in price in the past few hours. So if I had waited even a few more hours, I'd really be in a bad way. If you decide to buy tickets like this, be quick!