Summer in Europe

[starshine]

Hi all -

I've been lurking on these board for ages now, and am finally beginning to plan my trip for (hopefully) this summer, all things being equal (which they may or may not actually turn out to be!).

Anyways, I will be travelling to Europe at the end of June (probably leaving here - Toronto - around the 24th or so) with my partner. The main purpose of our travel is to visit her family in England, but we also want to spend some time travelling around, as neither of us has spent time in Europe, other than England. At the moment, we're planning about 4 weeks of travel, total. We're currently torn between two different plans. Both would start out something like this:

Surrey (family)/London (friends): 5 nights
Edinburgh (with day trips to the Highlands/other non-city areas): 3 nights
Surrey/London: 1 night
some sort of bike trip somewhere in England (maybe Cornwall): 2 nights (3 days)
London: 2 nights

The stopovers back in Surrey/London are to accomodate various goings-on there (birthdays, etc.)

So then, from there, we're a bit undecided. I've wanted to visit Paris forever, so I'd like to spend some time there (probably at least 4 or 5 nights). After that, we don't know whether we should go north to Belgium and the Netherlands, or south to Italy. Things to consider: I'm really interested in going to museums and galleries, she might not be quite as enthused; we both really like doing outdoor things (hiking, biking, etc.); we are two women in a couple, and, while we don't really care if there's a big gay scene where we're travelling, we obviously want to feel safe (although we're not hellbent on being out at ever step of the trip, we're not the straightest looking people ever).

We'll be flying into and out of London.

Okay, I think that's all the information I have at the moment, which I hope is enough! Please let me know if you need more to give advice. I really appreciate it - these boards are so helpful!

[Eagle]

starshine, Welcome! A few thoughts to begin the discussion.....

As you've been to England before, I assume you have some idea of the costs of travel there. I was in London, Bath and the Cotswolds in Sept./Oct. and it's expensive there! However, since you have a family to stay with, that helps to reduce the costs somewhat for lodging and food.

I would definitely recommend a visit to Paris, preferably for 4-5 days! You'll have to figure out a good balance of Museums vs. other acitvities that works for both of you. There are LOTS of things to see in Paris, so shouldn't be a problem. If you're planning to visit the Louvre, I'd suggest focusing on the Denon wing (Mona Lisa), as that would be a nice compromise. The Musee d'Orsay is wonderful, and you might enjoy that more than the Louvre? Of course, there's the Eiffel Tower and other attractions. One thing you might enjoy would be a Bike tour of Paris. Have a look at www.fattirebiketoursparis.com/ to see if this might interest you? They also offer Segway tours, which I really enjoyed!!!

Regarding whether to head north or south after that, I'm not sure what to recommend??? I suppose it would depend on what you're most interested in? Given that Italy is somewhat of a "conservative" country, I wonder whether Amsterdam and Belgium might be the best choice? Hopefully herrbert will spot this post, as I'm sure he'll have some comments.

Rather than flying into and out of London, I'd highly recommend you consider open-jaw flights. That's a much more efficient way to travel, and avoids the expense and time of returning to your starting point. You should have no difficulty finding flights into London (I'd recommend Gatwick over Heathrow) and back to Toronto from Amsterdam or major airports in Germany (Frankfurt or Munich). I believe Air Transat has some new routes this year, so you might consider that. Talk to a Travel Agent for more details.

Finally (and maybe most importantly), as your trip will be taking place at the end of June and well into July, pre-booking accomodations would be a really good idea!

Good luck with your planning!

[me]

well, Starshine,

both Italy & Netherlands have amazing art museums. Florence &, especially, Rome have some of the world's greatest collections. Amsterdam also has wonderful museums!

Question to ask yourself: how well do i deal with heat & crowds? in Summer, Rome can get hot, sticky and very full of people. Amsterdam, is less likely to get so warm - but, no guarantee of that!

also, in case you've taken the name Starshine to say you like nightlife, i personally found Amsterdam to have better nightlife than Rome. Rome seemed a little more uptight to me than Amsterdam.

- d

[me]

eagle said:

[One thing you might enjoy would be a Bike tour of Paris. Have a look at www.fattirebiketoursparis.com/ to see if this might interest you? They also offer Segway tours, which I really enjoyed!!!

odd, that Fat Tire Bike Tours logo looks the same as for Fort Collins, CO, based New Belgium Brewery's Amber Ale, also called Fat Tire. www.newbelgium.com/beers_ft.php

Fat Tire was a very popular brew a while back - it had an almost cult following. it's still widely drunk, but less than it once was. hey, i still drink it!

- d

[herrbert]

Hi Starshine,

First of all I think I would spend a little bit more time in Scotland, if you really want to visit the highlands. 3 days there, will just be enough to visit Edinburgh, and maybe a daytrip to Glasgow, Sterling or nearby Loch Lomond. And if you really like hiking, Scotland is a good place.

If you go North: Then I would recommend Amsterdam, but as a lesbian couple be a bit more careful, then you needed to be in the past. In the last few years, there have been reports of gay-bashing near the gayarea, of the reguliersdwarsstraat. (see another topic in the articles section). The van Goghmuseum and the Anne Frankhouse are the must sees. From Amsterdam you could go to a place like Berlin.

If you go South, then you can also consider going to Spain. It can be really hot in the Summer months, but if you like it, you could visit the pride in Madrid 3-6th of July. And Madrid is much more liberal these days than Amsterdam. The nightlife in Chueca, just north of Sol and the Gran Via, is full of gay,lesbian and mixed bars. (but they can be found all over Madrid).

It depends a little bit on the days you spend in various places, but say, you would go U.K. - Paris - Brugge - Amsterdam, then I would also see no problem in taking a cheap flight south to Italy (or Spain). So you can do both.

You say like hiking and being outdoor, see if it possible to fit in a place like Gimmelwald in Switzerland, (if you go by train to Italy, that should be possible) or maybe Innsbruck in Austria.

[starshine]

These are really great suggestions - thanks! I'll look into some of this stuff and then start to plan my itinerary more specifically. I think the idea of doing some biking in cities is a great one, and the other destination suggestions are also very much appreciated. Thanks for your time, guys!