Route planning help

[monty1104]

Hey guys, I'm new here, so please bear with me.

Im planning a trip from Australia (im Australian) to Europe. There are a few of us going, maybe 5 or 6. At this stage we are planning to visit Prague, Vienna, Munich, Paris, Valencia, Greek Islands and Venice. What is the best order to do this in? Flying to Vienna is the cheapest way in, but from there I'm stumped. Valencia and the Greek Islands seem to be a bit out of the way, so im unsure of where to fit them into the trip. Also, I think at this stage, Paris could be the last stop of our journey, since it is easy enough to get an almost direct flight home, therefore it will be cheaper. Also, if anybody knows travel times via eurail between these cities, id appreciate it.

Another thing is I'm kinda unsure about how to do the Greek isles. In a perfect world, I'd love to visit Santorini, Rhodes and Mykonos. How long would it take to get from Santorini/Mykonos to Rhodes? If we are only there for 6 days is it worth it?

We plan for the trip to last for around 6 weeks, so around 1 week in each place would be the idea, could we fit one or 2 more cities into the trip, especially if it is along the train route somewhere? Geez, this planning stuff is harder than I thought

[pointofnoreturn]

When are you planning to go? The Greek Islands is better visited during May-October although they're in full force between June and August.

[me]

for the more distant places, cheap flights would probably be your best bet. the website i find easiest to use for finding these flights is www.whichbudget.com/

for Vienna, Prague & Munich, rail would be best. for train schedules, i'd suggest www.bahn.de/

to decide if railpasses are best for you, try www.railsaver.com/railsaver.asp be sure to indicate that there are 5 or 6 of you together.

[Eagle]

monty1104, first of all, Welcome to the Boards! I have some thoughts to add to the others.....

Where to begin and end your trip will depend to a large extent on what flights are available to you. Your idea to use "open-jaw" flights is a good start! If you can get a flight to Vienna and home from Paris at reasonable cost, plan for that.

Based on the locations you listed, would something like this work:

> Fly to Vienna (4 days - you'll lose at least one day in flight, and getting over jet lag)

> Train to Prague (there's a direct train leaving at 10:04, travel time 4H21M - stay 3 days?)

> Train to Munich (there's a direct train leaving at 09:16, travel time 6H03M - stay 3 days?)

> Train to Venice (there's a direct train leaving at 11:30, travel time 7H02M - stay 3 days?)

At this point, you'll have to decide which route to take. There are flights from Venice to Barcelona using MyAir (cost should be reasonable if booked early). From there you could take the train to Valencia. Hopefully herrbert will spot this post, as he's the expert on Spain.

Again from Barcelona, you could use budget flight (Vueling) to Athens to begin your Greek islands tour. Hopefully some of the others can suggest the best way to get to the islands you listed. Once you're finished touring Greece, return to Athens for an EasyJet flight to Paris Orly. Tour Paris and then take the Shuttle or RER to Paris CDG for your flight home.

For a six week trip, I see no reason you couldn't fit a few more cities into your Itinerary. Of course, which cities and which order you visit them will have a bearing on the transportation options I've listed. Which other cities might your group be interested in

Hopefully this has provided a few ideas to help with your planning. I find that planning and anticipation of the trip is almost as much fun as the trip itself!

Cheers!

[monty1104]

eagle said:

I find that planning and anticipation of the trip is almost as much fun as the trip itself!

Cheers!

You are so right. At this stage, we are planning on travelling in November 2009, so it is almost 2 years away, and I'm already Excited!

Other cities we would be interested in are Stockholm, London, Barcelona, Berlin and maybe Tallin. Also, Id love to see Cesky Krumlov and Pilsen, but the others in the group needed to be convinced about Prague, so these 2 places are doubtful. Is it possible to do a day trip to these places from Prague?

I realise that some of these places are a long way out of the way, so it might not be possible to get to them without spending too much money/time, thats why I'm trying to work things out early, so im not disappointed later.

One last thing, those times you posted Eagle, did you get them from a website, or just from memory? If it was a website, could you please post the link, as I have been unable to find anything where it tells the travel time from place to place (althought I havent looked too hard ) Cheers

[francefiend]

One last thing, those times you posted Eagle, did you get them from a website, or just from memory? If it was a website, could you please post the link [...]

My guess would be Die Bahn. It's a great resource for train timetables.

[pointofnoreturn]

I'd skip the Greek Islands because you're starting your travels in the month of November. During that time of the year, the islands start shutting down for the winter season and there are even LESS ferries running. I'd stay within mainland Europe for the duration of your trip.

[monty1104]

Is the weather still good enough on the Greek Isles during winter to enjoy the beaches? One of the reasons I want to see Europe in the winter is because coming from Australia, Ive never experienced a white xmas. Can the weather be really prohibitive for things like travel, and even sightseeing? There is just so much to take into consideration!

[pointofnoreturn]

No, it wouldn't be a great idea. Only a portion of the summer residents stay on the islands as permanent residents during the winter season. They're seriously like shut down. Only local activity. Most hotels close down for the seasons as well as tourist shops and the ferries will be practically non-existent... well, for the most part there will be a few prime ferry runs but it'd be very windy and cold down there.

[herrbert]

eagle said:

monty1104,Hopefully herrbert will spot this post, as he's the expert on Spain.

Sorry, that it took a little longer then normal, but I was Madrid for the weekend. (in fact just returned a few hours ago).

I am wondering why you would pick Valencia? If you want to go for the good weather in November, than rather go further south to Andalucía. Sevilla is a beautiful place, and still warm in November, and the same can be said for places like Cadiz and Málaga.

Personally I would try to fly into Sevilla or Málaga, or if that is impossible, you can fly to Madrid and spend some time in Madrid, and take the AVE to either of these places.

If you are is still set on Valencia, then you could fly from Italy, but the only company that did the flight Venice - Valencia was AlpiEagles, which I understand, has stopped all services.

[monty1104]

Honestly, I am not fussed where in Spain I go. Some of the others in the group are set on going to beaches in Spain, so I havent looked too much into it myself. For me, travelling to Europe should be about experiencing different cultures. In Australia, we have some of the best beaches in the world, so beaches are not a huge drawcard for me. However since I am traveling in a group, I have to compromise.

Are there any places in southern Spain which have good beaches AND something else to offer, eg historical sites. Another thing I was wondering is whether or not Lagos is worth a visit?

[herrbert]

monty1104 said:

Are there any places in southern Spain which have good beaches AND something else to offer, eg historical sites. Another thing I was wondering is whether or not Lagos is worth a visit?

I am not a beach person, but the beaches around Málaga are supposed to be good, but it also can get crowded in some places. If you like to wonder off alone, there are loads of places in the south of Spain to visit. I am pretty shure that you can make a daytrip to Granada to see the Alhambra, from almost any part of southern Spain, but it can need some planning, depending on where you go. If you have the chance, try and see it, as it is an amazing sight.

Málaga itself is trying to get a better name with tourist of the last few years, and is using it most famous inhabitant, the late Pablo Picasso to draw people. There is a castle that is nice to visit.

Sevilla is a beautiful place, that got rich because it was the centerpoint of all trade with the new world for a long time, and also, like Granada, was one of the cities that had a Muslim rule for a couple of centuries. The Alcazar (castle) is beautiful, and a visit to the Cathedral is worth a visit too.

If you don't like the beaches, then see if you can pull away from the group, and visit Granada and Sevilla for 2 days each. If you have even longer, then see if you like to visit one of the pueblos blancos (white villages) in the mountains, like Ronda or Arcos.

I have heared good things about Lagos from other people here, so I am sure, then can give you a better advice on that. And like the beaches in southern Spain, it is more likely to have higher temperatures then Valencía.

[monty1104]

OK, here is rough draft 2 of the trip.

Fly into London. We are then going to do an 18 day tour which covers Paris, Lauterbrunnen, Florence, Rome, Venice, Salzburg, Prague, Berlin, Amsterdam, Brugges and back to London. I was against Tours, because I wanted to do my own thing, but this one seems good. It is basically just an accomodation/food/transport package, and we do out own thing once we are in the cities. It's going to cost around $2500 AUD all up, which doesnt seem too bad.

Once we get back to London, we are planning to fly down to Portugal and then work our way back up to London again. Points of interest include: The Algarve, a nice Spanish beach (as far south as possible since we are going in winter, suggestions please!) Barcelona, Madrid, French Riviera, Monaco, Caen and Paris again. If we were to take the rail from Paris to London, does it go through Caen and is there a way to get off there?

[francefiend]

The Eurostar cuts through Calais, on the other side of northern France. It does not pass through Caen. You would have to return to Paris to catch the Eurostar. Take the Corail train back to Paris Gare Saint Lazare, then take RER E to Magenta. From Magenta, walk to Gare du Nord (the two stations are connected). The trip takes a little over two hours.

**Book Eurostar tickets ASAP!! Check the website every month or so until it allows you to book tickets for November 2009. I just checked the website and they are selling tickets for this November already.