Backpacking in Europe mid 2009

[asianbus21]

Hi all,
i was looking for a backpacking forum in search for help and ideas and came across this board and here i am! Im an Indonesian student studying in Australia and planning to do some backpacking with 3 of my friends, (2 in Singapore and 1 in USA).

we are thinking to spend 4-5 weeks and as much as we hope to travel around Europe as much as we can, we do realise that spending more time in a city would be much more worth the while than having to travel in a 1 city/day basis.

so anyways, since some of us have limited access to the European Visas, we can only go to 25 selected countries, mainly,
Iceland, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Austria, Hungary, Slovenia, Italy, Malta, Greece, Monaco, Portugal, Spain, France, Luxembourg, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany.

So anyways, we were planning to go to just some selected countries, mainly, Norway, Sweden, Czech Republic, Austria, Italy, Monaco, Portugal, France, Belgium, Netherlands and Germany.
That would mean 11 countries.

but thats where we're stuck now because we are not really sure about where we should start and in which order would be the best for us..

we'll be flying to a designated location since we all come from 3 different countries, meet up, and get the whole thing going from there. go back to the location and fly back to our own homes in 5 weeks time.

so anyways, thanks for reading, sorry for the long (and messy) post and/or bad english. do let me know if anyone need more information to be able to give advices!

[commie]

depends on what you wanna do. sweden and norway can be quite nice if youre not so into party (because the beer is bad and expensive). you could stick arround stockholm for a few days and take a look at all the museums there. go further up north to and you can rent a small hut in the woods (no water or power, byo food&sleeping bag) and just walk all day. check the forum here, there are plenty of todo-lists here. have to stop for now, pizza is done

[herrbert]

It would help a little bit to tell us what your interests are: Are you looking to see cities, or would be more interested in smaller towns, beaches, party, nature or art, etc ...

I think you shouldn't devide your trips to the countries you like to visit, but rather to the cities, this makes planning a lot easier. (e.g. when you say Austria, you can mean Vienna, but you can also have the desire to see the Alps, and go hiking)

Scandinavia is rather expensive, and from what i have seen there so far, my favourite is Finland, rather than Sweden. It might also be a bit out of the way. Going by train means a long trip there, and a long one back. (via Denmark)

If you are going by train, it would be rather odd to visit Monaco, and not France. (I can't understand the fuss people make about Monaco), and seeing Portugal, but not Spain.

How to go is up to you, but you should take into account the weather/climate. In the south of Europe the weather is great from April to October, in the North, that period is shorter (May to September). If you would start your trip in May, I would travel South to North (in a general sense of course.)

If you haven't booked tickets yet, you can also have a look at open jaw tickets. With these you can start the trip in one country, and end (fly home) in another. These tickets will be a bit more expensive, but they save you backtracking to you start point, and the time involved with that. If you need to return to your original airport (because openjaw is too expensive, or it doesn't work out, because you can't meet up that way), try to take the map, and make the trip as much as a circle as possible.

[asianbus21]

thank you very much herrbert and commie for the reply.
we are still new in travelling and wow, there are so many things we havent thought of!
thanks herrbert, we will take note of these things, get some main cities we want to visit, then post an update here again

[Eagle]

asianbus21, I have a few comments to add as well.

The first impression I have when looking at your travel plans is that visiting 11 countries in 4-5 weeks is very "ambitious", and might be difficult to achieve. You didn't say what type of budget you're working with, but transportation costs will certainly be a factor.

Given the fact that two of the countries (Norway & Sweden) are somewhat "distant" from the others, you might consider dropping those. As herrbert mentioned, travel in Scandinavia is somewhat expensive.

Also as mentioned, it would really help to have a list of cities to work with. It's impossible to plan an Itinerary without this information. You might find it helpful to read some Guide books, as that will give you an idea which cities might interest you the most, and also which sights (Museums, Art Galleries, etc.) would be of most interest to your group.

In planning your trip, try to minimize one-night stops as they tend to get very tiring. If this is the first time in Europe for some / all of you, I would highly recommend reading the Guide book Europe Through The Back Door, as it provides a lot of information (including trip planning), money issues, languages and especially rail skills. You will undoubtedly be travelling by train for much of your trip, so it's important to understand how the rail system works. Whether or not you should buy a Rail Pass will depend on the cities and route you eventually choose; that can be determined a bit later in the planning process.

You indicated that your trip would be "mid 2009". Which months were you considering? If at all possible, it would help to avoid travel in July and August as Europe is often hot and crowded. Travel in the spring or fall "shoulder seasons" is preferable, although they can be busy as well.

Regarding flights to and from Europe, I would highly recommend using the "open jaw" method that herrbert mentioned. It's usually the most efficient way to travel, and while it might cost more initially, you also have to consider the time and the cost to return to your starting point if you buy normal return tickets. Given the current situation with fuel prices, some airlines might be cutting or decreasing travel on some routes, so it probably won't be possible to plan flights for mid-2009 until later this year. However, cost effective flights to and from major "hub" airports such as Amsterdam (Schiipol), Frankfurt or London (LHR or LGW) will undoubtedly be available, as the passenger loading on those routes will be viable for the airlines.

Good luck with your planning!

[asianbus21]

Thank you Eagle, yes after some research we realise it was too ambitious, anyways, now we have sort of a draft on where we will be going.
We will be heading off during May, for 5 to 6 weeks,
and we will definitely consider buying the open jaw ticket, but just wondering is it a lot more expensive than a normal ticket?

anyways, here is the draft below:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Proposed route of travel:

Lisbon
2nd-4th.

Take a bus/train to Madrid.

Madrid
5th-8th.

Take an overnight train to Paris.

Paris
9th-13th.

Take an overnight train to Zurich/Geneva

Zurich/Geneva
14th-17th

Take an overnight train from Geneva to Rome.

Rome
18th-21st.

Take a plane from Rome to Athens.

Athens
21st-23rd.

Take a plane from Athens to Prague.

Prague
23rd-25th

Take a overnight train from Prague to Munich.

Munich
26th-28th

Take a train from Munich to Berlin.

Berlin
28th-30th

Take a bus/train from Berlin to Amsterdam.

Amsterdam
31st May - 3rd Jun

Take a plane from Amsterdam to Stockholm.

Stockholm
3rd-6th.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, looking at the cities that we are going to,
would u think that the method of transport written is the best one? we hope for advices, thank you!

[herrbert]

I think this looks much better, but I still think the time you spend in some of the cities is rather short, especially if you need to have time to make the travels. I think I would rather drop Athens from this trip, and keep it for a trip in the future, and then also include a trip to one or two of the Islands. Both Rome and Berlin, can really do with an extra day.

Lisbon - Madrid is a distance you shouldn't underestimate. I would reckon a flight (Vueling) will get you to Madrid much faster. In Madrid check the day trips to Toledo and Segovia.

I would also check on a flight between Madrid and Paris (again Vueling).

It might be a possibility to go: Lisbon (flight: Vueling) - Madrid (flight: Vueling - Paris (train: Thalys) - Amsterdam (flight: Skyeurope) - Prague (train) - Munich (train) - Switzerland (train) - Rome (Flight) - Athens (Flight) - Berlin (Flight)- Stockholm.

First of all I think there will be more/cheaper connections between Athens and Berlin, and Berlin and Stockholm, then from Athens to Prague, and Amsterdam to Stockholm. It also prevents a bit of backtracking, as you are pretty close to A'dam, while you are in Paris (4 hours by train.)

The cheapest flights to Athens, I think are the flights with Easyjet from Milan. So maybe you could get to Milan from Switzerland, and take the plane there, and take a return flight to Rome (you need to calculate if that's cheaper, or not)

In Stockholm be sure to visit the Vasamuseum, it's an amazing place.

[asianbus21]

wow herrbert you're really being a great help again.
thanks for the info and we'll make sure to check it up and restructure our whole plan to make it a better one!