First time Europe!

[lisamichelle4512]

Hi everyone!

My name is Michelle. I'm am graduating from college next May (2009) and am planning on a little bit of time in Europe before becoming a part of the real world. There will be 4 of us traveling together for 4-6 weeks. We're not really sure about anything...how long to stay, where to go, what to do, how to get around...need a lot of help.

Here is my wish list of destination countries...

Ireland (Dublin or Cork)
England (London)
Denmark (Copenhagen)
The Netherlands (Amsterdam)
Germany (Cologne)
Belgium (Brussels)
France (Paris)
Spain (Barcelona, running of the bulls)
Italy (Rome, Venice)
Greece (Olympia, Athens)
Austria (Salzburg-sound of music!)

Is there anything I should scrap? Anthing I should add (missing any must sees)? Any route suggestions (where to go first and last as well as how to get from one place to another)? What should we do while we're there? The cities listed are just ones I know interest me off the top of my head. I plan on buying some books, but the only one I have so far is Amsterdam.

What we're looking to experience??...I like history, Bethany likes art, Tyler likes castles and architecture, and Brandon likes beer and sports. We're hoping to get something for everyone.

Our budget is pretty small...we want to spend as little as possible! Suggestions for making this happen would be appreciated as well!

Thanks in advance for your help!!

[herrbert]

Hi Lisamichelle,

Ireland (Dublin or Cork)
- somehow Ireland, doesn't appeal to me, so I leave that to someone else

England (London)
- big city but also a possible budgetbraker. It is possible to do London on a budget, but be careful with your budget here. In my opinion, London needs at least 4 days. It's a big city, with a lot of things to do. If you like History, you will be pleased to know that seeing the British Museum doesn't require an entrance fee. Only for special exhibitions you need to pay (the same is true for a lot of other museums in London, include both the Tate museums). Other sight however have high almost ludacris entrance fees (St. Paul's, the Eye)

Denmark (Copenhagen)
- I spend 2 days there, including an afternoon trip to Farum. For me that was enough. It's nice, but not really that special. To see Tivoli in the evening is very nice (but also pretty expensive), the collection of statues at the NY Carlsberg Glypotek (if you write like that?) is worth a visit, if you like that stuff. (in my opinion, the mermaid, and Nyhavn, are totally overrated sights)

The Netherlands (Amsterdam)
- Good for 3 days, maybe 4 if you include a daytrip to Haarlem, the Hague or somewhere else in the Netherlands). The van Gogh museum, and the Anne Frank House, are 'must sees'

Germany (Cologne)
- At first glance nice for a day. The Dom (the Cathedral) is the big sight in town, even if you would just pass Cologne it is worth to see it, as it is just opposite the trainstation. One of our regulars, spend a lot of time in Cologne, during recent trips, so she might have some more tips coming your way.

Belgium (Brussels)
- In Belgium I would prefer Brugge. I think 2 days would do it. Form either Brugge or Brussels it is easy to visit the other city, and even to see Antwerp and Gent along the way. If you like to visit all four, you need to stay a little bit longer than the 2 days.

France (Paris)
- I will leave it to someone else. As a city I think 3 to 5 days depending on interests.

Spain (Barcelona, running of the bulls)
- For Barcelona take about 2-3 days. (maybe a daytrip to Girona?)

Going to Pamplona for the running of the bulls, demands that you book early, esp. if you want to stay in Pamplona. If you can't get accommodation in Pamplona, you can try San Sebastian, and take the train to Pamplona and back.

There are a lot of other places to visit in Spain that are really worth seeing, like Madrid (my personal fav.), Sevilla and if you like history, take a closer look at Granada, and the Alhambra. For Madrid count 4 days (including daytrips to Toledo and Segovia), for Sevilla and Granada, each 2 days.

Italy (Rome, Venice)
- Rome needs a lot of time, and for people who like history, this must be heaven, due to to Roman legacy. Also see if you are interested in going to see Pompeii. (this can be done as a daytrip, but it is a long day, another option is to stay a night in Sorrento). For Rome I would say 5 days.

Venice is nice, but a lot of people (including myself) also feel it is overrated, and too crowded with tourists. I think 2 days would do very well

In Italy there are also other options like Florence, and a favourite on these boards, are the little towns, that make up Cinque Terre.

Greece (Olympia, Athens)
If you go to Greece, then also try to see at least one of the Ilses, Santorini is again a favourite. I really don't know how much there is to see at Olympia, but for Athens count 3 days. If you only go for Athens, and a trip to Olympia, make sure that you want to pay the extra costs for the tickets, and the time for the travel, as getting to Greece will take time. If you alse need to get back to another country, the expenses in time and money, just don't pay off.

Austria (Salzburg-sound of music!)
- If you go to Austria, I would always include Vienna, good for a good 3 or 4 days. Both really good for fans of history, and the arts.

Salzburg is lovely but not really big, taking the sound of music tour, will however take some time. Also from Salzburg you can take the train to a smaller town called Werfen, here you can find a very lovely castle (hohenwerfen) and very special: the Ice Caves of Eisriesenwelt.

Travelling in Europe, would most likely be a combination of trainrides and a couple of budgetflights.

[madamtrashheap]

lisamichelle, welcome to the Boards!

I agree with herrbert's suggestions, so will fill in the blanks for France and throw in a few more ideas.

France - Paris needs 4-5 days, especially if you intend to spend a day out at Versailles. From there, depending on the route you take, you could spend time Lyon/Burgundy region for food and wine, in Provence (Aix-en-Provence, Arles) if you want countryside or out in Normandy for the D-Day beaches for recent history.

Ireland - you could easily spend time in both Dublin and Cork. I'm assuming you're going to Cork for Blarney Castle, in which case 1 day will be plenty (it's not a huge castle). Dublin for 3 or 4 nights will be plenty, and don't forget there are flights out of Ireland to Europe so you don't have to go back through London if you've already been there. If you had 2 extra days you could also spend them in Galway (university town) and get out to the Connemara region which is beautiful. I'd suggest time in Dingle too, but that's just adding extra time you don't really have (of course depending on your final itinerary).

Germany - Cologne is pretty and warrants a day (hopefully WillTravel will add her comments) but I'd also suggest time in Munich as it is a German town worth visiting, it in the region of your travels (not far by train from Salzburg and has a major airport if required) and will offer something for everyone in your group (beer, castles down the road, history of Dachau and great art both in museums and churches).

You're wise not to try to cram too much in on this trip as even thought 4-6 weeks may seem like a lot of time, it will go quickly and you'll spend too much time travelling and not enough seeing if you add too many more places.

Happy planning!

[lisamichelle4512]

Thanks for the info! Since it is our first time to cross the Atlantic, we'd like to see a lot of the more "touristy" things and save the road less traveled for a future trip that I'm sure we'll take (I've heard no one ever goes to Europe just once...).

The only reason I really want to go to Copenhagen is to see the Little Mermaid. The Disney movie was the first one I ever saw in the theater and I love the book as well! I've always been a fan of mermaids (it's my bathroom decor currently, and I love to swim and teach swimming lessons), so I'd be happy if we took a plane there, hopped off, snapped a picture with the statue, and headed off somewhere else.

As far as getting to Greece goes would you suggest taking a boat or flying? And, does anyone know anything about getting a kayak for the day to explore to Ionian islands?

[Eagle]

lisamichelle, I'd like to second MTH's welcome to the Boards! I'm sure the helpful group here will be able to provide lots of tips to make your European travel plans a reality. Your idea to take the trip before you "become part of the real world" is a wise move. However, you should also assume you will return!

The first thought that I had when reading your post, was that you have a lot of destinations planned for a six-week trip. Given the geographical distances between some of them (Greece, Denmark), I suspect it's going to be somewhat "challenging" to realistically fit them all in. Six weeks is not a long time in terms of travel and while it may be possible to visit all the places you listed, you might find that spending a significant amount of your time in transit between locations is not the most enjoyable travel method. It's good practise to avoid one night stops, and some of the cities you listed need about 4-5 days. My suggestion would be to pare the list down a bit, and focus on locations that are easier to reach and those that all members of the group can agree on.

Regarding your question about "how to get from one place to another", this will depend to some extent on the specific locations. My usual preference is to use train for trips of 6-8 hours or so, and budget flights for longer trips. I find the flights to be a bit of a nuisance and try to use train whenever possible. Some of the airlines operate out of "distant" airports, so travel and cost to get to and from the airport has to be factored in as well. Then there's the usual check-in and security wait times, and increasingly rigid and costly baggage limits. Finally, most of these operate with a "sliding scale" for ticket costs, so only those who book early get the cheapest prices. Rail costs are getting more expensive too, but I still find the trip a lot more relaxing, especially as trains normally travel from the city centres so they are easy to access.

While we're on the topic of transportation, I'd suggest open-jaw flights for best efficiency. Talk to a travel agent to find out what flights are available from your area (David will probably have some good information on that!). You might want to start in Dublin and work towards London and then the continent?

It would help to know how you arrived at the list of cities in your first post? Are there specific sites you want to see in each of those locations? I have a few thoughts to add to the others on each of the places you listed:

> Ireland - Dublin is definitely a good stop! I was there last fall. I also enjoyed Dingle, Kinsale and Belfast. Not sure you'll have time for Cork?

> London - another great stop! There's LOTS to see and do, but even with free admissions to the British Museum (and others), it's an expensive city so you'll have to allow for that.

> Denmark - given the distance, travel times and generally "expensive" nature of the Scandinavian countries, this is one location you might drop this time (you said your budget was "pretty small")?

> Amsterdam - agree with the others.

> Germany - Cologne is a good choice for one day as MTH suggested, but Berlin and Munich are also good. Given the circumstances, you might focus on Munich as it will provide a lot of sights in a relatively close geographical area (Salzburg, Hallstatt, Vienna, etc.). Also, a visit to Munich provides the opportunity to visit Dachau (you mentioned history) or Neuschwanstein and Hohenschwangau Castles (you mentioned that Tyler likes Castles). The story of "Mad" King Ludwig and the Castles is really quite interesting!

>Belgium - you might also consider Bruges - most here consider it a more "authentic" and interesting stop.

> France - definitely Paris - you'll need to allow at least four days! You mentioned that Bethany likes art - the Louvre is excellent, but I found I enjoyed the Musee d'Orsay a bit more. The Louvre is HUGE and you won't be able to see all of it - concentrate on the Denon wing, which is where the Mona Lisa and the Venus di Milo are located. A Paris Museum Pass would be a really good idea!

> Spain - herrbert is the best one to answer questions on Spain.

> Italy - as the others have mentioned, Rome needs at least 4-5 days, as there is a LOT of history there! There's also some great art locations (Borghese Gallery) and it's a very vibrant and interesting city. Venice is such a unique location, it's probably necessary to see it at least once, even if it is a bit of a "tourist trap". I found it a bit more expensive than other locations in Italy though. You might also consider Florence (again, incredible works of Art such the statue of David and the architecture of Brunelleschi's "dome within a dome"). Have a look at other locations such as the Cinque Terre, Siena, Orvieto or other "hill towns".

> Greece - while there is certainly lots of history there, my preference would be to drop it this time, given the distances and cost to get there. A trip to Greece should involve more than just one or two days in Athens, so I'm not sure you'll have the time? Visits to the islands would be highly desirable also (Crete, Santorini, etc.).

>Austria - Salzburg, Hallstatt, Vienna or Innsbruck are all locations that you might consider (I'll be there in a few weeks and can provide more specific recommendations later on).

One country that's conspicuous by it's absence in your list is Switzerland? The small village of Gimmelwald (not to be confused with the larger and more touristy Grindelwald) is a favourite on the boards here. The Mountain Hostel there is very well rated. Have a look at www.gimmelwald.ch/english/index.htm to see if this might interest the group? There are many activities and sights to see in the Berner Oberland (Gimmelwald, Interlaken, Murren, etc.).

As usual, I highly recommend that travellers read the Guide book Europe Through The Back Door, as it provides a lot of information to help in planning trips, and covers everything from rail skills to languages to money and travel budget issues. It should be available in your local Library or book stores. You could also look at the Lonely Planet books or others.

Good luck with your planning!

[madamtrashheap]

lisamichelle4512 said:

As far as getting to Greece goes would you suggest taking a boat or flying? And, does anyone know anything about getting a kayak for the day to explore to Ionian islands?

A quicker way would be to fly to Athens and then even fly to the island you choose to visit (ferries take time, anything up to 8 hours Athens -Santorini). As for kayaking between the Ionian islands - most request that you are an experienced kayaker, but there are trips available which vary in length.

[mareeclo]

lisamichelle4512 said:

The only reason I really want to go to Copenhagen is to see the Little Mermaid. The Disney movie was the first one I ever saw in the theater and I love the book as well! I've always been a fan of mermaids (it's my bathroom decor currently, and I love to swim and teach swimming lessons), so I'd be happy if we took a plane there, hopped off, snapped a picture with the statue, and headed off somewhere else.

First of all welcome to the boards. I am sure you will find a lot of help on here

I just wanted to comment on the main reason why you want to fly to Copenhagen. If the only thing you really care about seeing there is the Little Mermaid, i would definatly skip it. I was there 2 years ago to visit a friend and I did the whole touristy thing which included a trip to see the little mermaid and it really is overrated. It's just a very little statue on a rock outside the city. Copenhagen was a nice city, but I wouldn't travel all the way there just for the mermaid. It'd be a waste of your time really.

[stylescriber]

i would love to hear a successful trip from you. I am looking to book a hotel at luxurylink.com

[jessus]

Your trip sounds a lot like mine! I've also never been to Europe, and am hitting the big sites and not so much on the road less travelled... the big difference is that I'm going for 2 FULL months (And Sept-Oct) - solo!

Out of your options. this is the way I'm doing it (but note: I'm following the warmer weather and since I'm going in fall and you in spring, the route might be more logical to do the other way around!). I'm repeating some info that other posters mentioned, but I think it makes most sense that way. And I hope that my plans can assist your plans at all!

- England (London) -for me: this + Bath (with Stonehenge)

- Belgium (Brussels) - I'm just stopping here because I can en route to Amsterdam, and just for lunch/afternoon. (I'm into it for the EU politics, one of my favourite painters Rene Magritte, and the interesting Belgian food: all sorts of good beer, their fries/seafood.. and.. yep waffles. Though I've also heard that Bruges is the prettier city for staying!)

- The Netherlands (Amsterdam) - this and I'm also daytripping... perhaps Haarlem (a 20 minute train ride or something), or The Hague (international politics!) + Delft (pottery!) which are very nearby each other

- Germany (Cologne) - I'm not hitting Cologne, but I am visiting other areas: Berlin for big history of Germany/the wall/all that... and Munich for what we in North America generally think of as "German" (actually Bavarian!).. beer, Mad King Ludwig's castles, and seeing a slice of the darker side, Dachau

- Denmark (Copenhagen) - I used to have it on my itinerary here, but decided it didn't fit: The one useful part I can add here is that the main thing I wanted to see was Christiania, the autonomous hippie "country" that's pretty much separate from Denmark)

--> squeezing in Prague, Czech Republic (as its on the way from Berlin to Vienna)

- Austria (Salzburg-sound of music!) - I'm focusing on Vienna for it's culture (and music!) and general prettines, and jsut stopping at Salzburg briefly for a walk in the meadows (no Sound of Music tour though, I'm not that hardcore...), and checking out Mozart's birthplace or residence

- Italy (Rome, Venice) - Here I'm doing Rome, Venice, Naples (to see Pompeii), and Cinque Terre (read any Rick Steves guide or his online stuff and you'll be hooked)

- Spain (Barcelona, running of the bulls) - I'm only doing Barcelona in Spain, for the pure reason of seeing the Gaudi architecture (my favourite!) and the favourite places and "Theatre-Museum" of Salvador Dali (my favourite artist!). As well as to sample some of the cuisine of Spain - mm... tapas! [The Dali Teatro-Museo is actually in Figueres though, which is just nearby..]

- Greece (Olympia, Athens) --> ahh... the one place I was never planning on, despite my love for Greek myths! To me, it didn't fit into my route even from the beginning, and I decided it would be a future trip to itself!

- France (Paris) - I'm doing this, but before that, I'm hitting up several areas in the south of France! (some Provence - Aix-en-Provence, Arles, Marseille and other: Carcassone.. a really neat seeming medieval walled village)

- Ireland (Dublin or Cork) - my last stop! And since I've heard Ireland is best done by car, I'm doing it by.. tour! I'm visiting Dublin on my own, then planning to take a Paddy Wagon tour!

Anyway.... I hope my rambling helped you! (It is the middle of the night, so I hope I'm logical at all).

And if you want to know how my trip went AFTER I take it, feel free to drop me a line