Backpacking or Tour group (Contiki for example)

[shekers]

Alright, I know this is a backpacking biased forum, but please try to be as objective as possible.

My roommate and I are planning for a trip in May. I've basically set everything up, where we're staying, how to travel between countries and how long we're staying. The only thing left is what exactly we're doing in each city. I've calculated to be about 4000$ Canadian, that is IF we spend 75$/day WITHOUT hostel/hotel living cost (it's included in the 4000$ calculation, which means 75$/day for eating and touring [yes yes...WAY above what one is needed...but we want to see the MAXIMUM we will need]). I want to do it this way 'cuz it's more flexible and we can change our plan as we go.

My roommate has been hearing about contiki from his family and his friends and he wants to do it that way. His main reason is that we will be spending 30 days with the same people and that we would be able to have a better social time than if we were to travel cities for cities for a couple of days.

Since this is our first time, we will be only visiting main cities, London, Brussels/Brugge/Amsterdam/Berlin/Munich/Rome/Florence/Paris. We've never really experience rather the social life would be better on a tour group or by doing the hostel scene.

So what are your opinions? And also, which one would you recommend?

Thanks

[madamtrashheap]

Welcome to GFE, shekers!

This is a question that comes up quite frequently on these Boards, so to start you off, have a look at this Post pretravel.proboards1.com/index.c.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=1172968348&page=1 as my answer remains the same - it all depends on what you're looking for in terms of travel style.

[shekers]

Thanks for the answer.

That's basically what i've been able to find out so far by googling.

I guess, my specific question is (to bascially break the dead-lock argument between me and my roommate) that, would you really notice a difference, social-wise, between tour groups and living in hostels.

It sounds like a silly thing to weigh-in for a trip to europe...considering it's a trip to europe, and you'll meet people on the way and it's not the primary reason for going to europe...but my roommate is only bringing this up as his argument for wanting to go with a tour group...

I'm very firm on my decision on going as backpackers, it's just that, since I dont have much experience with living in hostels, I was just wondering if meeting people in hostels is easy...My thoughts are that...people living in hostels are in the same situation as we are...yes it might be only for like 3-4 days...but we'll be meeting so many more different characters.

lol...sounds like a personal issue...but please do give your opinions.

[madamtrashheap]

The difference you'd notice between a group together for 30 days and people you meet backpacking would be that you'll have 30 continual days to build up friendships and really get to know people on tour, whilst backpacking you'll find that you may only have a few days with people and won't see them again unless your paths cross later or you arrange to travel together for the rest of your time. Hostels are quite social places so you'll always find other travellers.

It's not a silly thing to take into consideration for your trip as your experiences with other people whilst travelling are as important in shaping memories as those experiences of places visited.

One advantage of backpacking would be that if there are people you meet that you're not that fond of, you won't be "stuck" with them as you'll move on, whereas on tour they'll still be in your orbit (but you can avoid them by not sitting next to them on the coach/at the bar!) You will meet people either way as even if you're in a tour group you don't have to live in each others pockets and will chance across other travellers - in the line to a museum, at a bar, buying postcards...you name it. You're going to meet people so I guess your desicion is based on how long you want to spend with people and how much planning you want to do.

Is your roommate concerned about travelling "alone" (ie just the two of you) and not having a safelty net of a tour? This may be another reason for his stance, but he just hasn't said it.

Random thought: could you compromise and do a short tour (on that goes somewhere between 10-15 days) then the rest of the time backpacking to cities not covered by the tour (or more time in some of the cities)?

[Eagle]

shekers, first of all, while this is primarily a "backpacking forum", most of us don't mind answering any questions related to European travel.

Regarding your questions, MTH has covered almost exactly what I was going to say. I've never checked the Contiki tours, as I believe I'm "too old". However, I have been on organized tours, and will be embarking on another one in a few weeks. Lately my preference has been to structure my holidays to include a combination of a tour along with some self guided travel.

MTH touched on one point that would be a major concern for me with a 30-day tour. I'm not sure I would want to be with the same group for that length of time? With a good group this might not be a problem, but unfortunately it's the "luck of the draw" when you sign up for a tour, and you have to accept whatever group you end up with. I've found from experience that even with a group that gets along well, after two weeks I'm getting a bit anxious to have some freedom from the tour schedule and be on my own for a while. Still, it's always a bit sad to say goodbye to the group. The last breakfast together is usually both a cheerful remembrance of shared experiences, blended with the melancholy feeling that you're saying goodbye to the people you've enjoyed the tour with (most of which you probably will never meet again).

Regarding "meeting people in Hostels", I doubt that you'll have any difficulty with that at all! Depending on which Hostels you choose, there are usually a wide range of people there from many different countries and different age groups (the only location with an age restriction for Hostels is Bavaria AFAIK, and this only applies to some Hostels). There's usually a "common room" where everybody congregates, and Hostel staff are always a good source of information on local events or ways to get around each city. Note that some Hostels are "co-ed" (M & F together in Dorm rooms). If you haven't booked Hostels yet, one thing I prefer is a WC / Shower in each room (as opposed to "down the hall"). Also, try to get at least a four-bed dorm room, rather than a 6 / 8 / 10 bed room (if there's only one bathroom in each room, you could be waiting a LONG time for a shower in the morning if you're the last one in line!).

I haven't checked to see if you've posted an Itinerary yet. Where are you flying from in Canada? I'd suggest "open jaw" flights for best efficiency, even though the cost might be slightly higher. I'm assuming that you've checked other Posts here with regards to money issues, languages, rail travel, etc.? Finally, what methods have you been using to plan your trip?

May isn't far off, so I imagine you're getting the Backpacks loaded up!

Cheers!

[shekers]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I've talked to my roommate some more...and basically...we're going for different reasons. I want to soak up Europe as a travel experience, meeting people on the way, seeing stuff i've never before.

My roommate wants to go to Europe for the parties.

I've been planning this trip for more than a month now. I've been reading the forums here and i've basically planned our trip on excel.

We're taking Air-Transat, leaving from toronto to london on the 2nd (arriving on the 3rd), and coming back from Paris on the 30th. Total is 600$ tax included.

Days in cities include:
3.5 days in London,
2 days in Brugges (kinda skipping Brussels, we'll be there for a day but not staying there)
about 4 days in Amsterdam
3.5 days in Berlin
3 days in Munich
1 day in Lucerne
3-4 days in Rome (since Florence is only about 1 hour away from Rome...we'll go between these two cities depending on if we find something cool in Rome)
3-4 days in Florence
4 days in Paris.


Most of the hostels I've looked at, we'll be in a room with 4-6 people, 9 MAX (in Amsterdam). I've looked at reviews on hostelworld, mainly checking out if it's good location, if it's "fun" and how much it costs. Cost hasnt been the biggest issue.

I mean, i've read basically to choose between backpacking and a tour is...if you dont want to plan anything...just relax and go with the pack...go with a tour, but if you dont mind planning (which i dont) go with backpacking.

[WillTravel]

Maybe you and your roommate can do separate things? No harm in the fact you both have different objectives - and this way you'd both get what you want.

[madamtrashheap]

shekers said:

I've talked to my roommate some more...and basically...we're going for different reasons. I want to soak up Europe as a travel experience, meeting people on the way, seeing stuff i've never before.

My roommate wants to go to Europe for the parties.

Hence my suggestion to perhaps compromise and do both. Just to put your roommate's mind at rest, all of us here can (and have) noted that you will meet people on your travels so there's no danger of never finding anyone else to talk to. And you'll find that many of the Hostels you stay in not only can recommend places for clubbing/barring/general merriment but they may also organise events in the accommodation or take you to cool places - just ask what's on when you arrive at each place.

Other comments in blue:

shekers said:

Days in cities include:
3.5 days in London, This will just allow for sightseeing in the city, no day trips (unless you sacrifice a day, which is, of course, dependent on your interests)
2 days in Brugges (kinda skipping Brussels, we'll be there for a day but not staying there) That's perfect - time for a beer, some mussels and fries and a quick waffle whilst walking to see the Mannekin Pis and the Grand'Place before heading out to Bruges. Are you doing any day trips (eg Ieper/Ypres) from Brugge/Bruges?
about 4 days in Amsterdam - that's a lot, even for "extra curricular" activities.
3.5 days in Berlin How are you getting from Amsterdam to Berlin - fly or train?
3 days in Munich Again, how are you getting from Munich to Berlin? 3 days will allow for day trips to the castles and Dachau as well as time in the city.
1 day in Lucerne Err, if you're only going for one day is it worth it? Luzern is gorgeous, and can be done in one day if you get up early, catch the first cable car up Mt Pilatus or Stanserhorn, then back down for time to walk around the city, but again I can't tell if your travel time is included in this or not (hope not, it's a long way from Munich to Luzern).
3-4 days in Rome (since Florence is only about 1 hour away from Rome...we'll go between these two cities depending on if we find something cool in Rome) I'd suggest going Luzern-Florence then on to Rome. The Eurostar Italia is 1hr30mins between Florence and Rome, but you won't want to catch that every day as it's Euro30 one way. 4 days in Rome and 3-4 in Florence (depending on day trips) will be fine this time around.
3-4 days in Florence Any day trips planned?
4 days in Paris. A good amount of time for Paris.

Another question: is this the order in which you plan to travel?

[shekers]

Yeah that is the order of my plan.

So, discussed it further with my roommat and I've taken your advice madamtrashheap.

So we're basically probably gonna be with contiki for 20 days and go backpacking ourselves for 14 days. 4 days b4 the tour and about 10 after.

[madamtrashheap]

Aaah compromise - it's a lovely thing! ;D And you'll enjoy the organised tour aspect of it too (I'm sure of it).

Righti-o, as it's April I'd suggest, before you set all of this in stone, you check availability of seats on the tour you're looking at (there's a 19day Contiki one that looks v good or take the "Concept" 20 day one as it will be more of the "party" atmosphere that your roommate is looking for but still covers a good selection). Often tour companies have "early bird" booking specials so seats can book out in advance. But if you get right on to it (either on their website or with your travel agent) you might be OK. Have you checked tour prices to see if they fit into your budget? Many things are included, but not all so you'll still need money to cover some meals, going out, etc.

As far as your own itinerary goes, can I suggest a few things? Perhaps spend the 4 days before the tour in London (no doubt you're already doing this, but just in case you're not...) then the 10 or so days after the tour can be spent going to places eithe rnot covered by the tour or a few covered on tour but that warrant a re-visit. 10 days doesn't leave you with a lot, so choose places that interest you then fill in the gaps afterwards.

Keep us posted on your progress.

[shekers]

Thanks for all the inputs!

Yeah, nothing is set it stone yet, but it's probably 80-90% sure. We're probably doing the European Swirl from Contiki, which is 18-19 (even though they say it's 20 days the first and last day, u dont do jack...) We're going to London first, spend 4 days on our own, then join up with contiki. We leave the tour group in Paris, we'll either stay there for a couple of days, or leave that for when we come back to get on our plane home. From Paris, i am thinking we go to Belgium and quite possibly Luxumberg. 10 Days, i don't want to go too far.

My thoughts right now is after the tour, we go straight to Belgium, Brugges for 2 days (max). After that, I'm not too sure how to work our way back to Paris...or maybe do Antwerp or even Rotterdam...i'm not too sure, suggestions?

[madamtrashheap]

shekers said:

We're probably doing the European Swirl from Contiki, which is 18-19 (even though they say it's 20 days the first and last day, u dont do jack...) We're going to London first, spend 4 days on our own, then join up with contiki. We leave the tour group in Paris,

I found a European Whirl - guessing that's what you meant. And it's a Concept style of tour so you'll have the social aspect too. And the first and last days are travel days (driving London to Amsterdam takes a good chunk of the day) but no doubt you'll have the first evening in Amsterdam to run amok so it's not a wasted day. Plus you cram a lot into the 20 days.

Good idea to get off in Paris rather than return to London - from their you can go up to Brussels/Brugge if that's still on your list and even think about flying to places that aren't on your tour. There's no need to limit yourself to places close to Paris when flights are cheap. Rotterdam used to have an incredible clubbing scene, but it's quietened down a little since the 90s (still good clubs, but not a scenic city) and Antwerp is a day trip from either Brussels or Brugge, but it depends on your interests. You could look at Barcelona or Madrid (flights from Paris are cheap and easy to find) or even back to Berlin (I suspect you'll enjoy this city). If you're interested in history, you might find that the full day in Rome doesn't cover all of the places you want to see (although you'll get at least the Vatican/Sistine Chapel, Colosseum and Roman Forum in to your day) so you could fly back there from Paris.

I know your flight back to Toronto is from Paris, but it's easy to fly in and out so don't be limited by train travel/distance too much when picking other cities to visit. If, however, you have your heart set on the Low Countries (Belgium, Luxembourg, Netherlands) then that's groovy as there are plenty of interesting places to visit. For example: Belgium: Brussels, Brugge/Bruges, Ieper/Ypres (day trip from Brugge for WWI battlefields), Antwerp, Ghent (both of which could be day trips); Luxembourg: Luxembourg city is probably your best bet as although it's a pretty country, it's expensive for travellers; Netherlands: Amsterdam (if you want to visit again), Den Haag/The Hague, Groningen, Maastricht, Delft. I'm not saying visit all , just giving you some places that might interest you.

[shekers]

So a little update and questions...

So after a couple of days of requesting for quotes from Contiki...we've finally found one which is not fully booked on the appropriate date!

We've selected the European Discover. ca.contiki.com/tours/109-european-discovery

It is definitely action packed...

So our plan now is to get to London on the 3rd, spend 4 days there and meet up with the tour on the 8th.

The tour ends on the 21st in Paris, so this is where the backpacking starts. We will spend 21st in Paris, 22nd we'll take a day trip to Caen/Bayeux to take the Normandy Beach tour. On the 23rd we'll be going to Brugges for 2 days (we'll stop in Brussels in transit). On the 25th we'll work our way to Amsterdam (we dont think the tour will do it justice!). On the 27th we'll head to Berlin. We'll spend 3.5 days there, and leave for Prague on the 31st. Finally, on the 3rd, we'll leave Prague for Munich, which we will fly out of there on the 4th (we found that it was actually cheaper to fly out of munich...and riding a train from Prague back to Paris is REALLY backbreaking lol).

We are going to get the Eurail Select 3 country, 5day pass. I am worried about the leg between Berlin-Prague-Munich. I realize Czech Republic is not included in the Eurail Select pass...so we have to take a train from Berlin to a border city. I've used Railsaver.com to look for the best value, and it told me to get a city-to-city pass...SO it'll be Berlin to Decin (if i'm correct about this...this is a city in Cz Rep...How does that work?), Decin to Prague. From Prague to Munich...it'll be a City to City Pass from Prague to Furth im. Wald and then from then on to Munich with the Eurail Pass.

I am actually kind of scared about doing all the switching. I would rather take a night train from Prague to Munich, but I can't seem to find it...and even if I do find one, it has like 4 change of stops and during mid-night to 5 in the morning, we're actually waiting for a train!

So any suggestion, or words of wisdom to make me feel better about the train travel between Berlin-Prague-Munich or anything for that matter? (lol).

Also...are they days spent in those cities good? I haven't really looked into Prague. I thought we might just wing most of it lol.