Allotting days in Spain/Italy/Switz/Belgium/Amstd.

[bcasper1]

Hey everybody, this summer me and my friends are going to backpack across Europe hitting, Spain, Italy, Switzerland, Belgium and Amsterdam. I’m going to list the cities we finally came up with, including the amount of days we figured. Please feel free to comment on the number of days you think we should allot to each. By the way we plan on 4 weeks of travel, about 28 days.

Traveling in this order:

Madrid - (3 nights)
Zaragoza - (1 night)
Barcelona - (2 nights) - Girona (only to fly to Rome)
Rome - (4 or 5 nights)
Florence - (3 nights)
Bologna - (??skip??)
Venice - (1 night)
(moderate travel time here)
Interlaken - (3 nights)
(a lot of travel time here)
Brugge - (1 or 2 nights)
Amsterdam - (3 nights)

Thanks for your posts!

[me]

most of those are places i've visited. but, i haven't been to Zaragoza or Bologna. nor have i made it to Brugge yet, it's definitely on my "to do" list!

to me, Barcelona was more interesting than Madrid. or, will you be recovering from jetlag in Madrid?

if you plan it well, you might be able to make a stop in Siena between Rome & Florence to check out that fab town square w/ it's wonderful city hall, and take a look at Siena's cool cathedral.

a day trip to Pisa from Florence might fit with your plans, no?

know nothing about Bologna, but the pictures look nice.

Venice is great. don't know that 1 night will give enough time there.

one way to increase your time there might be to take a night train out of Venice, giving you a full day there - wake up in a Venice hostel there, go to sleep on a night train the next night. [that's what i did, my reservations at the Venice hostel didn't work to spend more than one night there]

you could take the EN 358 heading for Milano Centrale at 22.52. but, stay on until Brig at 06.15. where you transfer to a train for Spiez, with another connection to Interlaken Ost.

one problem with Interlaken, the highlight of my visit there, the train up to Jungfraujoch, has gotten ever more expensive. even the Good Morning Ticket, with early morning departure, costs CHF 148.60!

getting from Interlaken Ost to Brugge, if you're able to depart by 14.56 - 14.25 would save you a connection, you could get to Brugge by 7.30 the next morning. both these trips include 5½ hours on a night train. [but, you can't do this with one day on a rail pass - or maybe you can?] wait, to figure this all out i'd need to get some dates, at least ballpark dates.

[bcasper1]

Yes, the main reason I decided to stop in Zaragoza is that it’s on the way by train from Madrid to Barcelona. And you are correct about why I chose 3 nights in Madrid, to shake off the jet lag since me and my friends have never traveled to Europe.

Thanks for the tip about Siena; I will have to look into that more. Also the day trip to Pisa, I will have to see what my friends think. Perhaps I will cut out Bologna and add more time to Florence/Pisa and Siena? The reason I chose 1 night for Venice was that I heard that unless you were really into the churches and museums that one night would suffice, maybe they were wrong, but we will be a bunch of college grads looking to have a great time experiencing the environment, not so much museums (though I’m sure we will see some). So if you think after considering that, we need more time let me know.

When you are talking about the train from Venice to Interlaken what do all these numbers mean and where did you research this? I’m interested so I can look into it more.

And when your talking about getting from Interlaken Ost to Brugge, what are you referring to by 14.56 - 14.24? Sorry for seeming like such a train novice, I am.

As for ball park dates, we hope to leave at the very end of May, roughly the 28th. We would approximately be leaving Venice for Interlaken around June 14th or so. Then leaving Interlaken for Brugge roughly on the 18th or 19th. This is all very tentative I should mention.

Thanks for your help. Anyone else have anything to add?

[me]

there's a night train from Madrid to Barcelona, too. that'd give 3 nights in Barcelona, an amazing city! [if the only reason for visiting Zaragoza is to break up the train trip]

the train from Venice to Brig departs at 22.52 (10:52 pm) and is numbered "EN 358." that's what those numbers mean.

the Interlacken to Brugge train times refer to an ealier train which is point to point (@ 2.25 pm) and a later train (@ 2.56pm) which requires an extra connection.

<by the way, i get my train info from the German Rail site: www.Bahn.de (reading German isn't much of a problem for me, besides, they also provide English translations for those who need them)>

i am a museum kind of guy. hey, i studied at a liberal arts college! but, i also like buildings <architecture> and, especially, music & local culture.

- d

[bcasper1]

I guess your right about Zarragoza, there is no point. I'll take your word on Barcelona and add an extra night there.

Madrid - (3 nights)
Barcelona - (3 nights) - Girona (only to fly to Rome)
Rome - (4 or 5 nights)
Florence - (3 nights)
Venice - (2 night)
(moderate travel time here)
Interlaken - (3 nights)
(a lot of travel time here)
Brugge - (1 or 2 nights)
Amsterdam - (3 nights)

[herrbert]

If you are not stopping in Zaragoza then you might want to take a look at the vueling-website, they offer flights between Madrid and Barcelona for 40 euros (included taxes and fees). If you take a bus between Barcelona and Girona to catch the ryanairflight to Roma, you could save yourself buying a railpass for Spain (or a European one, with one country less, and save you some money), just to compare a p2p-train ticket would cost you 63 euro (not included the anual raise in january)

In my opinion both cities (Madrid and Barcelona) are worth a stay when you visit Spain. Barcelona on itself may look the better destination, but if you include all the possible daytrips in the Madrid area, Madrid might be the better one.

[rchua]

interlaken is a bit expensive place to stay. i bought a McDonald value meal for about $11 US (my excuse for this is that i wanted to eat McD's once at each city i visited). there's a sandwich place that my friend and i ate at everyday. the price was reasonable and the food was good. i forgot what the name of the place was but it was close to Happy Inn Hostel. and if you'll be in the area you definately need to check out murren. it's a great place to go hiking.

[me]

rchua said:

interlaken is a bit expensive place to stay.

Switzerland is an expensive place to stay!

[madamtrashheap]

bcasper1 said:

And when your talking about getting from Interlaken Ost to Brugge, what are you referring to by 14.56 - 14.24? Sorry for seeming like such a train novice, I am.

In Europe you'll find a lot of times (trains, planes, TV guides!) are written in 24hour clock time, as David translated (22.52 = 10.52pm). It's handy as it minimises confusion as to exactly what time of day something is scheduled. People don't always speak this way (i.e. see you at 13 hundred hours for lunch), but in the Germanic countries you'll find they do more often than not - it's a cultural thing, love it!

Good choice on skipping Bologna in favour of more time in Tuscany (Florence, Siena, Pisa). It's a great city, but I think you'll enjoy the extra time in Florence, etc.

As for Brugge, I suggest 2 nights as it's a pretty city to wander in and you would have travelled a way to get there, so will allow for a "rest" of sorts. Plus it's not far by train to Amsterdam, so you'll have time to spare on the travel day.

Florence to Venice is a quick train trip, so if you find yourself wanting more time in Florence, you could just leave early in the morning for Venice and spend 1 night, but have effectively and afternoon and the following morning to venture around. Having said that, 2 nights will allow for a full day of exploring, as well as a half day once you arrive from Florence - the time is yours to play with.

[bcasper1]

So now our itinerary looks like the following. Now I have included flights/bus/and some train prices/times that we will be taking. (I'm aware it takes extra time at the airports!)

JFK Airport
(fly $266 - 7.25hr)
Madrid (3 nights)
(fly $40 - 1hr 10min)
Barcelona (3 nights)
(bus $16 - 1hr 10min)
Girona (0 nights)
(fly $40 - 1.5hr)
Rome (4/5 nights)
(train - 1hr 36min)
Florence (3 nights)
(bus - 1hr 20 min)
Siena (day trip)
(bus - 1hr 20 min)
Florence (cont...)
(train - 2hr 51min)
Venice (2 night)
(train - 6.5hr)
Interlaken (3 nights)
(train – not sure yet)
Brugge (2 nights)
(train – not sure yet)
Amsterdam (3 nights)
(fly $420 - 9h 10min/50min transfer)
JFK Airport

If this is at all confusing, plesae let me know and I can edit it. I really want everyone to be able to understand so I can recieve as much advice as I can get. Thanks everyone!

[herrbert]

To fill in one gap: the trainjourney between Brugge and Amsterdam normally takes 3 hours and 35 minutes.

Between Interlaken (Ost) and Brugge there are a lot of options, but I would advise you to take a route, that takes you through Germany, rather than France. The reason is simple: in Germany you can change trains very easy, most stops in France will have you walking for some while. If you want a break and you choose a route that takes you to Cologne (and some routes do), you can take a look at the Cathedral that is just outside of the station. This will be a long day on a train !! (at least 9 and a half hours).

I saw that you made a comment earlier, that you were not sure Brugge should be one or two nights. I would reckon two nights, if you get tired of Brugge in one day, than you could take a train and see nearby Gent, Antwerpen or Brussels (or on a hot day, the beach).

[bcasper1]

Cool thanks for the advice on the train through Germany rather then France. We figured that for that train ride we would do it through the night and sleep it out.

[herrbert]

There is a train that can take you to Brugge overnight, but it leaves already at 14.56 in the afternoon, but that one takes more than 16 hours!, and makes a huge detour. (takes you to Bielefield, where you have to wait on the train for 1 hour and 20 minutes from 23.18 to 00.38).

Another option, leaves you waiting in Liege for more than 4 hours in the middle of the night. I don't know if they actually close the station. (most stations close, so they don't function as a shelter for homeless people). And Liege is not a place you want to stay outside for half a night, with you backpack.

I think you have to settle for a normal daytrain, that takes less time to get there! (on the nighttrain you will get a maximum of 5 and half hours sleep (between Bielefeld and Brussels), and this is almost the amount of time you are travelling longer! You just have to calculate this a travelling day.

This is a link to the site where you can see the information on the trains between Interlaken and Brugge reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/dn?ld=212.55&seqnr=5&ident=8z.0514055.1163546495&REQ0HafasScrollDir=1 You can click on the route, to see the details.

[me]

the shortest daytrain option is 08.56 - 18.29 with 4 transfers. a long day on rails.

another night train option, not listed by bahn.de, depart Interlaken Ost at 13.56 via Basel Swiss rail station (get there at 15.59, depart at 16.12) and Wolfsburg. get to Wolfsburg at 22.16, and board that same night train "NZ242" that departs Bielefeld at 0.38, but at 22.52. this means you'd get almost 7½ hours uninterupted on the night train instead of just 5½.

that makes for an even bigger detour, but does a detour bother you? it seems that what matters is reaching your destination in reasonably good shape, not how you get there.

would it be a good trade to you - one hour less in Interlacken in exchange for nearly two more hours of sleep on the night train?

[bcasper1]

yeah, I mean that makes more sense. But either way you guys are describing, we will be going through Germany, so if you were in my situation on my route which railpass would make sense. We would be going through Italy, Switzerland, Germany, Belgium and then Amsterdam by train. Spain we avoided train by bus and flights and we are all under 25.