London - late September - early october

[mareeclo]

Well here I am planning yet another trip to Europe. Every year I travel over to Europe to visit my mom who lives in Switzerland and I always try to take advantage of my time there to make a stop in another country just to see somewhere new This year, I've decided to make a quick stop in London.

I have recieved great advices on this site for former trips and thought I'd come here again for all the questions I have about London.

I am planning on flying out of my hometown (Montreal, Canada) on September 27th, 2007, arriving on September 28th in London. I will be purchasing my plane ticket within the next 3 weeks, I'm still trying to decide which airline I want to travel with, or should I say which airline my wallet will allow me to travel with lol So far I've narrowed my options to 3 different ones: Air Transat, Air Canada and Brittish Airways. These are the 3 airlines I found the lowest fares with. I think I'm probably going to end up choosing between Air Canada et Brittish Airways though.

Anyways ... I plan on being in London from September 28th to October 2nd. I know it sounds like a very short stay, but it's all I can afford right now and I don't want to cut too much into my stay in Switzerland Besides, I just really want to see London (never been there), get a feel of the city and maybe then see if I want to come back for a longer stay later on and see more of England I'll be purchasing a ticket from London to Geneva or Basel through easyjet too.

I'm a single young woman (33), travelling alone and not too much into the partying scene. I don't really enjoy travelling alone, but couldn't find anyone to join me on my trip and I've stopped myself from going where I wanted to go before because I didn't have anyone to go with and this time I want to push my limits, prove to myself that travelling alone can be fun. Anyways, I've been reading over the board, reading online and reading guides, but I still need help on figuring out some things.

So, here I go with all my questions :

1. I'm assuming London is like every big cities, there are safe and unsafe areas. Is there any areas I should avoid wandering into ? I do have a black belt in Karate, but I do not wish to return home leaving a poor english bloke in the hospital, though that'd give me something to tell people home when I get back lol

2. Which area should I book my hotel in ? I was thinking about looking into areas around Kensington Garden and Hyde Park meaning either Notting Hill, Bayswater, Kensington, S. Kensington or Knightsbridge ? Which would you say is the safest ? the calmest ? the one that has the easiest access to the Underground ? I'm actually looking into getting a room in a Bed & Breakfast type of hotel. I'm not into Hostels much and finding a cheap fare into hotels in London can be kind of tricky. Should I look somewhere else ?

3. Is London safe at night ? I don't really plan on going out on my own at night while I'm there, but let's say one night I decided to wander outside a little later than planned or decided to catch a play or a movie, would it be safe for me to take the tube or walk my way back to my hotel at night ?

4. I'm planning on mostly using the Tube, buses, trains and my feet to make my way around the city. I've looked into the Oystercard, but I'm not too sure I understand how it works. It looks kind of complicated. Anyone tried that ? Would I be better off with the travelcard ? Or is it spending money on something I don't really need and I could do most of the city by foot and just buy a ticket if I want to go a bit further ?

Ok, I'm sure I will come up with more questions, but I'll leave you a chance to answer these before I go on

Thanks for your help ...

[Eagle]

mareecio, I'm not sure I can answer all of your questions, but I'll try to offer a few tips. BTW, which part of Switzerland will you be visiting? I was in the Berner Oberland last fall, and had a fantastic time!

First of all, some comments on the airlines.

Air Transat - good choice. I've flown with them in the past, and the service has been great, although passengers are packed in fairly tight (that seems to be somewhat "normal" for charters).

Air Canada - I've flown with them for regional flights, but never trans-atlantic (with somewhat "mixed" results). If they have a good fare, something to consider.

British Airways - I'm not sure they are as reliable now as they used to be? I seem to recall seeing something in the news in the last week or so concerning B.A. I think it had something to do with their baggage handling practises. They seem to "lose and damage" a higher percentage of passenger luggage than other airlines.

Zoom Air - I've also flown with Zoom and found the service great! I'll be flying with them again this fall to England, and will be trying out both the economy as well as the premium fare. I'll post a note when I get back to offer some impressions on the difference in service, and whether premium is worth the extra cost. If you're able to adjust your schedule a bit, I found a flight on Zoom leaving Montreal Trudeau to London Gatwick on 25 September, at a cost of $279.00 (seems like a fantastic price!).

Now to your other questions:

1.) I'm sure there are "safe and unsafe" areas, but I don't have specific information on that at the moment (hopefully one of the other members can advise?). I'll have a better idea after my trip this fall. Wow, a Black Belt! Pity the poor bugger that tries to rip-off your backpack!

2.) There are several good areas of London for lodgings, but I chose the Victoria Station neighborhood (Belgravia), mostly due to the fact that it's a fairly central location, has good proximity to the Tube stations and also the Coach station. There are some reasonably priced B&B-style Hotels in that area. What price range and facilities are you looking for?

3.) I've heard that London is safer at night than many cities in the U.S. and Canada, but again I suppose this depends on which neighborhood you're in?

4.) Transportation & tickets - I believe the Oystercard comes in two different versions: the 7-day Oystercard and the Pay-As-You-Go Oystercard (which you can "load" with a variable amount of funds in £10 increments. There's a £3.00 one-time fee to cover the cost of the Card. The Oystercards can be used for the Tube, Buses and the Docklands Light Railway. The "general rule" seems to be that if you don't plan on riding public transit every day, then the PAYG Oystercard is the best value. For three to five consecutive days, a three day Travelcard as well as one day Travelcards is supposedly the best value.

I'll be in London for a week and will probably be buying a PAYG Oystercard, although I plan on walking where possible as well. I find it very helpful to do some pre-planning on which sites I want to visit, and using a good quality map I can then determine which locations will be within walking distance. I usually copy and enlarge the map pages from my favourite guide books.

You mentioned that you were planning to go to a play. I believe there's a half-price ticket booth at Leicester Square. Might be something to consider?

Finally, you indicated that you've been "reading guides". I'm assuming you're referring to Guide books? Which books have you been using?

I'm 55+ and also travelling "solo" these days. I'm also not much into the party scene (although I don't mind a pint of Guinness on occasion!). I'll be on my own in England, but will be joining a tour group in Ireland (not sure how well I will adapt to that???)

Hope this is some help. Hopefully, the others will have a few comments as well?

Cheers!

[pointofnoreturn]

I've flown out Montreal to London with both Air Canada and Zoom Airlines. Didn't have a problem with either and we've always landed early. I think I might prefer Zoom Airlines because it's cheaper but then again, you don't really get any miles/points on the flights.

As a London fanatic... (it's seriously my favourite city):

1. I'm assuming London is like every big cities, there are safe and unsafe areas. Is there any areas I should avoid wandering into ? I do have a black belt in Karate, but I do not wish to return home leaving a poor english bloke in the hospital, though that'd give me something to tell people home when I get back lol

London is safe if you're smart and aware of your surroundings. That being said, try to avoid walking alone late at night. I believe tubes stop running just after midnight but I don't think you should have any problems with pickpocketing. If you catch someone trying to pickpocket you, just yell for help and you'll see a bunch of English rugby/football men running after the guy LOL.

2. Which area should I book my hotel in ? I was thinking about looking into areas around Kensington Garden and Hyde Park meaning either Notting Hill, Bayswater, Kensington, S. Kensington or Knightsbridge ? Which would you say is the safest ? the calmest ? the one that has the easiest access to the Underground ? I'm actually looking into getting a room in a Bed & Breakfast type of hotel. I'm not into Hostels much and finding a cheap fare into hotels in London can be kind of tricky. Should I look somewhere else ?

For a good B&B, definitely go to the Hyde Park/Paddington/Kensington area. I would absolutely recommend Hyde Park Rooms. It's a 2 minute walk from Paddington train station/tube station (Paddington has a direct link to Heathrow Airport, if you're flying with Air Canada BTW). Not to mention, the B&B is a 5-10 minutes walk from Kensington Gardens/Hyde Park. Wonderful lady who runs it and she cooks up the best breakfast I've had at any B&B. The website is www.hydeparkrooms.com

3. Is London safe at night ? I don't really plan on going out on my own at night while I'm there, but let's say one night I decided to wander outside a little later than planned or decided to catch a play or a movie, would it be safe for me to take the tube or walk my way back to my hotel at night ?

See (1)

4. I'm planning on mostly using the Tube, buses, trains and my feet to make my way around the city. I've looked into the Oystercard, but I'm not too sure I understand how it works. It looks kind of complicated. Anyone tried that ? Would I be better off with the travelcard ? Or is it spending money on something I don't really need and I could do most of the city by foot and just buy a ticket if I want to go a bit further ?

Buy an Oyster card - based on the info you gave me, this should be the cheapest way. You'll be able to get a 3-pound refund when you are leaving London. This should be the most economical method for you.

Please don't hesitate to ask me anything - I know London like the back of my hand so you're very welcome to send me a private message or post a reply or new topic or whatever

[mareeclo]

eagle said:

BTW, which part of Switzerland will you be visiting? I was in the Berner Oberland last fall, and had a fantastic time!

Well seeing as I've been in Switzerland a lot (this will be my 6th trip there), I have been all over. The Berner Oberland really is my favorite part of the country though My mom lives in the french speaking region of Switzerland near the French and German customs. It's a really nice area.

Air Transat - good choice. I've flown with them in the past, and the service has been great, although passengers are packed in fairly tight (that seems to be somewhat "normal" for charters.

This is one of the reason Air Transat is not my number one favorite. I travelled from Montreal to Amsterdam last year on United Airlines and we were pretty much squeezed in and I promised myself I'd never do that again Besides the price difference is not that much different with the other airlines (like 30$CAD)

Air Canada - I've flown with them for regional flights, but never trans-atlantic (with somewhat "mixed" results). If they have a good fare, something to consider.

Haven't flown with them in years, but my sister has and she had mixed reviews too.

British Airways - I'm not sure they are as reliable now as they used to be? I seem to recall seeing something in the news in the last week or so concerning B.A. I think it had something to do with their baggage handling practises. They seem to "lose and damage" a higher percentage of passenger luggage than other airlines.

I'll take that into consideration

Zoom Air - I've also flown with Zoom and found the service great! I'll be flying with them again this fall to England, and will be trying out both the economy as well as the premium fare. I'll post a note when I get back to offer some impressions on the difference in service, and whether premium is worth the extra cost. If you're able to adjust your schedule a bit, I found a flight on Zoom leaving Montreal Trudeau to London Gatwick on 25 September, at a cost of $279.00 (seems like a fantastic price!).

I've checked Zoom airlines after you recommended it. I must admit I hadn't really thought about them. I did, but what I'd heard about the airline wasn't the best, so I did not consider it, but after you mentionned you'd travelled with it and enjoyed it, I had a look at their site and at first it looks like a good choice but once all the taxes are added to the ticket fare, the ticket turns out to be around the same price as with the other airlines and I have to leave two days earlier than my planned date which would mean I have to spend 2 extra nights in London. Of course I wouldn't mind doing it, but moneywise I don't think I can really afford it right now unfortunatly. The UK taxes are very expensive. I've also checked into flying with them to Paris and then get a cheap flight to London, but it turns out to be a lot more complicated and much more expensive in the end.

2.) There are several good areas of London for lodgings, but I chose the Victoria Station neighborhood (Belgravia), mostly due to the fact that it's a fairly central location, has good proximity to the Tube stations and also the Coach station. There are some reasonably priced B&B-style Hotels in that area. What price range and facilities are you looking for?

I'll have a look at that area. Sounds like a nice place to stay in. I might also consider Hostels in which I can get a single room or maybe, in last resort, a four beds female dorm. I don't plan on spending much time into my hotel, so I don't really want to spend a fortune on it I'd rather spend on tours, museums and such


4.) Transportation & tickets - I believe the Oystercard comes in two different versions: the 7-day Oystercard and the Pay-As-You-Go Oystercard (which you can "load" with a variable amount of funds in £10 increments. There's a £3.00 one-time fee to cover the cost of the Card. The Oystercards can be used for the Tube, Buses and the Docklands Light Railway. The "general rule" seems to be that if you don't plan on riding public transit every day, then the PAYG Oystercard is the best value. For three to five consecutive days, a three day Travelcard as well as one day Travelcards is supposedly the best value.

Thanks, I'll have a look at this. I'm planning on walking as much as I can. I love walking, but I know I'll probably end up having to take the tube or a bus at some point

Finally, you indicated that you've been "reading guides". I'm assuming you're referring to Guide books? Which books have you been using?

Yes I meant guide books Well I have 2 little guides in my posession right now. I know there are some more better guides available out there and I plan on getting one, but right now what I have is : "London - Inside out", it's a little 64 pages pocket guide that comes with 2 pop-up maps, a map of the underground, a map of the buses line, a pen and a compass. I also have another little french Canadian guide "Top 10 - Londres" which lists the top 10 of London's museums, top 10 walks, top 10 gardens, top 10 entertainement shows, top 10 sites etc ...


I'm 55+ and also travelling "solo" these days. I'm also not much into the party scene (although I don't mind a pint of Guinness on occasion!). I'll be on my own in England, but will be joining a tour group in Ireland (not sure how well I will adapt to that???)

If I have had a friend along with me, I'd probably have hit a club or bar one night just to mingle with the locals, but as I'll most likely be alone (a friend of mine just told me she might be interested in joining me for a couple of days, but i'm not counting on that), I don't think I'll feel brave enough to hit one alone

Thank you again for your help

[mareeclo]

London is safe if you're smart and aware of your surroundings. That being said, try to avoid walking alone late at night. I believe tubes stop running just after midnight but I don't think you should have any problems with pickpocketing. If you catch someone trying to pickpocket you, just yell for help and you'll see a bunch of English rugby/football men running after the guy LOL.

lol Being rescuded by an English rugby/football man, hmmm sounds good, maybe i'll try it lol Just kidding. Like I said, I'm not really planning on walking alone at night, but in case it happens, I'll keep that in mind

For a good B&B, definitely go to the Hyde Park/Paddington/Kensington area. I would absolutely recommend Hyde Park Rooms. It's a 2 minute walk from Paddington train station/tube station (Paddington has a direct link to Heathrow Airport, if you're flying with Air Canada BTW). Not to mention, the B&B is a 5-10 minutes walk from Kensington Gardens/Hyde Park. Wonderful lady who runs it and she cooks up the best breakfast I've had at any B&B. The website is 1. www.hydeparkrooms.com

Thanks I will have a look at it.

Buy an Oyster card - based on the info you gave me, this should be the cheapest way. You'll be able to get a 3-pound refund when you are leaving London. This should be the most economical method for you.

Ok, I'll probably end up choosing the Pay-as-you-go Oystercard, this looks like the best bet.

Please don't hesitate to ask me anything - I know London like the back of my hand so you're very welcome to send me a private message or post a reply or new topic or whatever

Thanks I know I have more questions to ask, just don't know where to start. I'll try and get my thoughts together and then come back here and ask

Here's one though, what is the cheapest and fastest way to make my way to central London from Heathrow Airport ? And seeing I will have to catch my plane to Switzerland at Gatwick Airport, I need to ask the same for that ride ?

[Eagle]

mareecio, your best bet for travel from London to Gatwick is the Gatwick Express (train). The cost (one-way) is £14.90 and it's a 30-minute trip. I believe it leaves from Victoria Station (which is another reason I chose to stay in that area, as I'll be flying into Gatwick). I've never flown into Heathrow (and not planning to anytime soon!) so PONR would be best to advise on that.

For inexpensive, clean and safe accomodations in London in the various neighborhoods, I've found the Rick Steves Guidebooks are the best resource. I use them extensively for trip planning. You might be able to find them at your local Library or Bookstore? Look for England 2007 or London 2007. I can provide a few suggestions if you need them, but will need to know which area you decide to stay in.

I'm surprised that you've heard some "negative comments" about Zoom Airlines. I flew back from Paris to Vancouver last Fall, and found the service to be great. On that occasion, I paid extra for the Premium seating and it was wonderful (the "free" Okanagan Wines were a nice touch!). Premium seating also has extra leg room (referred to as "seat pitch" in airline terminology), but as it turned out the plane wasn't full so I didn't have anyone sitting beside me - I was able to really stretch out!

Regarding going to Bars or Clubs.....

I don't think I'll feel brave enough to hit one alone

I'm not sure what to suggest on that point? As I'm male, I suspect my experiences might be different? I don't plan on going to any Clubs, especially the "dodgy" establishments that have no inside door handles and large Bouncers, in the seedy parts of town. However, I will likely be going to a Pub or two, even if just for "Pub Grub" and a Guiness. I always enjoy chatting with the locals.

Cheers!

[pointofnoreturn]

Heathrow Airport to London:

• Cheapest: Use the Tube (Piccadilly Line) - should be 50-60 minutes and costs £4
  
• Fastest: Heathrow Express (goes to Paddington) - takes about 20 minutes but costs £14.50 one-way
  
• Coaches: National Express bus (goes to Victoria Station) takes about an hour depending on traffic and costs £4 one-way. There are restrictions on amount of luggage you have.

London to Gatwick Airport

• Cheapest: Take Southern Trains (£8.90) from Victoria Station - 30-35 minutes or First Capital Connect from Kings Cross/London Bridge/Farringdon (£8.90-upwards) but this takes longer (50 minutes or so) because it goes via East Croydon
  
• Fastest: Gatwick Express (only by approx. 5 minutes over Southern!) - around £15 one-way and takes 30 minutes from Victoria Station
  
• Coaches: National Express coach from London Victoria, takes 1-1/2 hours (more if there is traffic) and costs £6.60. Luggage restrictions are in place.
  

Regarding Gatwick, I advise you to take either Southern or FCC trains - it's so much cheaper and saves you guilt from the over-priced Gatwick Express. Granted, it may take you anywhere from 5 to 30 minutes longer but that's a tiny sacrifice. With Heathrow, I haven't tried taking public transportation out of the airport because I've always been picked up by car but if I had to pick an option, it'd be the tube cause I'm a frugal person by nature

By the way, you can purchase your Oyster card at Heathrow and top it with a certain amount of money for X days plus the cost of transportation from Heathrow to London since Heathrow is in Zone 6 and you'll likely go no further than Zones 1-2.

P.S. if you take the tube from Heathrow, chances are you'll have to change at another line if you chose to stay in Paddington or Victoria. The former: change at Gloucester Rd and the latter, it should be Green Park I believe for Victoria accomodations.

EDIT - Yes, double-checked my tube map and it's correct with regards to the changes but you just might change your mind last minute with regards to accomodations so make sure you pick up a mini tube map at the airport

[mareeclo]

Thank you pointofnoreturn I still haven't figured out where I'll be staying though I think I might have changed my mind about Hostels. I've been looking into them and I found some really nice ones. It's seems to be a cheaper solution and thought it might be a nice way to maybe meet people and who knows maybe find someone to visit the city with

[mareeclo]

Has any of you ever done the Hop-an-off city tour of London ? Is this a great way to see the city ? Is it worth it, or i'd be better off doing the whole tour by myself ? I was thinking about doing that the day after my arrival in London after a good night of sleep. I won't be in London for a long so I thought that would give me the opportunity to see most of London's top attractions in one day and go back to those that interested me the most on my own later on if I want to.

Also, looking at sites on things to do while in London, i found one offered a day trip out to visit Oxford, Windsor and Stonehenge in one day, would that be a bit much as I only have 3 days in London (I might be able to add one more day), or should I stick to London only and keep that day trip for a future UK trip ??

[freshsprout]

Mareeclo, you're going to have a BLAST in London. Egads, I'm tickled I can help on the "other side" now having gone through the backpacking experience...

<<I still haven't figured out where I'll be staying though I think I might have changed my mind about Hostels. I've been looking into them and I found some really nice ones. It's seems to be a cheaper solution and thought it might be a nice way to maybe meet people and who knows maybe find someone to visit the city with >>

I backpacked in London for 6 days and I stayed in hostels due to my tight budget - but it's pretty well worth it (as long as you find the right fit) and considering how much London hotels are in comparison. Granted, I'm sure you would be very comfy, more quiet and you would get more privacy in a B&B. But in a hostel, you have the opportunity to meet other backpackers and locales, even if you are a quiet or shy person. It just naturally happens - and chances are, the travelers will invite you to venture to the local pub or something. That's what happened to me.

Of course you'll be giving up some comforts like sharing the same bathroom, people coming in late (or leaving super early), possible snorers, sleeping on bunk beds and having to lock your stuff up... but it really isn't an inconvenience for the amount of money you will save. And most of the hostels have breakfast avail.

I recommend checking this website out:
www.hostelbookers.com/hostels/england/london/
But choose carefully what you think is suitable for you, look at the ratings and reviews. Some are party-type hostels, others are more quiet, and scope out the location. Many are on the "outskirts" of good neighborhoods or may be a ways from Central London.

I ended up staying 3 nights at Christopher's Inn - Orient Espresso, an all-woman's hostel near London Bridge (super convenient location with a cafe downstairs) and they had their lobby/restaurant/pub/club down the street where you can hang out. My 2nd hostel was an Astor Victoria's hostel near Kensington for a few nights. Astor Victoria is for the more serious but fun backpacker, they have a full kitchen, living area, movie night, etc. The Kensington area was a bit more crammed (and was a bit further from the tube), but I guess it didn't really matter since you're just there to sleep. The price is better if you are willing to share a room with more backpackers. All of the St. Christopher's Inns and Astor Hostels have pretty decent ratings. If you do the hostel route, be sure to visit Hyde Park tho as recommended. It is quite beautiful out of all the parks, IMO.

Honestly in London I felt more safe there than my home turf of Los Angeles and I'm only 4' tall. Obviously they don't allow guns, but pickpockets are well-known. I would just advise to plan your trip ahead - each morning, look at your map (especially tube map) and memorize where you will be heading and which lines you'll be taking. It will make you far less noticeable if you (appear to) know what you're doing (not to mention save you much time!!). Definitely get an Oystercard - I can't tell you how much easier it is to get through the Tube gates (and put it somewhere where you can access it easily). Put your valuables in one of those money pouches and use your daybag for your other stuff. Keep your daybag on your side or in front of you when you're amongst the crowds.

Regarding the tube... it's late or if you're alone - make sure you board a car with other passengers. This sort of applies to any train, anywhere really... nothing happened to me in London, but I was followed in Paris and that sort of sucked. If someone starts getting fishy with you, get up and walk somewhere where there are other "normal" looking civilians or just yell "Help!". Or if you're on a street, duck into a store, restaurant, whatever. It really isn't that dangerous in London, but treat it the same as if you were at home.

<<Has any of you ever done the Hop-an-off city tour of London ? Is this a great way to see the city ? Is it worth it, or i'd be better off doing the whole tour by myself ? I was thinking about doing that the day after my arrival in London after a good night of sleep. >>

I did exactly this on my first day in London after a loooong flight over. Unfortunately by the time I got out of Heathrow, into my hostel and out, it was already the afternoon and was quite rainy. But yes, this is a good avenue to see what you like, then you can go back and explore some more. I recommend the Big Bus Company - you can book your trip in advance w/ them online.

Oh. One more thing (sorry! lol) - if you can, try to e-book whatever you can prior to the trip. It makes it SOOOO much easier to avoid the queues and sometimes may be cheaper if you buy them earlier.

Anyway, I hope this does not overwhelm you.. it's good to know some precautions so you can have an enjoyable and memorable trip. London indeed is an exciting, historical, modern happening city. I'm sure you'll love it, as I did. Good luck!

Irene

[pointofnoreturn]

Ehhh..... hop-on, hop-off buses aren't my cup of tea. You could do that RIGHT AFTER you land in London to explore the city for a bit. But since you have 3 days and part of that is taken up by landing, going through customs, getting your bags, getting from airport to London, checking in, etc, etc.... I am not sure I would want to waste precious time by doing that.

What I really do is before I get to each city, I plan out what I want to see for each day (I know, I'm SO meticulous) and how to get from Point A to Point B so there are no freak-out moments!

For 3 days in London, I wouldn't do any daytrips. They are often costly and take up the entire day, leaving you little time to explore one of the greatest cities in the world. Use all your days in London entirely and you'll be grateful

P.S. I have heard positive things about St. Christopher's! I have a nice story to tell. I had just finished exploring Tate Modern (I only took an hour because I'd been there before and knew everything whereas my friend hadn't) and I was looking for an internet cafe to email my dad about the changes in my flight details while my friend was still at Tate. So I walked all over the London Bridge area trying to find a damn internet cafe and I came across a St. Christopher's but cannot remember which branch it was. They said I could use their computer and they let me use it for free and even gave me money for me to put in the coin dispenser. So nice of them!

[freshsprout]

That's nice! lol. I actually didn't think the hostel staff at any of the places I stayed at were that warm (maybe too used to American standards ) but I did enjoy St. Christopher's very much in general. I'm thinking you probably were at the Village because the other 2 were only the staying quarters..

My best memory at the pub was eating breakfast (no one in America ever eats breakfast in a pub, so first for me) and watching a Klaxons music video. Pretty sweet.