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Post by KimS on Mar 12, 2003 18:36:39 GMT -5
I am trying to be as economical as possible while traveling through Europe, that said, I am confused by the number of eurail passes available. THis is my loose itinerary:
London- 3days
Amsterdam-3
berlin-3
[prague -3]
vienna-2
venice-3
rome-4
florence-3
cinque terre- 3
milan-2
paris-3
Okay, now I am planning on buying plane tickets from london to Brussels, then take the train from there to Amsterdam. I am also planning on flying from MIlan to Paris, as this seems pretty cheap on Ryanair.
I'm thinking I should get one of the select passes, but i was wondering about the amount of travel days. I was going to get the 8 day one, but then I thought, what if I want to travel more than 8 days? And does the pass include day trips within a country, or does that count as a travel day? [like, if i want to go to Prague, would I take the train to the border, and that would count as one of my travel days?] I wonder if I am confusing you guys, cuz i am confusing myself. Any help would be appreciated!!
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Post by nitsansh on Mar 13, 2003 23:07:24 GMT -5
The question is... are you likely to stick with your plan, or you like to have the freedom to change it?
For a start, I would suggest to fly to Amsterdam... why would you fly to Brussels if you don't want to visit there?
If you have a flexi pass, any day you mark on the pass is a travel day, and it doesn't matter if you travel 1 minute or 29 hours... you can either mark a day or buy P2P tickets... if you make short, cheap journeys, you better NOT use a travel day and buy tickets, and it seems your itinerary has some of these days when you wonder if it's worth to use the pass...
It's no brainer that Amsterdam-Berlin will worth using a travel day, also Milan-Paris if you do that by rail, Vienna-Venice and probably Berlin-Germany/Czech border and Vienna-Rome...
the other journeys I doubt it... they won't cost more than 25$ each... the difference between 8-days 5-countries youth select pass and 6-days pass is 53$, and between 6-days and 5-days it's 27$... so it's a close call... for the convenience, and especially the freedom to change your plans, I suggest to get a more flexible pass if the margin isn't great...
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Post by stolenbus on Mar 13, 2003 23:23:32 GMT -5
On the topic of BIJ, do you know where i could find more info on that type of ticket? I'd never heard of it until I started reading these boards, but a google search for BIJ is incomprehensible.
Thanks!
Oops! My first post here and I fudge it up. This was supposed to be on another thread - sorry to throw this one off topic!
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Post by nitsansh on Mar 14, 2003 0:16:59 GMT -5
Any of the budget guide books will tell you about BIJ, unless its publisher is selling rail passes (I mean Rick Steves...). Travel agents outside Europe will NOT tell you because they don't sell them... Wasteels is the biggest agency that sells BIJ tickets. You should find info on their website. www.wasteels.com |
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monique
Senior Travel Member
Posts: 74
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Post by monique on Mar 14, 2003 7:01:20 GMT -5
A site I like to help determine the best way to minimize transportation costs: www.railsaver.com. Fill in your itinerary and see what it says. |
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Post by nitsansh on Mar 14, 2003 9:37:54 GMT -5
I found that fares on Railsaver are a bit under the real price, but they are the best I can find...
Bear in mind that the youth fares on Railsaver are calculated as if they were BIJ fares, but such fare does not exist for domestic journeys (inside one country), unless this is part of international ticket or you have a discount card (available in some countries, not all of them).
Also, the fares are for the shortest route on regular trains, excluding any supplements. This is done in order to compare it with what you pay with rail pass.
For example: If you travel between Roma and Firenze on the fast Eurostar train (not to be confused with the channel tunnel train of the same name), you'll pay 30 Euro including reservation, which is mandatory. The reservation fee, if you use a rail pass for this trip, is 8 Euro, which is the difference between the Eurostar fare and the inter-city fare. The Eurostar makes this 300KM trip in just over 1.5 hours, while the infrequent inter-city takes about twice that time. You get what you pay for... and you should be really broke to save the 8 Euro supplement on this case...
But on many other cases, the difference between the top-class trains and intercity trains isn't that great... between Brussels and Amsterdam the Thalys travels in about 2.5 hours, the Intercity in 3 hours... I wouldn't splurge on Thalys on this occasion...
A technical explanation... fast trains need specially-built fast tracks to travel at full speed... a typical fast train will travel 300KM/hour on fast tracks, but will "slow" to about 200KM/hour on regular tracks, a speed that modern "regular" trains can achieve as well. On regular tracks, the only difference between faster and slower trains are the # of stops they make.
The brand-names of fast trains, such as Eurostar (both the channel and Italy), TGV, ICE, Talgo sometimes travel part of the way on fast tracks, other part on regular tracks... if that matters to you, check the actual speed, not the name...
For example... the LGV (L is the initial for line in French) network in France extends till Avignon in the south, but you'll find TGV (T for train) going as far as Nice or Montpellier, or into Italy and Switzerland, but these are fast trains only part of the way. The Thalys travel on fast tracks only between Paris and Brussels, the lines extending further to Netherlands and Germany are regular lines on which trains travel not faster than 200KM/hour... the Eurostar from/to London travel at full speed only from the tunnel towards Brussels or Paris - the English leg is a "slow" track. BTW... when the channel tunnel fast link to London will be competed, the terminus will be St. Pancras instead of Waterloo.
I have gone way off topic in this explanation... sorry if that bored anyone...
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Post by KimS on Mar 14, 2003 17:30:32 GMT -5
Thanks so much for all the help so far. Instead of trying to fly from MIlan to PAris, I've decided to add two more train trips from Genova to Lyon, and from Lyon to Paris. I am planning on getting the 5 country Select pass with 8 travel days - does this sound like a good plan to you?
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Post by KimS on Mar 14, 2003 17:31:08 GMT -5
Sorry- I forgot to add that I am just going to cut out Milan all together.
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Post by nitsansh on Mar 14, 2003 20:17:52 GMT -5
I suppose that by Genova (Genoa?) you mean Cinque Terre... or are you making another stop at Genoa?
According to my calculation, now you have 9 rail journeys, so if you have 8-days pass, you should NOT use the pass on one of them and buy P2P ticket instead... the cheapest ticket should be one of these 3: Gmund (Czech/Austria border) to Vienna, Roma-Firenze, or Firenze-Cinque Terre. Presumably it would be easier to buy the ticket to Vienna, as you have to pay for the part in Czech Republic anyway.
So, what you got is 8-days selectpass youth for Benelux, Germany, Austria, Italy and France at 387$. The tickets Germany/Czech border - Prague - Vienna would cost about 40$. Seat reservations (mandatory on Eurostar Italy and TGV France) and supplements would accumulate to another 20$.
You might have to pay for another ticket, in case you take overnight train to Lyon you'll need a train to connect with the night train. I think you can board the night train Rome-Paris at Genoa or La Spezia.
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Post by nitsansh on Mar 14, 2003 21:05:46 GMT -5
I checked with Railsaver and got the following quotes: (US$)
Amsterdam-Berlin 78
Berlin-Prague 31
Prague-Vienna 21
Vienna-Venice 47
Venice-Rome 34
Rome-Firenze 20
Firenze-La-Spezia (Cinque Terre) 10
La-Spezia-Lyon 41
Lyon-Paris 43
The total is 326$, which is less than the rail pass...
If that's your itinerary, P2P tickets are the cheapest option.
But remember... these fares were calculated with youth discount... they don't apply to domestic travel, but OTOH, BIJ allows you to break the journey as many times as you want...
So you can buy one ticket Vienna-Roma and stop at Venezia and Firenze, and one ticket Roma-Paris with stops at Cinque Terre and Lyon. Also Berlin-Vienna can be one ticket with stop in Prague. You can add more stops as long as they are on the route between point A and point B.
Also, you can buy a discount rail+ferry ticket for London-Amsterdam.
I suggest that you visit a travel agency in London that sells BIJ (aka Eurotrain or Route 26 in UK). They might sell you tickets for the whole trip, but once you bought them, you can't change the route.
I quote the paragraph on BIJ in Let's Go Europe:
"For travellers under 26, BIJ tickets are great alternatives to rail passes. Available for international trips within Europe, travel within France, and most ferry services, they knock 20-40% off regular 2nd class fares. Issued for specific international route between 2 points, they must be used in the direction and order of the designated route and must be bought in Europe. However, tickets are good for 60 days after purchase and allow a number of stopovers along the normal direct route of the train journey"
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Post by KimS on Mar 15, 2003 18:14:01 GMT -5
;D Thanks so much for the information on the BIJ tickets! I went to railsaver and plugged in the long distance destinations you gave me (i.e. Berlin to Vienna, Vienna to Rome), and I came out with a final price of $351. So it seems cheaper to buy them all point to point in smaller increments. Can I just do this as I get into each city to maintain maximum flexibility, or do you think that wouold be too risky? I will be traveling from May 6 - June 10, which i know is starting to get into peak tourist season.
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Post by KimS on Mar 15, 2003 18:23:35 GMT -5
Also, do you think spending the extra money on the railpass would be worth it for the sake of saving time, (like not standing in line to buy tickets)?
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Post by nitsansh on Mar 16, 2003 3:31:17 GMT -5
Kim
Read my previous message thoroughly, please
You would be better with a rail pass if you want to have flexibility to change your route within the pre-determined countries.
If you buy BIJ, you don't have flexibility to change the route, but you have flexibility of time.
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