thoughts needed from you all please....

[LHR02]

I sent this message to Kim, our leader , this morning after replying to another new member...and have included her reply. For those of you who are 'regulars' and those of you new to this board what is your opinion? When you were new and just in the planning stages was it good to get a reality check, or did it indeed come across as a bunch of negativity? I think we all strive to offer the best advice we can based on each of our experiences but at what point does it seem we are just naysayers...or do we? Opinions......this is really starting to bother me. How can I let someone post that they are doing 12 countries in 2 weeks and not speak up and say that's just crazy.....hmmmmm.....I think I have too much thinking time on my hands these days! ;D

(my message to Kim)

...it just seems like we 'regulars' spend half of our time preaching the "you have too much planned" gospel to the new folks. Just did another today. And I almost feel badly, remember those feelings of I have to see it all. And sometimes wonder if we are in essence chasing folks away with 'negativity'? Thinking maybe some sort of 'disclaimer' if you will in pre-travel....a sticky maybe to the effect that it is our wish to help each traveler have the best trip possible and those of us who have been before know how easy it is to fall into the 'see everything' mentality and we don't mean to discourage or be negative....just trying to help them arrange the best possible trip for the time they have.

Does this make sense? Or am I just being oversensitive this morning.




(and Kim's reply to me)

I know, I've thought of that as well but then I think - if you ask, you can only expect to get an honest answer,you know?

Cause god knows we are hardly at 10 countries in 1 week kind of board! ;D

I say if you ask if it can be done and people say no, then you can either decide to listen to what they say or just give it a shot.

[jennifer]

I don't remember you guys telling me to change my itinerary much, but I do remember you though I had a lot of train travels. I knew I could and wanted to do it, so I just explained. It work out great. I remember though that I listened to all you said as advice and wasn't cross when it was negative. I think when you ask for advice, you have to expect people to give it to you in the best way to help, even if that means telling you you've gone overboard on the planning.

I would rather someone tell me than arrive there and see all my plans crumble, you always wish you could see the world in 10 days, it's normal! but then experienced people (like I know now) know that it's too much!

[Jordo]

I agree with jen 100% I'd rather you guys tell me my plans really wont work out here at home a few months away to change it, rather then let me figure it out myself in another country,not knowing the language and only having so much money and watch my hopes crumble! Can't have regrets abouting being truthful and trying to help the best you can!

[jennifer]

yup, you ask for it, you get it!

[Michelle]

I totally agree! All the advice given here on the boards by the "seasoned" travellers is great! I want nothing less than the honest opinion of people who have travelled before me, in order to get the most out of my trip! It would suck to save a whole bunch of money, only to realize what you thought would be the perfect trip, now is a complete disaster just because you weren't warned beforehand! I find in everyday life, sometimes it is hard to hear the truth about things, but it always works out in the end!

So in my opinion, if you ask for it, get ready to hear it! And don't feel shot down when you realize your high hopes for your trip can't become reality... So let the trip planning conitinue and the keep the advice flowing!!!

[WillTravel]

A lot of us have already made the mistake of cramming too much in. Although in my case, it wasn't done in Europe, so at least I didn't lose a lot of time and money .

On several different forums, I often see similar posts with really crammed itineraries and they usually get similar answers as here.

In a few cases, crammed itineraries can work out well, and that's why the prospective traveler can get input from a bunch of sources and then decide. Here are a few cases:
1) if you are on an organized tour and someone else is handling all the logistics of getting you from place to place,
2) you have a really high budget (e.g. your limo driver and private jet will take you everywhere , or
3) are just really energetic and restless and do not mind lots of night trains and overnights in airports on the outskirts.

On one forum I go to, people do seriously go to Paris or Hong Kong or wherever for a day or less (they call it a mileage run). And they seem happy with it . But the prospective traveler who posts here can figure out what perspective all the other posters are coming from, to determine if it's suitable for him or her.

[rookie]

I crammed 7 countries into 1 month last spring, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

London
Paris
Bruges
Amsterdam
Rhine Valley
Munich
Interlaken/Gimmelwald
Venice
Florence
Rome
Cinque Terre

I know it seems like I spent a lot of time on the train, but I found the train a new experience in itself, and met heaps of locals that way. It was my first ever Europe trip and I wanted to hit every single place on that list. I would hate to miss out on Venice because it's a place that's been etched in my mind since I was a kid. But if I spent a week in London and Paris each, then I wouldn't have the time for Venice. When you've never been to Europe, you truly want to see everything.

I'm going back to Europe real soon, but this time to live. I want to settle down and experience everyday life in a European city. However, this thought never entered my mind until I came back from my first trip. I think my list above is one that every first-time traveller wants to do, as it allows you to see the very best of Europe. So while seasoned travellers like to say "You need to give Amsterdam at least 5 days minimum," I would tell a first timer "If you want to see it all, give Amsterdam 2 days and move on. If you really love the place, then you don't need me tell you to stay longer."

I think people my have told me to shave a couple places off that list, or to extend my trip, but being the stubborn rookie that I was, I just couldn't. I sincerely just couldn't. ;D

[WillTravel]

rookie, your experience shows why everyone's perspective is needed!

I think one thing that influences me to take a slower itinerary is that I have to return back to work less than 12 hours after the plane lands.

So I don't have any time to recuperate if I get exhausted on my trip.

[me]

mea culpa, Ginger. should i hold my tounge? if people ask my thoughts, shouldn't i tell him/her what i think?

idon'tknow, maybe it's wrong to think that i'm being asked. i should just let others make the comments.

but, i tend to agree with you, most people try to cram too much into that first trip. it's quite common.

- d

[LHR02]

David....
This concerned me:

>>>>>>mea culpa, Ginger. should i hold my tounge? if people ask my thoughts, shouldn't i tell him/her what i think?

idon'tknow, maybe it's wrong to think that i'm being asked. i should just let others make the comments.
>>>>>>

Did you think I was addressing my post to 'you' in some way? Nothing could be more wrong! I had just replied to another new guest who was trying to do everything in a month and just was feeling almost bad at telling her the route she had laid out for a month I had done as well....in 4 1/2. And thinking....sheesh...how many times do we write this stuff, about having too much planned.

And NO...you should not just 'let others make the comments'!! You are a regular, a valuable member of this board and I enjoy your posts, as do others. If you somehow interpreted my remarks as being directed at you I apologize most sincerely. That was never the case at all...would it 'hurt your feelings' if I said your name never crossed my mind when I wrote that? ;D ;D

ging

[jennifer]

Rookie, you are so right! I'm the kind of traveller that has heeps of plans, then once I'm there, I still feel free to modifiy them if I like the city.

Once you travel a bit, then you realize you've can go on the slow lane and still see heeps!

I think the GFO forum is the best place, you get an opinion from about every type of traveller and then you can take it in and decide what type you are and decide if you want to follow the pattern or not!

[BigRay]

Hi Ging,

I have mixed feelings on this topic. My first backpacking trip in Europe was a ten week stint. At the time, it was the longest "vacation" I had ever taken. I felt that in ten weeks I could do see whatever I wanted to see and, in hindsight, probably bit off more than I could chew. But we were pretty disciplined and kept moving as best we could, taking night trains to avoid hostels, and sometimes arriving in the morning, wandering all day, then taking another night train to the next destination. This happened more than once, and my first visits to Berlin, Vienna, Innsbruck and a few other places were 12-16 hour visits. Clearly I didn't see everything.

But I wouldn't change a thing.

I think what's often overlooked about the joy of travelling is the journey itself. I had a truly marvellous time, even though I didn't get to every attraction in the places I visited. How could I not? I was young(er), carefree, and with the best of friends in the wonderful place that is Europe. In some ways, the destination was secondary. The complete sense of freedom and waking up in a new place in the morning was exhilerating.

Now that I am older, frequently travel alone, and have had the luxury of making several trips to Europe and now live in Prague, I plan my trips slower and thoroughly enjoy extended stays in small towns to get a better feeling of places, meet people, etc. I also don't have the energy I had ten years ago.

But this is a luxury some people don't have. As much as I loved travelling even before my first backpacking trip, it took me over five years to make it back to Europe a second time. Even longer before I could take an extended trip that included trains and multiple destinations. Some people I backpacked with that first time ten years ago still have not made it back to Europe, let alone go on an extended backpacking trip. But at least they can say they walked through the streets of Berlin, Vienna, etc. at least once.

With this view, it's hard for me to give me advice about how many days someone needs in a particular place, so I often refrain. It's not that I don't have an opinion, but rather, I don't know how compatible my opinion is with someone else's priority for their vacation. If they want to be ambitious, so be it. I think it can be just as worthwhile as being more methodical.

Just my .02 Kc ;D
Ray

[me]

not to worry, Ging. i am not the type to think that things are always directed just at me. just that i'm one who makes the kind of replies to which you refer.

but, you didn't think of me at all?!?

dustoffmom said:

David....
This concerned me:

>>>>>>mea culpa, Ginger. should i hold my tounge? if people ask my thoughts, shouldn't i tell him/her what i think?

idon'tknow, maybe it's wrong to think that i'm being asked. i should just let others make the comments.
>>>>>>

Did you think I was addressing my post to 'you' in some way? Nothing could be more wrong! I had just replied to another new guest who was trying to do everything in a month and just was feeling almost bad at telling her the route she had laid out for a month I had done as well....in 4 1/2. And thinking....sheesh...how many times do we write this stuff, about having too much planned.

And NO...you should not just 'let others make the comments'!! You are a regular, a valuable member of this board and I enjoy your posts, as do others. If you somehow interpreted my remarks as being directed at you I apologize most sincerely. That was never the case at all...would it 'hurt your feelings' if I said your name never crossed my mind when I wrote that? ;D ;D

ging

[LHR02]

>>>>but, you didn't think of me at all <<<<<<


Oh, I think of you regularly and with great affection dear David ;D, just not while I was penning that particular post!

bwahahahah!!

[jennifer]

haahha!