credit card help!

[Jules80]

So I was talking to my parents and apparently my mother (who travels constantly for work) had trouble in geneva a few weeks ago using her north american credit cards there because she did not have a PIN. Is it possible to get one for our NA cards to use over there? any suggestions? I don't want to get stuck when i'm there!
Jules

[dougj]

you only need a pin if you're using the cc at an atm to withdraw cash. I had no trouble using mine at restaurants, hostels, etc.

[MuvverRussia]

In the UK (as in other parts of Europe) it's changed fairly recently. More and more places now require you to authorise transactions with a pin, rather than with a signature. Pins are more secure and the new chip based (rather than magnetic strip) cards are a lot harder to clone than before.

If your bank will issue you a credit card pin (I'm not sure about NA banks, but this has been standard practice in the UK for quite a while) then it's worth having.

[Jules80]

so its done - i have a credit card pin! its 5 digits but my bank assures me it will work in europe without a problem. apparently its coded in the card and not the machines.

[dougj]

weird, must be really recent then...I used my card extensively in london and wasn't asked once to do that...that was last october.

muvverrussia said:

In the UK (as in other parts of Europe) it's changed fairly recently. More and more places now require you to authorise transactions with a pin, rather than with a signature. Pins are more secure and the new chip based (rather than magnetic strip) cards are a lot harder to clone than before.

If your bank will issue you a credit card pin (I'm not sure about NA banks, but this has been standard practice in the UK for quite a while) then it's worth having.

[Jules80]

i had no problems in the uk at christmas either, but my cousins all have pins on their cards. if i don't ahve to use it fine, but at least i have it in case.
Jules

[MuvverRussia]

It's been brought in fairly recently (slowly from around last November, most places are exclusively chip and pin now though). The website for it is www.chipandpin.co.uk btw.

I've no idea about 5 digit pins though. Personally I'd use a 4 digit pin just to be on the safe side - you can normally change pins at most ATMs.

[Jules80]

at the bank we tried entering a 4 digit pin and it wouldn't accept it cause the cards are coded only to accept 5 digit pins. apprently the machines in europe will randomly verify only 4 or the 5 digits to ensure that they match. so i'll keep my fingers crossed that it works thanks for all your help!
Jules

[Eagle]

I think my credit cards have PIN's, but I don't often use them. The "Chip & PIN" program sounds similar to the "Verified by Visa" program?

Wonder how long it will be before we have "chip style" credit cards here in North America. As usual, the Europeans and the U.K. are way ahead of us with technology.

Jules80, thanks for the Post. That's good info, and something I'll check before I head over to Europe.

[MuvverRussia]

Isn't verified by visa only for participating online stores though? It looks similar to MC's SecureCode.

Instead Chip and Pin is for use in high street shops instead of signing. At the pos there's a small, shielded key pad where you enter your 4 digit pin.

[Eagle]

Muvver, thanks for the clarification. Somehow I missed that in your first post. It sounds like the C & P system makes credit cards "behave" somewhat like debit cards. Hopefully people will shield their PIN while they're entering the number into the POS terminal.

The "chip" system will probably be a big help in eliminating fraud, as even if someone were to put a micro camera above the POS terminal (in order to see the PIN number being entered), it will be exceedingly difficult for them to duplicate the information contained in the chip.

However, I wonder if the chip will be similar to RFID and possibly "polled" by someone nearby with a reader in their briefcase? It keeps me busy trying to keep up with technology!!!

[MuvverRussia]

Micro cameras are more of a problem on ATMs rather than at POS terminals. That said it could be an issue. I use my wallet to shield the keypad regardless.

The chips themselves are like the ones on a SIM card. They aren't radio based, instead they rely on an electrical connection between the chip and the reader. It's a lot more secure than magnetic strips, although how long they remain secure for is debatable.

[Eagle]

Muvver, thanks for the clarification. Even though the C & P cards don't use RFID tags, I suspect there is still the possibility of abuse using the same method currently used with magnetic stripe cards.

The most common method involves an unscrupulous store employee who has a duplicate reader under the counter (or wherever). When the customer is distracted, their card is swiped twice. The first swipe (in the legitimate reader) allows the transaction to proceed, while the second swipe (in the illegal reader) captures the information on the card so that a duplicate card can be created later on using a PC and other readily available gear.

Perhaps there is some feature in the C & P cards to prevent this? It's always a struggle to keep ahead of the sleazy b@st@rds that are victimizing honest people. This topic is kind of "fresh" in my mind, as there was an item on TV today from a news conference held by the Vancouver Police regarding exactly this type of crime. Apparently, Internet and Credit Card fraud are becoming "the next wave" of crime, and the authorities are having a difficult time keeping up with it. The Police indicated that it's not hard to buy the card readers and other gear, as it's readily available off the Internet. One has to wonder why the Banks aren't insisting on tighter controls on the availability of this sort of thing?

Cheers!!!