Calling Eagle

[auntiejo]

Hi there! I have been reading through these posts for awhile... well, weeks to be honest, and I am still not certain on what I want to buy. So, I decided to post some questions to you in hope that you might be able to help.

I went to look at cameras the other day and had a look at the Canon IS something... the one you recommended in other posts - and it was a little big for me... plus the sales guy really wasn't cool so I couldn't ask him any questions. I think I would like something a bit smaller, and the zoom didn't take "clear" photos... they let me try it, and when I zoomed, it was cloudy.

Anyway, what am I looking for here? Higher pixels? Zoom? Bigger screen? I have no idea what to be looking for and I am a bit confused. Also, is what the picture looks like on the screen going to be what it looks like on a computer or on an actual picture... how can I tell?

I now leave in less than 2 weeks and I am bit nervous - I have to get shopping!!

Thank you in advance for the super in depth msg that is sure to come my way... I am just confused and didn't know who to turn to.

Joanne

[Eagle]

Auntiejo, it's difficult to recommend a Camera for another person, as everyone's needs and preferences are different. However, I'll do my best to provide you with some information that will help you to decide on a Camera. Unfortunately, with only two weeks to go there's a bit of "time pressure" to deal with as well. Ideally, it's best to buy a new Camera a month or so before leaving, so that one has an opportunity to become familiar with it. Also, if any "defects" appear it's best these happen at home rather than while away in some foreign land.

It would help if you could provide some details on what type of Camera you have in mind? Anything with 5 or 6 MP or above will be more than adequate, but more importantly what size and "form factor" of Camera are you most comfortable with, what degree of optical zoom do you want, do you have any brand preferences and finally do you prefer to just "point & shoot" or do you want some degree of manual controls? One other factor that should be considered is whether you plan to enlarge or crop images, or just print 4" x 6" prints most of the time? I'm most familiar with Canon products, so will focus on those especially given the short time frame (not much time to research other brands).

The Canon S2-IS that I mentioned in previous posts has now been replaced by the newer S3-IS, but it looks like the size is very close. If this is too big for your preferences, I'll suggest a few smaller models. There are LOTS of new models out this week, due to the PMA show being held in Orlando at the moment. Some of the new models look great, but unfortunately there's often a bit of a delay until these actually appear on store shelves. BTW, What Camera stores do you have available in your area?

Keep in mind that when you buy the Camera, you also need to budget for some accessories. You will need at least one (and preferably two) spare Batteries, at least two Memory Cards (as many of the new Cameras are 6-8 MP, it would probably be prudent to buy at least 512 MB or perhaps 1 GB memory cards-your choice?) and finally a good quality Case (I use LowePro) to protect the Camera. All Canon models that I've seen so far are equipped with a "world charger" so that won't be a problem while you're travelling, but you will need Plug Adaptors.

I'm sure you've read some of the previous Posts with regard to travelling with a digital Camera (burning CD's at local photo shops when the memory cards become full is probably the easiest solution).

Anyway, have to head out to Subway to grab dinner right now. I'll check later to watch for your reply.

Cheers!!!

[auntiejo]

Ok, that's just it - I DON'T KNOW WHAT MY PREFERENCES ARE... I don't think I have any! I was reading what the cameras said about pixels, and zooms, etc... all I "think" I know is that the more pixels the better the quality of picture... the more dots? Anyhow, zoom is cool, but I'm not overly picky! I'm sure that point and shoot is my choice as opposed to manual controls. The other stuff I have read about.. batteries, memory cards, adaptors, etc - you are right - from your other posts. Price is a factor, but not a huge factor. I like to take pictures, not sure how to do so properly... so spending a bit of extra $$ on a good camera is not a bad thing... I figure will enhance the pictures I hope to have of my riding an elephant in India.

Let me know what you think... I'm in Canada... not sure where to shop!

Joanne

[auntiejo]

Tony,

Wow... I wouldn't have even thought of these things before... ok, probably most pictures will just be printed in 4x6, but maybe if I really like a few I might want to blow them up - I never thought of it before. Hmmm.

No lens to change for sure - Oh my... no "point and shoot" definately. And the smaller the better - nothing too bulky!

Quality - definately what I am looking for. If I'm going to spend $500 Cdn on a camera and I could pay $600 for double the quality, than I would. My problem is that I could spend $600 for a worse camera and never know the difference. I have NO CLUE.

I want to take nice pictures and pay a fair price. I don't want a high end camera, I want a middle of the road camera that will think for me, take nice pictures and not be a piece of crap!

Yes, I am an auntie over and over again... but I have no brothers or sisters. My friends started having kids awhile ago and I became 'Auntie Jo'.... when this baby-boom happened I started sewing blankets for the little tikes... people started asking if I could make more to give as gifts... and poof... I started a baby blanket business and my company was Auntie Jo Creations. I don't do it anymore - just got bored of it - but I still make them here or there for friends and family. The name just "took" - Auntie Jo... the end of my phone number is even NTJO. I also LOVE children, unfortunately don't have any myself, but we'll see what the future holds. For now, I am focused on this trip and what happens in the next few months is up to the universe!

Thank you for your help!
Jo

[Eagle]

Auntiejo, again, it's difficult to recommend a Camera for someone else, but I'll try and provide a few thoughts on some of the Canon models so that you can have a look at these at photo shops in your area. I'm not too familiar with the Camera shops in your part of the world, but Future Shop outlets are one place you could look. I would have suggested London Drugs, as they have fairly knowledgeable staff and a good selection but unfortunately they don't have any stores east of Winnipeg. There's an excellent store here in the Okanagan called Photography West (1-800-663-3563) that specializes in both Canon and Nikon, and the staff there are outstanding (they're also excellent sales people, according to my last credit card statement!). However, that isn't much help to you at the moment.

Here is a brief summary of some of the models you can check out:

> Canon S-80: this is an updated model of the earlier S50 / 60 / 70 models, all of which have a slightly larger "form factor" than many of the typical "point & shoot" models, so it's not really pocket sized. It has 3.6x optical zoom (which is slightly better than most), a lens which provides some wide angle capabillity (better for "travel" purposes) and a full range of auto and manual controls. It has the sliding "lens door" which some people like and others don't. Canon deleted the ability to shoot RAW on this model, however this isn't too much of a concern with most people (those that are shooting RAW or TIFF probably have a dSLR anyway). I've never used the RAW feature on my S-50, as it produces much larger file sizes (and therefore fewer images will fit on each memory card). Still, it's nice to have "just in case". The S-80 received the coveted "Highly Recommended" rating on dpreview.

> Canon A-620: this Camera is from the more economical "A" series and has a 4x optical zoom, which again is slightly better than most. It is a bit larger than the S-80, but smaller than the S2-IS you were looking at. The ergonomics appear to be well designed, as I've always felt these models were easy to hold whenever I've tried them in the stores. I believe it has the "vari-angle" LCD which is a nice feature in to have in some situations. These models use "AA" batteries (Ni-MH rechargeables recommended) rather than the Li-Ion batteries as used in most of the Canon line. I'm not sure if a Charger is supplied with these, but if a separate Charger is needed, you would have to make sure that it was a "world" model. All of the "A" series seem to have an excellent range of both auto and manual controls.

> Canon SD-550: this is one of the models from the ultra compact Ixus line and has the 3x optical zoom that is typical of the small P & S Cameras. Many people find the small size very beneficial, as these models are so easy to carry in pockets; however I find them a bit difficult to hold. You'll have to decide if this size feels right for you? These models usually only have a very limited range of manual controls, so they're more "P & S" models. I've spoken with a few "professional" Photographers, and some of them carry the small models such as the SD-550 when they're just going out for the evening or whatever, as they're so easy to carry compared to the usual gear they haul around. A small "easy to carry" Camera is more likely to be on hand when it's needed!

Although I really like the Canon line, I did buy a Sony DSC-W5 (DSC-W7 is similar) for my Son about a month ago, as it received some excellent reviews. These seem to be a well made Camera with a good design, including capability for extra lens extenders, etc., excellent large LCD and fast start-up time. However, I found the menu system to be a bit confusing, and it would take a Rocket Scientist to figure out some of the features IMO. I find the menu system on the Canon models so much easier to understand. Also, buying a Sony means using those goofy Memory Sticks (which are among the most expensive format), as opposed to the less expensive Compact Flash or Secure Digital. Sony obviously hasn't learned anything from their Beta experience (a situation that might occur again soon with respect to the new Blue-Ray vs. High-Def DVD competition!).

If you buy a model that has a 7-8 MP Sensor, this should be perfectly adequate for enlargements or cropping, should you decide to do this with some photos. This resolution should also produce excellent images in the 4" x 6" size. As far as the zoom range, I found on my last trip to the U.K. with my S-50 that the 3x zoom is a bit limited at times, so that's why I'll be taking a dSLR on my next trip. However, most of the P & S Cameras only have 3x optical zoom so the only way to overcome this is with either a dSLR and interchangeable lenses, or one of the "monster zoom" models such as the S2-IS. Finally, many of the newer models have a 2" or 2.5" LCD, which is a nice feature to have!!!

Some interesting new models were introduced at the PMA show in the past week, such as the A-700 and SD-700 IS (which has an image stabilized lens!), but unfortunately these probably won't be on store shelves until April. While I'm sure there are also good Cameras from other manufacturers, such as the Nikon models that Tony mentioned, I'm not as familiar with the others so it's difficult to comment on them. Given the "time pressure" of your situation, I wanted to provide you with a few things to think about ASAP.

One final point to mention that doesn't seem to show up in reviews too often, is the matter of the optical viewfinder. IMHO it's extremely important to have a Camera which has an optical viewfinder. Unfortunately, it seems some manufacturers these days have started to delete this from their designs, leaving only the LCD to use when taking photos. I've found that especially in bright, sunny conditions it's very difficult to see the LCD, regardless of how well this usually performs under "inside" conditions. Even though the optical viewfinder might only provide about 85%-90% accuracy in terms of the field of view it's still a very beneficial feature to have.

Regarding the Camera models I've listed above, be sure to check the reviews and forum comments at www.dpreview.com or www.steves-digicams.com to see what the "experts" think about these models. I often go directly to the "conclusion" section at dpreview to get a quick summary of the "pros & cons" of a particular Camera.

Hopefully you can find a Camera that feels "right" for you within the next few days, so that you can become somewhat familiar with it before you leave on your trip (there IS a bit of a learning curve with digital Cameras!). It might be a good idea to pack the Manual along on your trip (the manuals aren't usually too large or heavy)?

Possibly I'll think of a few more comments and will add to this thread if I think of anything. However, it's almost 01:30 (am!) and I'm starting to see two monitors in front of me, so that's all for tonight!

Have fun shopping for a Camera!

[Jules80]

Hey Auntie Jo!

while i am no camera expert and haven't researched it years... mine is three years old and was bought in japan! i do have nikon coolpix and i love it! if i were to buy another point and shoot it would be a nikon.

In terms of shopping in Toronto, I would suggest going to black's or another photography shop. maybe not to buy there, but at least to get information off the sales people and see which camera you like. my experience with future shop is that they are all a bunch of idiots who don't really know much about their products (my appologies to anyone on the board that works there but that has been my experience).

Jules

[Eagle]

Jules & Tony, I only suggested Future Shop as I've never been to "central Canada" so have no idea what Camera stores are available in that area? In my experience with FS outlets here in the west, I've found that some of the sales people are fairly knowledgeable, and some don't have a clue at all regarding the products they're selling; unfortunately this is not limited to FS, the same conditions exist at other electronics retailers. Some of the "misinformation I've been subjected to when shopping for PDA's and Cell Phones really ticks me off!!! Among the worst offenders are the CDMA Cell Phone sales people (won't mention any names here!) who continually give customers the terribly outdated line that "Rogers has terrible coverage". I've used cell phones on both networks since 1992, and in my experience this is quite simply a load of crap!

From what I gather in talking to FS staff, they do get some degree of training but this is somewhat "general" in nature and doesn't go too much into detail (just enough info to sell the product). Most of the staff seem to specialize in certain product lines, as it would be very difficult to become an expert on their entire product line. In all fairness though, given the rapidly changing product lines and technology innovations, even I have a difficult time keeping up with it!

I certainly agree if there's a Black's outlet in that area, that would be a perfect place to shop for a Camera. As they specialize in Cameras and related products, I'm sure the staff will be much better educated on the products than a "big box" store. Therefore they will be better able to provide good information for Auntiejo to make an educated decision on the best Camera for her needs.

Given the time factor with Auntiejo's purchase, they will most likely also have a good range of accessories on hand, so it will be a "one stop shopping" experience. That was one point that I found really helpful when I bought my dSLR -- my very unique choice of accessories, lenses, filters, cases and batteries wasn't a problem for the store -- they had the whole works "in stock" and gave me exactly what I wanted.

Cheers!!!

[auntiejo]

Ok, I have to sit down and print out all this stuff and figure out what it all means. Argh! I do have a blacks store I can go to... phew! We'll see how it goes!

Thank you all so much for all of your thoughts and help! I'll keep you "posted".

Jo

[auntiejo]

Checked my email and ironically got an email from Black's - it turns out the Canon SD450 is on sale - $150 cdn off ($125 US) - bringing it down to about $250 US... I looked at dpreview... but really, it's all Greek to me.

I know it's hard to tell someone what to buy... I JUST HAVE NO CLUE! Really, ask me about a yoga posture.. I'm there... ask me about the stock market - I got it... but you start talking pixels, and optical zooms and all that other stuff, which is great, I appreciate it all, but I just don't understand it.

So, good buy for a camera-ignorant gal like me?

Jo

[Eagle]

Auntiejo, your best bet might be to make a short list of Cameras that you might be interested in, and then pay a visit to your local Black's store and talk to the (hopefully) knowledgeable sales people. You might find that speaking with someone in person helps to clear things up somewhat, and help you to find the best Camera for your needs.

I'm sure the SD-450 would be a good Camera, if you want a Camera in that size and form factor (ie: VERY small!). The pros & cons are well described at www.dpreview.com/reviews/canonsd450/page13.asp. As with most Cameras in this class, it has 3x optical zoom, which is equivalent to about 35-105 mm in 35mm terms. For travel purposes you might find that a bit "limiting"? I noticed that Black's has the Sony DSC-W7 priced the same as the SD-450; both Cameras received the "Recommended" rating at dpreview. Again, I found the menu system of the Sony a bit confusing; I find the Canon menus much more straightforward! Also, my Son's DSC-W5 went into "brain lock" one night and to be "reset" (most likely due to a static zap), so I'm not totally impressed with Sony models.

When at the store, also have a look at the S-80 if you don't mind a slightly larger Camera, however I doubt you'll find any "sale" prices on that model. However, they might still have an S-70 available as it's very similar and might be priced very attractively? The summary for the S-70 is very favourable - www.dpreview.com/reviews/canons70/page9.asp - it received the "Highly Recommended" rating!

Also have a look at the A-620 which is again slightly larger, but it received the highest rating at dpreview - check www.dpreview.com/reviews/canona620/page14.asp. This also has a slightly longer zoom range than the other models (4x optical or 35-140mm in 35mm terms), which might be beneficial in some situations, and also the "vari-angle" display.

NONE of the Cameras I've listed, or indeed any of the Cameras on the market are perfect! They always seem to have "issues" in one way or another - poor focusing, "purple fringing", etc. Some of these issues are more serious than others, which is the "key" to finding an acceptable Camera.

You'll have to decide which combination of features, ratings and size fits your preferences the best. The folks at Black's (or other photo stores in your area) might help you to get this sorted. A few other things to watch for in addition to having an optical viewfinder, is the performance of the Camera in low light conditions (some models have an AF light) and the visibility of the LCD in bright conditions.

One final point...... Whichever Camera you buy, it's probably a good idea to think about a screen protector for the LCD display. Some of these displays use very soft plastic so they scratch very easily. For travel purposes some sort of lens cleaners would be good too. Also, don't forget to check that the Battery Charger supplied with the Camera is a "world model".

Again, Good Luck and hope you find a Camera soon!

[Nicstar]

hhmmmmmm this thread has been good for me.....my camera smashed at work a few months ago, and dad is going to get me a new one for my birthday and asked me to start looking. Knowing what I didn't like about my last camera, and reading this thread has given me food for thought.

Eagle, you mentioned the Sony...my camera was a Sony as is my dad's, my best friends, and the work camera (all just later versions of the same model, or the same model but higher mega pixels)...don't ask me what model, I don't pay attention to those things after I've got it. My question to you, having the knowledge and experience of digital cameras, and having compared brands somewhat, do you find the Sony to be "slower" in taking hte pic than other brands?

I don't know what the technical term would be! But you know, when you go to take a photo, and theres that delay between when you press the button and when the photo is actually taken? I've found our Sony's to be ridiculously slow- when we try to take photos of the children actively involved in something at work, by the time the photo has actually taken its at least 2 seconds after and we miss the important things like how the child held the pencil, which part of hte book they were pointing to etc etc.... Are other brand cameras better in this department, or is that just universal across all digital cameras?

If its universal I'm going to stick with a Sony similar model, since I can use all my memory sticks still, however, if another brand is better in this department, I shall be switching and giving my memory sticks to my dad! Having read this thread, I think the cameras you mention are along the lines are what I may be interested in- they'd be good for work, good for travel, and good for play!

CHEERS
Nic

P.S. Gosh its been ages since I have been here... life has just been too hectic.....but am now planning a trip with mum if I decide to stay at my current job, so I may be back around here more often.....I hope!

[Nicstar]

^^sweet, thanks.....thats the kind of info I am after, cos I am completely camera illiterate! may change the cameras I investigate but thats perfectly fine with me!

[Eagle]

NICSTAR! Long time no see! I've been wondering about your abscence from the Boards? I hope the fact that "life has been hectic" is a good thing?

Regarding the delay you've experienced when taking photos, I'm assuming you're referring to "shutter lag". This was quite common with some of the earlier digital Cameras, but has been less of a problem with newer models. What "vintage" was the Camera you were using? In many cases, shutter lag can be minimized by depressing the button halfway so that focusing and exposure calculations are completed first; when the button is depressed all the way, there's usually much less of delay in actually taking the photo.

As far as whether you should "switch brands" and buy a different brand of Camera, you'll probably find the answer to that when you start visiting Camera shops. Since you're shopping for a Camera anyway, it's a good idea to look at a variety of models to get some idea which might be "right" for you. I imagine your capabilities have improved since you bought your last Camera, so perhaps you want a model with improved capabilities and control?

You'll know from reading my Posts that I tend to favour Canon models over others. I started using Canon back in the '70s and have always liked the "feel" and design of these, so this is pretty much just a matter of personal preference. However, I also have a Pentax P&S (film) Camera and bought a Sony DSC-W5 for my Son a few months ago. The Sony is well built and seems to have very little (if any) shutter lag, however I wasn't impressed when the stupid thing went into "brain lock" due to a static zap. It had some good design features not included with many other Cameras such as accessory lens extenders, wide angle adapters, etc. (although as with any Sony products, I don't imagine these are inexpensive!).

The other thing that really bugs me about Sony is their insistence in using those goofy Memory Sticks, which are (in some cases) substiantially more expensive than other formats! Just to confuse things, they have to add several different versions of these - original Memory Sticks, Memory Stick Pro, etc. As I mentioned in a previous post, they obviously haven't learned anything from their experience with Beta VCR's! I have a sense of "deja vu" with respect to this and the new Hi-Def DVD standards, as Sony can't reach an agreement with the other "players" with regard to a universal standard for these. Consequently, they're going to let the market decide -- in other words, consumers will pay!!! This sort of nonsense gives me a bit of a "negative perception" of Sony, although I have been looking at their new SXRD TV's (no way I can afford one though - as usual, they're priced way too high for the average person). Sorry for the rant, I know it's a bit "off topic".

You'll have to decide whether you want to stay with the same type and brand of Camera (I don't remember what model you were using?) or move to a more advanced P&S or perhaps a "monster zoom". As you've stated that you are "camera illiterate", I'm assuming you might still want just a basic P&S with limited manual controls, something you can throw in a pocket or purse when you go out? However, now that you've had some experience with a digital Camera for work / travel / play, perhaps you want something with better capabilities, more zoom or whatever? Be sure that whatever you buy has a "world charger" with it, as it sounds like you're getting set for another trip.

It might be beneficial to start looking now, but wait a month or two to actually purchase something. There were lots of new models introduced at the PMA show, which just wrapped up in Orlando. These probably won't be in shops for a month or so, but there were some very capable Cameras in the lot. There will probably be reviews appearing for some of these models very shortly at dpreview or other sites. This will be a good source of information to help you make an informed purchase decision.

Good luck and hope this has been some help.

[Nicstar]

excellent thanks Eagle! All that info was heaps good. Dad is getting me the camera for my birthday in May so I've a bit of time to decide, and even if I haven't decided by then, I can get the camera whenever after my birthday.

We've always had Canon's in our family since I was a bub! Dad has always been a fan of the ole Canon brand, and still uses his camera we bought in Malaysia or Singapore back in the early 80s and it is still giving great photos! Dad has never had a complaint about Canon's, so I may also check them out.

SHUTTER LAG! That sounds like its exactly what I am talking about. I need to find something thats not so slow, gets the photo WHEN I want it, not a second or so after, and can be ready right the way (thats the other thing with my sony - which I bought in may 2004 by the way- and the work one, once one photo is taken it takes aaaaaages for it to be ready with flash and all to take another photo)- at work its very important to get photos in sequence, and somewhat quickly. Just today I tried to take photos of one of the little boys taking his first walk across the room to document it in his portfolio, took the first photo of him letting go of the table (well tried to, we missed the smile on his face as he did so), and he took about 9 wobbly steps to get to the next table, but the camera wasn't ready until he'd arrived at the table. So we missed that all important part of him actually being in no-mans land all on his own!! Its not like I'm asking for super quick readiness in between there Mr Camera, he took a fair bit of time to make this walk, just one photo in amongst those 9 steps would have been nice!

So yeah, when I go check them out I'm going to have a good play with a heap of them! I'm even going to explore ones with more capabilities than what I usually use, because I do know that sometimes I do wish I had more on my cameras.

Still, with heaps of time to decide, I'm going to have fun finding the exact one I want!

I'll let ya know how I go with it all.

CHEERS
Nic

P.S, yes the hecticness of life has been good mostly, although recently we've had some not so good in our family....I actually feel like crap at the minute, but I think its more because I've had such a great time the last few months, that in comparison life currently seems absolutely dismal. Still with camera shopping and a trip to plan, all will be grand!

[Eagle]

Nicstar, sorry to hear that not all is well at the moment. Hopefully the "not so good" in your family will be very temporary. Unfortunately, the "bad times" that often follow the "good times" seem to be an unfortunate part of life. I've been having a few problems lately as well (see "I'm depressed too!" on page 2 of "The Living Room" for further information). The injury occurred fairly soon after a fantastic weekend attending an Andre Rieu concert, so it was quite a "letdown". My much anticipated next trip to Europe is somewhat uncertain until I recover.

Good luck with your Camera shopping. Check the PMA Report at dpreview for a list of all the new models that have just been introduced (the new Canon SD-700 IS looks interesting, and also the S3-IS in the "monster zoom" category).

Cheers!!!