Help!

[chelle84]

Hi guys - so we FINALLY booked our flights and have definate dates to work with now. I've got 2 ideas just need help figuring out which one will be better. A few $$$ more or less isn't going to be a major problem for us so really the quickest way would be best. Ok SO

Original Itinerary is (this is the one we will go by if we use mostly trains)
05/04/07 Depart Brisbane

07/04/07 Arrive Barcelona
08/04/07 Barcelona
09/04/07 Barcelona
10/04/07 Barcelona
11/04/07 Barcelona to Madrid (Already booked with Vueling!)
12/04/07 Madrid
13/04/07 Madrid
14/04/07 Madrid to Geneva, train to Interlaken
15/04/07 Interlaken
16/04/07 Interlaken
17/04/07 Interlaken - train to Geneva
18/04/07 Geneva to London
19/04/07 London
20/04/07 London
21/04/07 London
22/04/07 London to Paris
23/04/07 Paris
24/04/07 Paris to Amsterdam
25/04/07 Amsterdam
26/04/07 Amsterdam
27/04/07 Amsterdam to Berlin
28/04/07 Berlin
29/04/07 Berlin
30/04/07 Berlin to Prague
01/05/07 Prague
02/05/07 Prague
03/05/07 Prague
04/05/07 Prague to Budapest
05/05/07 Budapest
06/05/07 Budapest
07/05/07 Budapest
08/05/07 Budapest to Zagreb, fly to DUbrovnik
09/05/07 Dubrovnik
10/05/07 Dubrovnik
11/05/07 Dubrovnik
12/05/07 Dubrovnik
13/05/07 Dubrovnik - fly to Zagreb, train to Venice
14/05/07 Venice
15/05/07 Venice
16/05/07 Venice Rome
17/05/07 Rome
18/05/07 Rome
19/05/07 Rome
20/05/07 Rome
21/05/07 Rome
22/05/07 Fly out of Rome back to Brisbane



Or if we fly more often we will do something more like this

05/04/07 Depart Brisbane

07/04/07 Arrive Barcelona
08/04/07 Barcelona
09/04/07 Barcelona
10/04/07 Barcelona
11/04/07 Barcelona to Madrid (Already booked with Vueling!)
12/04/07 Madrid
13/04/07 Madrid
14/04/07 Madrid to Geneva, train to Interlaken
15/04/07 Interlaken
16/04/07 Interlaken
17/04/07 Interlaken - train to Geneva
18/04/07 Geneva to Berlin (fly)
19/04/07 Berlin
20/04/07 Berlin
21/04/07 Berlin to Paris (fly)
22/04/07 Paris
23/04/07 Paris to London (train)
24/04/07 London
25/04/07 London
26/04/07 London
27/04/07 London to Amsterdam (fly)
28/04/07 Amsterdam
29/04/07 Amsterdam
30/04/07 Amsterdam to Prague (fly)
01/05/07 Prague
02/05/07 Prague
03/05/07 Prague
04/05/07 Prague to Budapest (train)
05/05/07 Budapest
06/05/07 Budapest
07/05/07 Budapest
08/05/07 Budapest to Zagreb, fly to Dubrovnik
09/05/07 Dubrovnik
10/05/07 Dubrovnik
11/05/07 Dubrovnik
12/05/07 Dubrovnik - Split
13/05/07 Split (Overnight Ferry to Ancona or Pescara or wherever it goes)
14/05/07 Rome (We will probably go up to Venice for 1 night or just to check it out - go up early one morning and head back lunch time the day after.
15/05/07 Rome
16/05/07 Rome
17/05/07 Rome
18/05/07 Rome
19/05/07 Rome
20/05/07 Rome
21/05/07 Rome
22/05/07 Fly out of Rome back to Brisbane

Anyway what do you all think would be the better option.

Also in Switzerland would we be better off just spending two or so days in Geneva instead of going to Interlaken??

Please help!!!

[madamtrashheap]

My eyes are crossing just looking at the choices! So I'm not sure as to how to advise you on the "best" itinerary or travel. Did you end up deciding to train or fly from Madrid to Geneva? And I see that you've dropped Ibiza.

Both itineraries have you criss-crossing Europe, but I'm guessing that's due to flights on some routes (in the "train" one, Geneva-London I hope is a flight, if not, consider swapping dates and stopping in Paris en route to London, then fly to Amsterdam). Neither the "flying" or "train" one allows many days in Paris, in fact 2 nights is no where near enough (IMHO) time to see/do things there. If you don't have to go to Geneva (i.e. a flight isn't booked), then consider skipping it all together (I know, I know, but hear me out) and flying Madrid-London, then train to Paris and pick up more time from there.

chelle84 said:

Also in Switzerland would we be better off just spending two or so days in Geneva instead of going to Interlaken??

Whilst Geneva isn't first choice in Switzerland for many, if this means more time in Paris can be gained somewhere, then yes. Interlaken is in the middle of the scenery you'll want to see (as we've posted many times before) and is worth spending time in above Geneva, but it's all down to time.

I've probably raised more questions than I've answered! Sorry! To clarify - how are you going Madrid to Geneva (in either itinterary)? Why so little time in Paris?

[chelle84]

Hey thanks for the quick reply!

We are definately going to fly Madrid to Geneva (would prefer to fly to Zurich but that is heaps more expensive from what I can see).

Paris we are not particularly that interested in seeing to much there just the main sites and to say that we have been there lol!!

It is v confusing trying to sort all this out. Guess its better to do it sooner rather than later because if we decide to go with the rail we want to book that asap.

[herrbert]

I have to agree with the madam, that you are criss-crossing Europe (esp. in the second option, the first one looks much better). Berlin fits in better between Amsterdam and Prague.

Why so many days in Dubrovnik? (one more in the first option)

If you really want to go to Switzerland, than I suggest, spending the extra day in Interlaken. You can fly to Zurich, with Air Berlin, but it'll cost you about 190 euros, so the better alternative will be an Easyjet flight Madrid-Geneva (not yet for sale, but it will be soon).

I would advise you to take one extra day in Madrid, or actualy one day to make a daytrip to Toledo (I know I say this a lot on these boards, but it is really not to be missed, it's sooooooo beautiful). And Paris was already mentioned, but if you have no intention to visit places in Paris, than why not skip it. (seems radical, but if you don't take the time for this city, and only see the things from the outside, you can just aswell look up some photo's on the internet, and use the time you have in other places - it's only my opinion)

In short, version 1 looks the better option.
Personally I would take one day more in Madrid, and at least one day more in Paris. I would save one day in Dubrovnik (if it's possible, with transportation), and I would only spend one whole day in Venice. (by taking the train to Rome, in the late afternoon of the second day there).

[Eagle]

chelle84, I tend to agree with the others. Your proposed Itinerary seems a bit complicated with the "back and forth" trips. That method tends to be a bit inefficient in terms of both time and money.

Based on the dates that you've posted, your trip appears to be about a month and half. I'm assuming that you've already booked your flights to Europe as well as at least one regional flight. A few observations and questions for clarification.....

- I understand that you're not too interested in Paris, but there's lots to see there and you won't even be able to cover "the main sites" in the one day you have allotted. You might want to reduce some time in other cities so that you have a bit more time in Paris.

- You haven't indicated whether you've checked out the rail sites to plan the routes you'll be taking by rail. Will you be using a rail pass?

- It's probably too late now, but my preference would have been to either start or end the trip in London, thereby eliminating one "criss-cross" journey.

- I notice that you've allowed for travel days, which is good. Plan for rest time also, as I find that's important (touring around European cities tends to be quite tiring).

- It's too bad you couldn't adjust the timing a bit to fit in a short visit to Florence.

- During your visit to Interlaken, were you planning just to stay there or venture out into other areas of the Berner Oberland?

- Were you going to pre-book your accomodations, or just look for something when you arrive in each city? The latter part of your trip will be taking place in the spring "shoulder season", so you might find that some places will be booked-up. Were you only going to stay in Hostels, or use other accomodations?

Hope this some help. Good luck with your trip planning.

[me]

Chelle,

if you use your "Original Itinerary," there are some night train options in there.

[chelle84]

ok had a chat to my travel agent and she thinks we should do this:

Barcelona to Madrid (fly)
Madrid to Geneva (spend a few days in Interlaken) (fly)
Geneva to Paris (fly)
Paris to London (rail)
London to Amsterdam (fly)
Amsterdam to Berlin (rail)
Berlin to Prague (rail)
Prague to Vienna (rail)
Vienna to Budapest (rail)
Budapest to Zagreb (rail)
Zargeb to Dubrovnik(fly) -few days in dubrovnik then go to Split
Split to Ancona -train to Rome (ferry)
Over night trip to Venice

Will that work.

When are the overnight trains an option?

[chelle84]

I forgot to say that we are getting 2 different eurail passes

1 - Eurail 5 country 6 day pass for Switzerland/Italy/Netherlands/Germany/Croatia
2 - Eastern European 5 day pass for
Czech/Hungary/Austria

obviously we will have to pay for the eurostar from PAris to London and a few of the flights we will have to pay for as well (Barcelona to Madrid, Madrid to Geneva, Geneva to Paris, London to Amsterdam and Zagreb to Dubrovnik)

[madamtrashheap]

That looks fine chelle, taking into consideration the flights you've already booked.

The Geneva to Paris route will take around 3hrs 30mins direct on the TGV (fast train), so keep this in mind before you book the flight as the time getting to and waiting in airports might be just as long as the train journey. Unless you get a super cheap deal on a flight, I'm not sure it's the best option. Another point: there are flights with Air Berlin from Amsterdam to Berlin that might be worth checking out. Have a look at raileurope.com for a pass that will suit for the Prague-Vienna-Budapest section (or any other section for that matter). And consider a stop off in Dresden for a few hours when you travel from Berlin to Prague on the train.

As the others have stressed, don't write Paris off. If you have heard stories about Parisiennes being unfriendly or that there's not much to do (two of the most common misconceptions about Paris) then don't let them guide you on how much time to spend here. Eagle's point about not even fitting in the main sights in one day is absolutely correct. Consider at least two full days in Paris - that way you can see the main things and still have time to enjoy a cafe au lait as you sit in a sidewalk cafe and watch the world go by.

Herrbert's suggestions about Madrid/Toledo and Dubrovnik are v good too - talk to your friend and see how they fit into your schedule.

I'll leave David to the specifics of which night trains, but based on your previous itinerary, he was probably referring to the Madrid-Geneva route, Amsterdam-Prague route and even the Venice-Rome route has an overnight train.

You're getting there! ;D

Edit: just saw your post on rail passes after I posted - nice one!

[herrbert]

madamtrashheap said:

. Another point: there are flights with Air Berlin from Amsterdam to Berlin that might be worth checking out.

Air Berlin, will not be an option, because Amsterdam - Berlin is not in their shedule. But, take a look at Transavia, I presume this will be the best alternative, but they have not yet put their tickets for april up for sale (now they are selling until March), so keep an eye on their website www.transavia.com/en (including taxes and fees it should cost you 62,99, if I conpare it to a similair flight in March 2007)

[me]

Nighttrain options i see include:

Barcelona to Madrid, direct (i did this on my first Spain trip)
&
Amsterdam to Berlin, via Brussel

at first glance, i thought there might be others, too.

[madamtrashheap]

Could have sworn I saw AMS-TGL on their flights, but just looked again and nope. Sorry about that! Will go out for an eye test immediately!

Transavia it is! KLM might be worth a look if they have any specials, but they usually aren't cheap.

[herrbert]

madamtrashheap said:

Could have sworn I saw AMS-TGL on their flights, but just looked again and nope. Sorry about that! Will go out for an eye test immediately!

Transavia it is! KLM might be worth a look if they have any specials, but they usually aren't cheap.

I think they cancelled it, because I thought I 've seen these flights in the past aswell.

[chelle84]

Ok well our travel agent made just a tiny error on our filght schedule, i'm not comletely blaming her as we didn't pick it up until just last week, but now we have to fly to Paris first instead of Barcelona (Unless we want either a 16 hr or 27 hr stopover. We don't want that!) So yeah we are now going to:

5 Apr - Deprart Brisbane
6 Apr (0655) - ARrive Paris
7 Apr - Paris
8 Apr - Paris to Barcelona (fly)
9 Apr - Barcelona
10 Apr - Barcelona
11 Apr - Barcelona to Madrid (fly out at 1830)
12 Apr - Madrid
13 Apr - Madrid
14 Apr - Madrid to Geneva (fly) on to Interlaken
15 Apr - Interlaken
16 Apr - Interlaken
17 Apr - Interlaken
18 Apr - Interlaken to Geneva
19 Apr - Geneva to London
20 Apr - London
21 Apr - London
22 Apr - London
23 Apr - London
24 Apr - London to Amsterdam (fly)
25 Apr - Amsterdam
26 Apr - Amsterdam
27 Apr - Amsterdam to Berlin
28 Apr - Berlin
29 Apr - Berlin
30 Apr - Berlin to Prague
1 May - Prague
2 May - Prague
3 May - Prague
4 May - Prague to Vienna
5 May - Vienna
6 May - Vienna to Budapest
7 May - Budapest
8 May - Budapest
9 May - Budapest to Zagreb, fly to Split/Dubrovnik
10 May - Croatia
11 May - Croatia
12 May - Croatia
13 May - Croatia
14 May - Croatia - Italy (ferry)
15 May - Rome
16 May - Rome
17 May - Rome
18 May - Rome
18 May - Rome to Venice (early morning)
20 May - Venice to Rome (late afternoon)
21 May - Rome
22 May - Fly out of Rome at 12:00 and back in Brisbane by 19:30 on the 23rd!

We aren't planning on seeing to much in Vienna, Venice or Paris, which is why we aren't staying for to long in those cities, we mostly just want to walk around and explore a little bit.

We have planned for quite a bit of time in Croatia as we want to just relax and spend it on the coast :-) (2 Aussie chicks who spend every spare second at the beach of course we want to check it out over there!!)

And Rome, we are planning on going to Pompeii as a day trip with a tour group I think.

Prauge 3 days because its the place i've ALWAYS wanted to go...

Anyway, has anyone got any suggestions or anything they would like to add?

Oh and Madrid we are going to do one of the day trips suggested, though not sure which one yet.

By this itinerary are we spending to much time in Switzerland.

I should have roughly $7000 AUD - should this be enough, i've paid for my eurail pass already and my flight to and from Europe and have money set aside for the flights between cities. I'm not a big drinker and for shopping I won't be buying to much that I could buy back home unless I REALLY want it!! And I plan on finding hostels that have an included breakfast lol

[herrbert]

Oh and Madrid we are going to do one of the day trips suggested, though not sure which one yet.

If you have to choose between Toledo and Segovia, choose for Toledo. (next time that I am in Madrid, I want to see it again)

Money should be no problem