College Trip: Please Help!

[daffodilqueen7]

My friend and I have decided to 'get away from it all and go see the world' this summer. She is fairly fluent in German, and I know Spanish and Italian. We were planning on going about three weeks, flying in to Germany, then meandering down through Austria to the southern end of Italy. I would love to fit Spain, UK, and Ireland in here...is it worth it and are there cheap ways to get to any of them? Remember, we're both poor college students. Also, is it worth going for longer to fit more in? Where should we spend the most time? What should we definately not miss? When (between May and August) is the best time to go? I can use any suggestion you throw at me, so thank you!

[Jules80]

Generally speaking, may and early june are best as it is not as hot (especially in places like italy) and there are less tourists and less line ups. major cities count 4-5 days (ie rome, paris, barcelona), smaller cities you'll want 2-3 days (florence, innsbruck). in three weeks you could probably hit no more than 5 cities. if you really want to see more, you'd need to extend your trip. realistically, if you wanted to keep it to 3 weeks, you could hit a couple of german cities, maybe innsbruck, and then rome and florence. i suggest innsbruck only because vienna would implicate a couple of 10 hour train rides.

people will have more suggestions when you post more info on what you like. its hard to suggest places for people when you don't know their intrests.

Jules

[herrbert]

It is always best to go longer, to fit in more places, the only thing you don't want to do is to get stuck on a shedule, that is too tight. my only concern would be: can you both afford to stay longer?

If you want to do a trip of three weeks, then try to find some places that are 'near' to eachother, you don't want to lose too many hours in a train/plane, just to reach these cities (unless, there are some places you consider a must-see). Flying is a cheap way of transport in Europe, but you will have to book early, if you want some good deals. if you read some of the topics here you will see flying is sometimes cheaper than getting on a train (esp. if you are travelling greater distances.) July and August isn't the best time to travel in Spain and Italy as it gets to hot, and to crowded, so like Jules I prefer May and June.

If you are able to make a list of the things you want to see on this trip, and what your interests are, it's easier to give advice.

[Eagle]

daffodilqueen7, first of all, welcome to the Boards! I agree with the others in that it's a good idea to avoid travelling in July and August, if at all possible. Europe is usually hot and crowded at those times, and in addition it's holiday time for some Europeans in those months. As Jules suggested, May and June ("shoulder season") are good months to travel. However, it can also be somewhat "busy" even then so you'll have to give some thought on whether you want to pre-book your accomodations.

Realistically, I'm not sure it's going to be possible to visit all of the destinations you listed in a three week time period. I doubt that you'll have time to do any "meandering" ("To move aimlessly and idly without fixed direction"). I would suggest that in order to visit as many places as possible and achieve the best travel experience, some precise planning would be a good idea. If you rush through the trip too quickly, you'll probaby find that you spend a lot of time looking at Europe through a train / airplane window, and/or don't get enough time in each destination to really see anything properly.

As Herrbert mentioned, it's difficult to offer suggestions on places to visit, without having some idea of what your interests are and what you hope to see while you're in Europe. It would also help to know which area you are flying from. In any case, especially with such a short trip I would highly recommend "open jaw" flights so that you don't have to spend the time and money to return to your starting point for the flight home.

Given the countries that you mentioned, here are a few more points for clarification:

- a list of cities and attractions in each city that you're interested in seeing would be really helpful. It's difficult to make suggestions without that.

- you mentioned travelling to the southern end of Italy. Does that mean you're not interested in seeing anything in the northern half?

- IMHO, it's going to be a challenge to arrange the time to fit the U.K. and Ireland in during a three week trip. However, if using open-jaw flights, a short visit to the south of England (London, Bath, etc.) might be possible. Of course this would be at the expense of other places in Europe. I would probably eliminate Spain due to the distances and travel times involved (even with budget flights, you only have 21 days to work with and if you're coming from North America you will probably lose the first day due to flight times and the time change).

- when choosing your flights, you'll probably find that flying to and from major hubs (London, Paris, Frankfut) gives you the most flexibility and the best prices. I always deal with a travel agent for international flights, rather than using on-line sources as this approach has worked well for me both in terms of price and choices.

- you've probably read a lot of the other Posts on these Boards with respect to planning rail journeys. Were you planning on getting a Rail Pass?

- it's highly advisable to read some Guide books, especially if this is your first trip to Europe. You'll notice from the posts here that everyone has their own preference in Guide books.

- be sure to pack light, especially if you plan on using any of the budget airlines, as they've tightened up the limits for baggage. If you're travelling with heavy luggage, be prepared to pay!!!

Hope these few comments will be of help. Good luck with your trip planning! I'm sure the group here will be able to offer lots of tips as you work through the planning process.

Cheers!!!

[daffodilqueen7]

WOW! Thank you so much for the quick responses! This has now become one of my favorite sites; Thank you!

After taking these things into consideration, we have decided to definately keep it down to Germany, Austria, and Italy. We'll be flying out of Wisconsin, and will probably go into Frankfurt, spend a few days there, go to Munich, then on to Salzburg/Innsbruck (any suggestion on the either/or?), and wind on down to Venice. Wind through Italy via Florence, and Rome. Possibly Napoli if there's time, but seeing as we'll probably have to get back up to Rome to an airport, probably not. We will have a 3-country rail pass.

We are interested mostly in enjoying ourselves and seeing the world. We definately want to 'see the sights', even just to say that we've been there. We want to go to the major museums and do classic touristy things, but also want to get to know the culture. We'll both be studying abroad in a year or two, so we want to get a feel for where we want to go.

Things that interest us are local festivals/markets, pubs/wineries, museums/architecture, and sightseeing. We will also enjoy a bit of adventure, night life, and meeting people.

[madamtrashheap]

daffodilqueen7, can I add to your itinerary and suggest that you fly into Berlin, then make your way south from there. Frankfurt is a major hub, but sites-wise it's not the most exciting city in Germany.

You could do something like this: Berlin - Dresden - Munich - Salzburg - Innsbruck - Venice - Florence - Siena - Rome. Dresden and Siena are added bonusses if you have time, but in three weeks I think you'll find it difficult to fit them in. See how you go.

If you do find time, you would be better served spending a night or two in Sorrento or Positano rather than Naples (Napoli). Much prettier, safer and a good example of the villages on the Amalfi Coast. I've always enjoyed Naples, but it's not for everyone and is getting nastier by the minute so perhaps consider passing through but not staying.

Depending on how much time you decide to spend in each city, there are also day trips worth taking. For example, from Rome, you could always do a day trip to Pompei (long day, but worth it), if you don't stay on the Amalfi. From Munich you could do a day trip to the castles (Neuschwanstein, Hohenschangau, Lindau) near Fuessen. From Florence you can easily visit Pisa in half a day.

On the Salzburg vs Innsbruck question, both have their charms, and if you have the time why not spend a night or two in both. My personal preference is Innsbruck, but I've always enjoyed Salzburg. If it helps make up your mind, there are no Sound of Music tours in Innsbruck! Munich, Salzburg and Innsbruck are all short journeys by train, so you'll only be spending a few hours, at most, on the train between these cities and this won't eat into your time too much.

Happy planning and keep us updated on your progress.

[Eagle]

daffodilqueen7, thanks for the additional information; that helps!

Given the time you have available, keeping the list of cities short might be the best idea. One possibility might be to fly to Frankfurt, but don't plan on spending any time there (that's what I did in September - my flight to Frankfurt was chosen to arrive at 06:00 and I got on the train right away to Rothenburg and didn't spend any time in Frankfurt at all). If you arrive early in the morning, try and fight the jet lag and keep yourself going until about 21:00 if possible.

Would something like this work for you:

> Flight to Frankfurt - 1 day (lose one day in flight, arriving the following day)

> Munich - 3 days (you'll need a day or two to get over jet lag) - tour Munich and take day trips to the Castles - I used Radius Tours (located in the Munich Train Station) and they provided a fantastic tour (don't forget to grab a beer for the trip back on the train - your guide will probably point that out).

> Salzburg / Innsbruck - 3 days (possibly day tours to Hallstatt and Salzkammergut?)

> Venice - 2 days (I found Venice to be a bit expensive - do some research into which attractions in Venice are most important for you to see, so that you don't waste any time. The usual favourites are the Cathedral, The Doge's Palace, Piazza San Marco, etc.)

> Florence - 3 days (again, do some research on what you want to see there. The usual attractions are the Uffizi Gallery and Accademia - both of these require reservations unless you want to stand in lineup for what might be a LONG time - your Hotel can make reservations for you. The Ponte Vecchio is interesting to at least have a look at, but unless you've got lots of money you probably won't want to do any shopping there). I recommend the restaurant Il Grillo Parlante (I found myself stopping there on an almost daily basis during my visit to Florence, however from what I remember they don't open until 19:00).

> Siena - 2 days (I found that 2 days in Siena is the "bare minimum" - I would have liked another day or so, and for that reason will have to plan a return visit - you might want to allot 3 days?). A web site that might give you a few ideas is www.galeit.com/siena.htm - I had a fantastic meal at the restaurant listed at the bottom, Osteria Il Tamburino. You might be able to fit a day trip to Orvieto on the way to Rome (it's in Umbria, but is a really interesting hill town, with a lot of history).

> Rome - 5 or 6 days. There is LOTS to see in Rome, but with a longer stay I'm sure you could include a day trip to Pompeii as well - it will be a LONG day however. Don't plan to spend too much time in Napoli though, as they're having a few "problems" right now and about a week ago were talking about calling out the Army to assist the Police in dealing with the "undesirables". If you have time, check out my Post in the Living Room section ("Eagle is flying on his way") regarding the unofficial tour guides at the Colosseum. Also, watch out for the Gypsies in Rome (especially on the Metro), they're a darn nuisance - wear a Money Belt! From Rome you could also make a day trip to Ostia Antica, which is kind of an interesting site - have a look at www.initaly.com/regions/latium/ostia.htm.

That adds up to about 20 days. Keep in mind that you won't be able to spend as many full days in each city as I've listed, as part of the time will be used for travel between cities, finding your lodgings and getting checked in, etc. You should be able to do most if not all of your trip via train, which should work well with your rail pass. The budget airlines are good for some situations, but often these are located well out of the city centres, so extra time and transportation costs have to be factored in.

I usually choose lodgings that are relatively close to the main train station in each city, and often pack a small photocopied map along so that I can find the Hotel / Hostel quickly. Will you be staying only in Hostels, or other types of lodgings as well.

Anyway, hope this helps. Happy travels!!!

[herrbert]

I don't have a lot to add to the previous comments. the route Eagle put down, is a good one and above all realistic. (I wouldn't expect anything else, btw).

Salzburg has some nice things to see. Of course it's the place were Mozart was born, and the house were he was born is now a museum. You could make a daytrip to Werfen (45 by train), to see the Ice-Caves of Eisreisenwelt. (It's cold, but beautiful), and go for a walk in the hills.

Innsbruck has the better views, and here is also a good hiking possibility. You can take the gondola to Hafelekar (the gondolastation is just outside the center of the city) and climb the mountain, which is not really spectacular, as it is a 10 minute walk, but you will take much longer, because the views are spectacular. There are many trails that you can follow. (just wear some good-profiled shoes).

If you stick to the cities than Salzburg and Innsbruck are doable in one day each, but there is so much more to do. Personaly I would have 1 night in Salzburg, and 2 in Innsbruck (one day to see the city, and one day in the mountains (or if you like it more - a little trip to Imst or Hall).