Itinery for Jan/Feb 07

[mellygee]

Hey There All!

I was wondering if i could grab some advice for a trip i am planning. circumstances have left it late for the planning as i fly out on boxing day .....
my europe dates aren't set in stone yet, but am working of getting into London on the 16th Jan (flights permitting)... i want to see as much as possible so would love to here suggestions as to squishing it together nicely.... this is what ive got so far -


London (3), Paris (4), bordeaux (2), Madrid (3), ~fly ~ Geneva (2), Nice (2), Florence (2), Rome (3), ~ferry~ Athens (3), ~fly~ Milan, Venice (2), Vienna (2), Prague (3), Munich (3), Amsterdam (3), Berlin (3), ~fly~ Coppenhagen (3)

I'm thinking train between cities, hopefully some overnight ones ? if possible ?
i have a few days to play with but need to be back in Aust by atleast the 2/03.

Any suggestions/help/advice would be greatly appreciated ;D
Cheers All!

[herrbert]

Hi Mellygee,

First advice would be to add more time to the larger cities, if you stick to this shedule, you will be running around like mad, to see all there is to see. At least take more time in London, Madrid, Rome, Vienna and Prague. I know this would probably mean leaving out some cities. But I don't want to make this choice as some places appeal to other people much more, than they do to me. (but personaly I would leave out Copenhagen (similar to Amsterdam) and maybe Nice and Geneve (taking a lot of time to reach by train, and no low-budgetflights available)

A ferry from Rome to Athens, will take too much time, if you really want to take a ferry to Athens, you need to travel to the south, and even then it takes some time to make the crossing. In my opinion, you have to wonder, if it is wise go to the South-East of Europe to only visit Athens? If you have some time left also go to one or two of the Ilses (Santorini ??). But in this time of the year it might be difficult to find a international flight, so you might need to go back to Athens first. The cheapest flight I know of in a flight Berlin-Athens, you could continue your trip if you fly with Alitalia back to Rome. from there on the Florence, Venice etc.

Also note that some flights are not available in the Winterseason, and note that Madrid can be cold in January, it's better to leave this place until the end of your trip. It could be a possible place to fly home from. (or when you don't fly open-jaw, it's a place where you can get a cheap Easy-Jet ticket back to London).

[madamtrashheap]

Welcome mellygee!

I agree with Herrbert's advice, particularly regarding Athens -unless you're going to be on the east coast of Italy, it's not worth trying to get from Rome to, say, Brindisi or Bari and getting a ferry form there to mainland Greece or Corfu, then continuing on to Athens. You'll end up travelling for two-thirds of the time you've allocated to Athens. Best either fly to Athens from Rome and spend the 3 days there (the islands won't be open at that time of year, too cold and windy) or perhaps save Athens and the Greek Islands for another trip altogether (in the northern Summer would be best).

Any reason for Bordeaux? Wine or is it to break up the train trip? Nice in January/February isn't the same as in Summer (clearly!), so unless your heart is set on going there, perhaps consider skipping it this time around. As you're no doubt aware, it's pretty damn cold in most of the places you're visiting at this time of year, so be prepared for snow, wind and rain...and also some amazing bright blue winter skies! Also keep in mind that museums and sights are on Winter timetables, so opening and closing times will be shorter. This is offset by shorter lines/queues to get in, which is always a bonus. Check the opening times/days before you trek off to places.

Based on you wanting to squish as much in a possible, how does this look (based on the number in brackets being full days in each city):

London (3), train to Paris (4-5), fly (www.vueling.com should have some deals) to Madrid (3), fly (again with Vueling) to Rome (5), train to Florence (4), train to Venice (2-3), train to Innsbruck (1), train to Munich (2-3), train to Vienna (3), train to Budapest (2), train to Prague (3), train to Berlin (4), fly (www.transavia.com) to Amsterdam (3-4), fly out from Amsterdam to Australia.

This is based on an open-jaw flight as I'm not sure if you need to fly back out of London (if you ticket is already booked). If you do, then it's easy and cheap to fly Amsterdam to London. I haven't really counted the days to equal when you need to be back in Australia, but they are a "best case scenario" of time to spend there if you have it. I've also left out Switzerland, but you can add it in for a few days with a little tweak. I'll leave that to you, but remember that it's ski season so it will be busy in places around Gimmelwald/Lauterbrunnen/Interlaken, and these are the places in Switzerland worth visiting. Depending on what you decide, you can also do some day trips from places like Florence (Pisa, San Gimignano, Siena), Rome (Pompei, Hadrians Villa near Tivoli, Civita di Bagnoregio), Madrid (Toledo..anywhere else Herrbert?), Paris (Versailles, note: Monet's Gardens in Giverny are closed in Winter), London (Stonehenge, Bath, Windsor, Oxford or Cambridge), Prague (Kutna Hora, Cesky Krumlov). As you can see, there's plenty to cram in, so even if you don't make it to all the cities listed, there are still gems to be found around each one.

Let us know what you come up with. Happy (and quick) planning! ;D

[herrbert]

--- Madrid (Toledo..anywhere else Herrbert?) ---,

Don't get me started about Madrid ... I miss this place sooooo badly.

Toledo is the most beautiful of the places, and the easiest to reach (by train and by bus). It's also a place where you can go to see the mixture of the Christian/Islamic and Jewish culture, esp if you are not going further south ... to Granada/Cordoba and/or Sevilla.

Segovia: Definitely worth a visit. Be sure to visit the Alcazar, and see the Roman Aquaduct. The Cathedral is beautiful. actuality the whole old town is really beautiful, but if you have to choose between Toledo and Segovia, I'd choose Toledo.

Other places that are worth a visit.

Alcala
Aranjuez (but not on a monday ... everything is closed)
Chin-Chon

[me]

might i toss out some other ideas, built on Madam's schedule?

that London - Paris Eurostar isn't cheap. it's fast, but isn't cheap.
planned ahead, plane flights are much cheaper.

while Madrid is beautiful, i found Barcelona to be even more delightful/impressive. <but, others disagree>

i agree with the Italy plan. actually, i even overnighted in Siena - which i find to be underrated.

an alternative to that Berlin - Amsterdam flight might be a night train < NZ 1448, 7 hours> from Berlin-Lichtenberg to Cologne, get off the train, have some breakfast and check out that magnificent Cathedral across the square from the station, a UNESCO World Heritage Site. two ½ hrs later, at quarter after 10, hop on another express train, 2½ hours, to Amsterdam.

but, unless you have a railpass, German trains are expensive!

madamtrashheap said:

London (3), train to Paris (4-5), fly (www.vueling.com should have some deals) to Madrid (3), fly (again with Vueling) to Rome (5), train to Florence (4), train to Venice (2-3), train to Innsbruck (1), train to Munich (2-3), train to Vienna (3), train to Budapest (2), train to Prague (3), train to Berlin (4), fly (www.transavia.com) to Amsterdam (3-4), fly out from Amsterdam to Australia.

[herrbert]

If you can get a standard / non-flexible ticket for the Eurostar, you can get from London to Paris for 45 euros. So it doesn't have to be really expensive. But please note: These tickets are only available mondays to fridays, and it's best to make reservation way in advance.

[madamtrashheap]

me said:

that London - Paris Eurostar isn't cheap. it's fast, but isn't cheap. planned ahead, plane flights are much cheaper.

It's not cheap, but if you add up the time and cost of getting to any of the airports (train tickets are between GBP9-15 and travel time can be anywhere from 30 to 90mins) it often works out the same. And Herrberrt has pointed out the fares to which I was referring (ooh, that was very gramatically correct wasn't it!), so if you can bag one of those you'll be laughing all the way to Paris! Book now though as the time of year you're travelling won't be easy. I assume you want to spend NYE in Paris? Hope you've booked a hotel/hostel by now!

If you do decide to fly, try to go from Gatwick - BA often have cheap flights from there to Paris (CDG) and it's pretty simple and cheap enough to get to (30mins on train from Victoria Station, GBP14 and run every 15mins during most of the day). Alternatively, BMI (www.flybmi.com) fly Heathrow to Paris (CDG) and their flights are super cheap. (Heathrow Express from Paddington Station takes 15mins to the airport, GBP13.50 or Tube/Underground costs around GBP5, but allow around 1hr15mins, depending on time of day and Terminal required as there is work on the track out there). I'm trying to avoid Stansted and Luton for you as that time of year is even more chaotic than usual and getting out there takes far too long on a good day. Good call on the night train Berlin-Amsterdam, David.