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Post by me on Feb 13, 2007 12:00:38 GMT -5
hmmm,
not so sure Brussel is a "must see." i've never been, and as the executive capitol of EU, my understanding is that it's full of Eurocrats during the week (many of whom fly home on the weekend).
actually, i've spent little time in Belgium, but others here strongly suggest Brugge, on Belgium's coast. to me, Amsterdam, Netherlands, is well worth a visit. the city is sooo laid back yet also houses two of the world's greatest art museums: Rijksmuseum & Van Gogh Museum. as well as other interesting, worthwhile places of interest.
skipping ahead, you include as the one Swiss destination, Zürich. why? Zürich is a big <over a million people>, expensive, rather dirty - by Swiss standards - city. there are some historically important, to the reform movement, Churches and a fairly nice urban lake, but i wouldn't go to Zürich except for the fact it's the southernmost European city with non-stop flights to/from my hometown. that, & i have friends in southern Germany, just North of there.
if i were you, i think i'd skip Switzerland, spend more time in Italy. [perhaps to Florence, do day trips to Pisa & Siena. or, even as overnights in Siena, one of the real jewels of Italy. the Piazza del Campo & the Cathedral in Siena are wonderful!]
in general, i often find smaller cities & towns to be more interesting places. but i grew up & still live in a big city, Dallas.
as well as these suggestions, i would advise that you look into taking some flights between the more distant cities. flight can be surprisingly cheap! often cheaper than trains.
- d
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Post by herrbert on Feb 13, 2007 13:34:06 GMT -5
I would take a look at some flights if I were you. www.flylc.com/directall-en.asp, There are several options from and to the places you want to go. Also I wouldn't do the day in the Bavarian Alps, but if you are going to make the trip Munich - Venice by train, I would make a stop for a day (or 2 days) in Innsbruck. I agree on Brussels not being a "must-see" city. Brugges would be a better option. |
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Post by madamtrashheap on Feb 13, 2007 23:16:57 GMT -5
I'm with the boys on all their points, and here are a few more suggestions: As we know, I enjoy Brussels (P.S. Belgium is a country, not a city  ) but if you've never been to Belgium then choose Brugge over Brussles to stay in, or spend 2 days in Brugge and 1 in Brussels. If you have the time, don't skip Belgium and the Netherlands as they offer great cities and sights. If you want Swiss Alps, then no doubt you've read about Gimmelwald on this site. Another place is Engelberg, or even just time in Luzern. Zurich has a lake, but isn't really in the Alps the way you're probably invisaging. If you don't keep Switzerland, how about looking at Lake Como (not the town Como, but villages on the lake)? Depending on the route you take you could either go there between Florence and Venice (stay a few nights, not a day trip) or drop in on the way to Switzerland - completely dependent on the route you choose. Munich offers access to the castles (Neuschwanstein, Linderhof), Dachau and is a cool city itself. As Herrbert wrote, Innsbruck is a better option for mountains. Berlin is a great city and 4 days would be perfect. You could fly there from most of the cities you've listed so don't leave it out. You haven't stated exactly how much time you're wanting to be travelling - do you have a time limit or are you unbound? |
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Post by madamtrashheap on Feb 14, 2007 1:57:33 GMT -5
Aha! To all sorts of questions!
Right, if it's hiking you want, then Innsbruck will fulfil that, but again if you really want to go to the "Bavarian Alps" then do it, although hike to far and you'll end up in Austria anyway (!) - anywhere in particular you had in mind? (Garmisch-Partenkirchen, Zugspitze, Bregenz?)
If you're on a tight budget then avoid Switzerland - mountains in Austria are still alive with the sound....! And to be budget conscious, look at hostels where you can cook your own food (buying for 3-4 pax will be easy and cost effective with little waste) and perhaps look at any night trains btwn cities - this will cut down on accommodation expenses, although remember to book your place on these trains.
Looking at the new itinerary:
Arrival in Brussels, Train to Bruges
Bruges- 2.5 Days
Amsterdam (via morning train) - 3 Days
Berlin (via late overnight train) - 4 Days
Munich (via morning train) - 3.5 Days look at the night train Berlin-Munich too
Innsbruck (via morning train) - 1.5 Days
Scenic Train Route from Innsbruck to Venice - .5 Day it's worth the extra time, great scenery!
Venice - 2 Days
Florence (via morning train) - 3 Days
Rome (via morning train) - 5 Days look at flying to Paris from Rome (check EasyJet as Ryanair flies to Beauvais Airport which is many miles from Paris). The overnight train actually takes around 12hours and is looooong. But again, if you can't find good prices for flights, the train will have to do.Paris (via overnight train) - 4.5 Days
US$60 a day is around Euro45, so that's on the very low end of a budget, even if you stay in dorms and eat the breakfast in the hostel (if it's included) you'll be pushing it. Most recommendations are for US$100, just so you know. At least staying out of Switzerland will help keep expenses down.
It's looking good, you'll have a lot of fun!
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Post by thebalderdasher on Feb 14, 2007 2:14:58 GMT -5
I checked out a few sites on Gimmelwald and it looks spectacular!
I'm thinking about cutting a day from Munich to instead spend part of a day to travel to Interlaken/Gimmelwald, and then spending a total of 2 nights and one day in Gimmelwald. I feel like the only expenses here would be getting from Interlaken to Gimmelwald and back, and food. And then we would be able to go for an easy hike and just shoot the breeze in the midst of the Alps.
Do you think this would be a better alternative than Innsbruck? I'm assuming the train ride from Interlaken to Venice would be just as breathtaking as from Innsbruck to Venice.
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Post by madamtrashheap on Feb 14, 2007 2:24:41 GMT -5
If you're trying to save money, then Inssbruck would be a slightly better choice than Switzerland. But...Gimmelwald is spectacular so I can see the allure.
All in all, I think you'll enjoy hiking in either place (Innsbruck or Gimmelwald) as the scenery is spectacular regardless. Some things that might help you decide:
food in Switzerland is expensive
the Tirol (area around Innsbruck) and the Bavarian Alps) have walking trails that get you up amongst the birds and trees for shooting the breeze too.
And probably the biggest thing: the train from Munich to Luzern (5hrs) then on to Interlaken (2hr-2hr20m) then on to Gimmelwald (1hr) means that one full day there will seem like you need longer, plus the days either side will be taken up by travel.
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Post by me on Feb 14, 2007 17:26:28 GMT -5
Frankfurt is a big bankers town. Germany's Federal Bank, as well as the European Central Bank are headquartered there. in that region, i'd opt for the smaller, yet culturally important nearby city, Mainz. i found the unusually shaped cathedral and, especially, the Gutenberg museum in Mainz to be interesting. one source sez Mainz is European Capital of Culture in 2007. others say it isn't.  - d |
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Post by herrbert on Feb 14, 2007 18:41:27 GMT -5
You could fly Berlin - Stuttgart, that would mean you are half way there, but personaly I would keep Munich. (at least I prefer it above Frankfurt, and Stuttgart.) btw. you can fly to Stuttgart and Munich by Germanwings.
Other options you could consider (if skipping Munich and Frankfurt):
flying Berlin - Friedrichshafen (On Lake Konstanz aka Bodensee). Flight by Intersky from Berlin Tempelhof. If it would make you feel better: if you take the train (20-25km) to Lindau, and you are in Bavaria. You could also add a complete country to your list: Liechtenstein ... ;D
Flying Berlin - Zurich with Air Berlin, so you can have more days in the Alps. (flights from Berlin Tegel)
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Post by me on Feb 14, 2007 19:39:26 GMT -5
the Uni-city Konstanz, there on the Bodensee, is also worthy of a look. because the Swiss city Kreutzlingen is literally across the street, Konstanz wasn't destroyed in WWII. [the allies didn't want to risk a bomb falling on the Swiss city] Konstanz harbor has an interesting revoving statue (Imperia), and Konstanz is the only city North of the alps where a pope of the Roman Church was chosen. - d flying Berlin - Friedrichshafen (On Lake Konstanz aka Bodensee). |
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Post by madamtrashheap on Feb 14, 2007 20:22:53 GMT -5
My best friend lives in Frankfurt and even she wouldn't recommend it as a great tourist destination! Keep Munich, go to Gimmelwald and as long as you're aware of the long train ride and are prepared you'll enjoy a day in the Alps. one source sez Mainz is European Capital of Culture in 2007. others say it isn't. Cynics say the city that is designated European Capital of Culture (they give it to a different city each year) needs the attention and money to make it more interesting and to fund new projects that will hopefully bring visitors to the city. Great example is Cork (Ireland) as it wasn't a favoured destination until the big push in 2005 when it was given the European Capital of Culture badge - now people go because it's been spruced up (nicely too) and there are more facilities. This isn't alwasy true (that the city needs help) as Brugge was a candidate in 2002 (i think) and it clearly did/does just fine in terms of tourism. According to the official site, Mainz isn't listed as a candidate this year (Luzembourg is) but who knows as they may be a late entry |
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Post by madamtrashheap on Feb 14, 2007 23:44:53 GMT -5
If you don't want to visit the castles, then that's a good plan. 2 days in Munich will allow you to see the city, pay a visit out to Dachau and (mis)spend time in a beerhall/garden or two. Then you can enjoy more time in the Alps. Sound like a plan? |
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Post by thebalderdasher on Feb 14, 2007 23:52:31 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure four guys wouldn't mind missing out on Sleeping Beauty's castle (I immediately changed my mind when I found out it was Sleeping Beauty's castle NOT Cinderella's castle, what a hoax! :-P). Not venturing to Fussen can save us some money. AND, 2 days on a train will stop us from spending more money. At least that's my logic.
I'm assuming the train ride from Munich to Interlaken to Venice would be just as breathtaking as the ride from Munich directly to Venice?
How long from Munich to Dachau?
Also another possibility...friend is studying abroad in Konstanz. Munich worth skipping for free accomodation? I know Konstanz isn't Bavaria and probably would have less to do than Munich (and probably slightly less quality beer)? Just want to know your thoughts on Konstanz as a substitution.
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Post by madamtrashheap on Feb 15, 2007 0:03:33 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure four guys wouldn't mind missing out on Sleeping Beauty's castle (I immediately changed my mind when I found out it was Sleeping Beauty's castle NOT Cinderella's castle, what a hoax! :-P). So you like blondes, eh?!! Munich - Innsbruck (I think you mean here, in Austria and not in Switzerland as that's going backwards)- Venice train ride vs the Munich - Venice train doesn't matter as you have to go through Austria to get to Italy from Germany, so it's pretty much the same. Athough you won't head off to the west as much, you'll certainly pass through the Dolomites, so yes, spectacular all round. Munich to Dachau: Here's the official website www.kz-gedenkstaette-dachau.de/englisch/content/ that has the directions. You take a Schnell-Bahn (fast train, S 2) train from the Haupbahnhof in Munich to Dachau, then a bus takes you to the Concentration Camp (K-Z). Allow an hour one way as the S-Bahn trains are regular, the bus is every 20-30mins or so. Make sure you take note of the hours and closing day. |
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Post by madamtrashheap on Feb 15, 2007 0:14:29 GMT -5
Ah, now I understand.
Yes! ;D
What about Konstanz? David suggested it as an alternative to going to Switzerland, but now that you've changed your days around to go to Gimmelwald then there's not really the chance to include it without eating into more days. I'm sure you'll be happy with Munich and the Alps.
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Post by me on Feb 15, 2007 22:57:42 GMT -5
Oh, and what about Konstanz? Konstanz came up because Herrbert mentioned flying to Friedrichshafen. Konstanz isn't too far from Friedrichshafen. there's also a Zepplin (the lighter than air ship. like the Hindenberg) museum in Friedrichshafen that looks interesting, based on the website. i've never been to that museum. |
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) but if you've never been to Belgium then choose Brugge over Brussles to stay in, or spend 2 days in Brugge and 1 in Brussels. If you have the time, don't skip Belgium and the Netherlands as they offer great cities and sights.