Problems with Itinerary

[armzie]

Hi all. My hubby and I are backpacking through Europe for the first time, and I am having some trouble with the itinerary - hope you can help! He is an architect, so architecture is VERY important!!

28 April-1 May: London(4 nights)
2 May - 6 May: Paris (4 nights, then overnight train to Berlin?)
6 May-10 May: Berlin (4 nights)
10 May - 12 May: Prague (2 nights)
12 May - 15 May: Vienna (3 nights)
15 May - 18 May: Munich (3 nights)
18 May - 21 May: Venice (3 nights)
21 May - 23 May: Florence (2 nights)
23 May - 26 May: Rome (3 nights)

Now I have a problem because we will head for Spain next, but it is such a long journey by train? Any ideas or suggestions of places we should stop at in-between?

Barcelona: 29 May - 1 June (3 nights)
Madrid: 1-4 June (3 nights)
Bilbao: 4-6 June (3 nights)
7 June Bilbao to Paris - another long LONG train journey???? Not much time though, catching a flight home from London on the 08th of June.

If anyone can give me some advice, it would be much appreciated!

[pointofnoreturn]

I would probably take off 1 or 2 nighs from Berlin and add it to Rome. Rome's one of the major cities (along with Paris and London) and should get equal nights as them.

[herrbert]

If your husband likes modern architecture, than I would recommend leaving the days in Berlin as they are.

I would do Venice 1 night less, and Florence 1 night more, and to add the days in Rome (you'll need them), I would fly directly from Rome to Barcelona. (check Vueling, AirEuropa, and Ryanair). You have more than 2 months before the trip, so you should get a cheap flight from one of these companies.

AirEuropa, also has flights Bilboa - Paris CDG. You might also want to consider flying Paris - Berlin. (Easyjet from Paris Orly, or AirBerlin from CDG. Don't take Ryanair for this route, as they fly from Beauvais airport, miles away from Paris)

[me]

Hi, Armzie!

as the train through France is a long one, might i suggest a flight from Rome to Barcelona?

as you want to get to Barcelona on May 29, fly that date on Vueling.com for just €45, total. take advantage of those two days planed for transit in Rome. [Rome is probably the most important city in the history of Western Civilization. 3 days just isn't enough time there.]

- d

[me]

i just looked at the AirEuropa site. if i'm reading correctly, tix for that Bilbao - Paris flight are €510 each!

you could save lots by flying on Vueling via Madrid. or, if you're not wedded to this schedule, go from Barcelona to Bilbao, there's a night train (not a train hotel, though) or take a flight. then go from Bilbao to Madrid <train or plane> and, after a seeing Madrid region for a few days, catch a flight to Paris from Madrid.

herrbert said:

AirEuropa, also has flights Bilboa - Paris CDG.

[herrbert]

510 would be at little bit overbudgetted (I think I made up a new word), so much for a new website I was using (Claiming to give all flights by budget-airlines. Well sometimes AirEuropa has bargains ... and sometimes not.

But doing this part the other way, you can indeed fly back to Madrid (Spanair 35E all in), and then to Paris would be a good option.

btw: you can also fly Barcelona - Bilbao, with Spanair for the same price.

[me]

one more idea, unless another pops into my head ;D, Fly from Rome to Madrid, train or plane to Bilbao, train or plane to Barcelona <wonderful Gaudi buildings there! (did you know the English word gaudy is derived from the name Gaudi?)> and then catch a flight to Paris (CDG or ORY) from Barcelona.

as Professor Higgens might have put it: "the train from Spain takes longer than the plane."

- d

[armzie]

Hi all,

Thanks so much for the help! I am definitely going to fly Rome-Madrid, and Barcelona-Paris.

Does the rest of our itinarary look okay? Enough time in each place? Should we try and fit more in, or take something away?

Please forgive my ignorance (novice traveller!) but what does CDG or ORY mean?

Thanks again for all the help!

[herrbert]

Paris CGD = Paris Charles de Gaulle Airport, and ORY means Orly Airport. Both airports have good connections.

The rest of the days look good to me, if you add more days to Rome, (the ones you save by flying) it looks really good.

When you are in Florence, and you want to see, the most important museums in town, you can make reservations before you leave (or let your hotel do that for you). It will save you time, standing in line.

[armzie]

Hi guys! You have all been such a huge help, thanks!

Have a different problem now with the new itinerary:

28 April-1 May: London(4 nights)
2 May - 6 May: Paris (4 nights, then overnight train to Berlin)
6 May-10 May: Berlin (4 nights)
10 May - 13 May: Prague (3 nights)
13 May - 16 May: Vienna (3 nights)
16 May - 19 May: Munich (3 nights)
19 May - 21 May: Venice (2 nights)
21 May - 24 May: Florence (3 nights)
24 May - 29 May: Rome (5 nights)
29 May - 2 June: Barcelona (4 nights)
2 June - 4 June: Bilbao (2 nights)
4 June - 7 June: Madrid (3 nights)

Basically I now have 2 extra days (the 7th and 8th of June) - we are flying back from London on the 9th..should we fly back to Paris and spend the 7th and 8th there, or should we stay longer in a previous place on the itinerary?

[me]

Vienna needs more time. 3 days isn't enough, i don't think. Vienna, the capitol of Habsberg Europe, has elements of culture from much of the East, so you really ought to get more than a taste there, i think.

of the places i've been, Vienna is only surpassed by Rome in importance. London is close, but Vienna isn't as harsh as London, yet has more to offer, culturally. [the British empire was geographically bigger, but it's European element was scant. the Habsburg empire was *all* European! (well, a quick check shows it included Mexico for 4 years in the 1860's)]

[herrbert]

I have to agree with David on Vienna, but I would also give one day extra to Madrid. In this way you can visit Toledo as a daytrip, and if you were already planning that anyway, you could do a trip to Segovia. (Both are really pretty, and worth a daytrip from Madrid).

[armzie]

Hi!

Thanks for the advice, I will definitely consider it...another option we were thinking about would be to stay an extra night in Paris and do a day trip to Versailles and/or Chartres?

Or will the 4 nights already be enough for Paris?

As for a day trip to Toledo/Segovia, we didn't even know you could do that! Will definitely add it onto our itinerary! Which one would you recommend if we can only do one?

Thanks again for all the help, it is much appreciated!!

[herrbert]

armzie said:

As for a day trip to Toledo/Segovia, we didn't even know you could do that! Will definitely add it onto our itinerary! Which one would you recommend if we can only do one?

There is a good train connection between Madrid and Toledo. The easiest way, would be to go to the Atocha Station, and buy a ticket there. You could also go by bus. Those leave at Mendez Alvaro Station (a combined Metro/Busstation).

For Segovia is it faster to go by bus, as the train stops at every stop of the Cercanias lines (commuter-train), a lot of stops. Busses leave at Chamartin (also one of the bigger stations in Madrid).

[madamtrashheap]

After all that, allow me to add my two cents worth:

Paris - if you want to add another day to Paris then by all means, especially if your husband is in to architecture (of all types), however Versailles could be a half-day trip in amongst those 4 days already in Paris if you can't fit it in (it doesn't take long to get out there, just depends on you as to how much time you spend there). You'll find getting to Chartres as well as Versailles might compromise your time in Paris, but play it by ear when you're in Paris (don't forget the controversial places like the Montparnasse Tower and La Defence as well as the more well-known buildings.).

Berlin - as per the others, definitely keep it at 4 days. It's a goldmine of architecture and culture. Here's a little aside to consider: how about a stop for a few hours in Dresden on the train between Berlin and Prague? It's completely rebuilt after the firebombing of WWII, but that in itself is an architectural feat!

Vienna - as per the boys, Vienna will provide so much to see so add a day if you can. But if not, jump on the #1 or 2 tram on the Burgring (circle road) for a first glimpse of the sights/buildings then jump off at your first place of interest on the next circuit around. After that you can head to places like Hundertwasserhaus (your husband will know about this for sure), St Stephans Dom (Cathedral) and the Musuem of Modern Art (part of the Museumsquartier or Museum Quarter).

Venice - the La Fenice (the Phoenix) opera house was rebuilt for a 3rd (or was that 4th!) time and opened in 2004 so that will be something off the beaten track to look inside. Also, go inside Santa Maria della Salute church for amazing frescoes by Titian and Tintoretto. And the Molin Stucky building is supposed to open as a Hilton (!) hotel in June this year, so it will be interesting to see what they've done with it after so many years under scaffolding.

Florence - I know you only have 3 nights (ie 2 full days) so suggesting trips to Pisa, etc will cut into your time there. Unless you desperately have to see the Tower (it's a half-day trip at most), I'd stick to Florence alone this time around.

Happy trails!