2 Months in Europe - Help Please!

[kalafortune]

So I have been planning for my 2 month trip to Europe (May 17 to July 12). I have already purchased some inter European flights and feel like I'm not sure what I am doing. I would like to visit some popular places, but also have the opportunity to go to more relaxing / quaint places. This is my plan so far.

New York City to London - May 18
London - 3 Days
Paris - 3 Days (Booked a Flight from Paris to Athens)
Greece - 10 Days (Not sure what to do or where to go)
Italy - 10 Days (Want to go to Naples, Rome, Florence, Venice)
Switzerland - 4 Days (Interlaken, Zurich, Lucerne, Geneva)
Austria - 2 Days (Innsbruck)
Germany - 4 Days (Munich, Dusseldorf)
Netherlands - 2 Days (Amsterdam)
Belgium - 3 Days (Brussels and Brugge)
Ireland - 7 Days (Flight from Brussels, Dublin and Killarney)
London - (Flight to Iceland)
Iceland - 7 Days (not sure what to do/see/stay)

I am wondering if I should go to Austria? Also, how long will it take me to go from the south of Italy to Switzerland. I estimated 10 days. Any suggestions would be welcomed! Is it worth trying to go to Sicily?

I am also going to try and book hostels early on, so help with that would be appreciated! Where should I go in Greece? I want less traveled to places - if possible.

[herrbert]

Welcome Kalafortune,

The three days in London and Paris are a little tight, both can do with one day more, in your casr this would reserving some days when you coe back to London, as you have a flight to catch in Paris.

So I would start with:

London - 2 days
Paris - 4 days

Greece - Stay in Athens for 2 or 3 days, the choice in Islands is big. You would have about 2 x 3 days to visit an Island. Reserve one day to get back to Athens, and take flight to Italy. (unless you can find a flight from the island you are staying on to Italy). I would choose Santorini (it is more touristic, than you might like) and one more unknown Island.

Ask yourself if you really want to see Naples, or do you want to see Pompeii. If that is the case, you can do Pompeii (passing Rome, as a daytrip)

Rome - 5 days
Florence - 3 days
Venice - 2 days.

Switzerland - 4 places in 4 days, is a little too optimistic I think. Choose 2 at the most. If you want to see mountains, then might consider Gimmelwald (as you are passing Interlaken, you might have time to see something there).

Innsbruck - 2 days will do. (It is worth it, but if you want to have some more days in other towns, it can be skipped).

Germany:
Munich 2 days is Okay if you stick to the city itself. If you want to see Neuschwanstein (a daytrip, which really needs a day), than you should make that 3 days.

Düsseldorf is an interesting choice, and although it is really close to where I live, and I like to go there for shopping, and concerts. I don't see it as a tourist attraction. (it has very good flight connections, so a cheap flight between Munich and Düsseldorf is a possibility. Instead of Düsseldorf, I would spend a day in Cologne.

Amsterdam can be done in two days, if you can be efficient and if you are able to arrive early enough on the first day.

Belgium, 3 days two cities is ok. Would you be staying in Brugge or in Brussels?

Ireland, as we still need to find a couple of days for London, you should consider doing this less days (4 or 5). And I think that is doable. Dublin is not that huge, that it needs a lot of time in my opinion. If you plan to get to Killarney, you could make a trip to Dingle, Tralee, the Ring of Kerry area. (would you fly back to London from Shannon?)

Iceland, is all about nature, you can do a glacier tour, you can go swimming in the Blue Lagoon, and ofcourse you have to see the geysers. I would stay in Reykjavik, but maybe it would be possible to book a tour for a couple of days, to see more or Iceland. A friend of mine, did a tour by car, and toured the whole Island. (Iceland, is still on my wish-list, so can't tell you more).

For Hostels and reviews (is that part ready yet???) you can take a look at the website, if you still have questions ask them here.

I didn't counted the days. Would still have some margin in the middle part or not?

[kalafortune]

Thanks for your advice!

So do you think that I should stay in Brussels or Brugge?

What is in Pompeii? I have heard that Rome is pretty crazy in the summer and I would like to avoid a lot of tourists. Would you suggest taking a plane from Greece to Italy or a boat? Also, besides Florence and Venice, what are some good towns/cities in Italy to stay at?

Thanks!

[me]

this may sound silly, but you might find it easier to find a cheap flight if you fly from Santorini (if you choose that island) to Munich, <per www.whichbudget.com, there seem to be flights from Greek Isles to several of the more northern European cities, but not to Italy> then rail to Innsbruck, Venice and on to the rest of your Italy destinations.

perhaps fly again, from Rome, or even Naples to Düsseldorf or Cologne. going on from there per your plan.

Switzerland is outrageously expensive. i don't really recommend it. you should get your fill of mountains in Innsbruck. two of your Swiss destinations: Zürich & Geneva are big cities with little charm. Interlaken & Luzern are more interesting places in Switzerland.

actually, most all of your destinations are big cities. many/most people here plan the same way. i mostly find much more charm in smaller cities & towns. Rome Barcelona & Vienna are exceptions, but mostly - i think - because they are all less important than they once were.

[Eagle]

kalafortune, Welcome! I have a few comments to add to the others.

I agree with herrbert in that you might benefit from a few changes in your Itinerary, perhaps something like this:

- New York City to London: even though the flight times are shorter than I have to contend with from the west coast, you'll probably still lose your first day because of flight times and time zone changes. That will reduce your London time - 2 days is just not enough IMHO.

- London (3 days): again, you might only have two days? You'll likely be a bit tired, so might not get to as many sights as you planned.

- Paris (3 days): unless you've been to Paris before, at least 5 days is usually a good "benchmark". Of course, I suppose this depends to some extent on what you want to see there?

- Greece (10 days): probably 2-3 days in Athens would allow you to see the sights, with the remainder spent on the islands. Crete might be a good choice, as well as one or two of the others.

-Italy (10 days): IMO that's simply not long enough to see the four cities you have listed. Rome, Florence & Venice could easily use that time.

I have heard that Rome is pretty crazy in the summer and I would like to avoid a lot of tourists

As you'll be travelling towards the end of the spring shoulder season and into the peak, EVERYWHERE you're visiting is going to be busy with tourists! I don't think there's any way you can avoid that.

- Switzerland (4 days): this is not realistic IMHO. Visiting four cities in four days means you're going to be travelling every day, and perhaps only spending part of a day in each city. Along with that, you may have to spend extra time finding lodgings or whatever, which will reduce your time even further. If you want a short visit to Switzerland, choosing two destinations or perhaps just Interlaken would provide an interesting look at the country (with a visit to Gimmelwald, of course!). As David suggested, it can be expensive but I feel it's still a great place to visit.

- Austria (2 days): two days is good, but you might also look at Vienna, Salsburg or Hallstatt (very scenic!).

- Germany (4 days): were you planning just "general touring" in each city, or did you have something specific in mind? If you were planning on using Munich as a base to see Neuschwanstein Castle or other sights in the area, you could easily use up four days there.

-Netherlands (2 days): sounds good?

- Belgium (3 days): in response to the question in your last Post concerning where to stay, Brugges seems to be the favourite here.

- Ireland (7 days): sounds good?

- Iceland (7 days): I don't have much information on Iceland, as it's a bit on the "periphery" for European travel.

What is in Pompeii?

The "unearthed" ruins of the city, which was buried by lava due to the eruption of Mt. Vesuvius (79 AD or thereabouts?) It's quite a large site, so some walking required. It can be done as a day trip from Rome (albeit a very long day!)

Also, besides Florence and Venice, what are some good towns/cities in Italy to stay at?

Given that you'll only be spending 10 days in Italy, you might want to leave Naples for a future visit and just concentrate on Rome and the north. Some of the usual favourites (in addition to the cities you listed) are Siena, Orvieto the Cinque Terre or Lucca.

Again, one thing to keep in mind is that even the "shoulder seasons" seem to be busy these days, so you might have some difficulty with lodgings unless you pre-book.

Good luck with your planning!!!

[kalafortune]

Thank you so much for your suggestions. I think I will skip southern Italy and perhaps fly from an island in Greece to Munich, and just tour northern Italy.

Here is my new plan:

Flight from New York City to London (Arrive in the morning on May 18th)
London - 3 Days - I was thinking of doing the double decker bus tour and just getting a feel for the city. I will probably do it in more detail on another trip.
Paris - 3 Days - - I want to see the Lourve and Effiel Tower. I am not much of a museum person, I would rather people watch outside or walk around the city.
Flight from Paris to Athens
Greece - 10 Days - See the tourist attractions in Athens for 2 days and then go to two different islands. I am going to try to fly from one of the islands to Munich.
Germany - 2 Days - I would like to visit a concentration camp.
Austria - 2 Days - I am planning to stay in Innsbruck and enjoy the scenery.
Italy - 10 Days - I am going to travel to Venice for 2 days, Rome for 2 Days, Cinque Terre for 4 days and Florence for 2 Days.
Switzerland - 3 Days - So I will just go to interlaken for a day (parasailing) and then stay in gimmelwald for 2 days.
Germany - 2 Days - I will travel to colonge for 2 days
Netherlands - 2 Days - Stay in Amsterdam
Belgium - 3 Days - Stay in Brugge for 2 nights and 1 night in Brussels.
Flight from Brussels to Dublin
Ireland - 7 days - I was thinking of doing a tour package. Can anyone recommend a good tour that is reasonably priced? I want to see a lot of Ireland but I don't want to rent a car. Has anyone done a paddywagon tour?

I was also thinking that I could go straight from London to Paris and spend 5 days in Paris and leave London for another time. What do you think? This plan also leaves me with 3 extra traveling days.

[me]

this will also sound odd, given what i said about Zürich, but there are flights from Zürich airport to Cologne/Bonn.

as expensive as that Germanwings flight may be, CHF78.86 - all but 8 Franks are tax - unless you have a pass it's probably cheaper than a train all the way to Köln.

BTW, Dachau - the KZ camp near Munich, as bad as it was, isn't a real representation of Nazi inhumanity. one needs to see the death camps in Poland, or elsewhere in the East, to get a real glimpse of the evil of the SS. Dachau, the only camp i've seen yet, was primarily a caamp for political prisoners. i've read it was kept relatively pretty for Red Cross inspections until the war.

- d

kalafortune said:

Switzerland - 3 Days - So I will just go to interlaken for a day (parasailing) and then stay in gimmelwald for 2 days.
Germany - 2 Days - I will travel to colonge for 2 days

[Eagle]

kalafortune, a few more comments, based on your revised Itinerary (presented in the same order):

> London - the Double Decker Bus tours are a good idea. I find them great to get an idea of the "highlights" in a few hours. Many of these have a "hop on / hop off" arrangement, so if you see something you're interested in you can at least have a look and catch the next Bus. Often the tickets are good for two consecutive days (this might vary between companies however).

> Paris - the Louvre is certainly worth a visit, but a few suggestions. First of all, it's far too LARGE too see the entire facility in one visit. You might want to concentrate on just one of the three wings, probably the Denon wing. As you're facing the Pyramid, that's the one on the right hand side. When you get inside (down one level), go to the large desk and get a map of the various parts of the wing, so that you'll have some idea where the most important works of art are located. The Mona Lisa and Venus di Milo are both in the Denon wing. Photos are only allowed in specific areas, so be sure to note where these are. One other point -- you might find it quicker and easier to access the Louvre by entering from the back entrance of the Richeliu wing, as it's just across the street from the Metro stop. This avoids standing in the queue by the Pyramid on the street level.

The Musee d'Orsay is also an awesome place to visit (it used to be a railway station and Hotel - the Grand Ballroom and Restaurant are magnificent!). It contains a large collection of impressionist art.

As far as the Eiffel Tower, be prepared to wait in a queue! The line-ups are a bit reduced at some times of the day. You might try very early in the morning or about supper time. If you want to go to the top level, there's an additional charge. Watch out for the Gypsies under the tower! There are also Double Decker Bus tours that leave from the area by the Tower.

One other suggestion! It would be highly advisable to get a Paris Museum Pass as it makes entry into many top sights so much easier (no waiting in line-ups for a ticket!). I believe you can buy this on-line, but I'd have to check. It is also available at Tourist Info offices in Paris (I believe there's one close to the old Opera building, near a Metro stop - would have to check on which station it's close to).

> Greece - if you're going to visit Crete, check out www.yhplakias.com - the most southerly Hostel in Europe.

> Germany - you indicated that you want to visit a Concentration Camp. Although as David mentioned, Dachau doesn't have the "intensity" of some of the others, it still provides a glimpse of the horrible conditions in those types of camps. It was the first (opened in 1933, I believe) and was used as the model and a "testing ground" for those that followed. While it didn't operate on the same scale as Auschwitz and some of the others, the same types of events took place at Dachau.

As you only have two days in Germany, you might want to base yourself in Munich and take a guided tour. I used Radius Tours, and highly recommend them! They have an office in the Munich train station, but it would be a good idea to reserve a spot straight away as the tours sometimes fill up quickly. Check their web site for details. I often find that having a "live" tour guide provides a greater amount of detail and a better idea of what took place in these locations.

> Austria - enjoy the scenery!

>Italy - it's unfortunate that you don't have more time available for Italy, as there is SO much to see there! I would probably reduce the Cinque Terre by one day, and add a day to either Rome or Florence?

One other suggestion - allow for "unexpected events", especially in Italy, as the trains are occasionally "delayed" due to labour disputes, etc. Again, watch out for the Gypsies, especially on the Metro! Wear a Money Belt!!!

If you're planning on visiting the two main Galleries in Florence (Accademia & Uffizi), reservations are highly recommended! Your Hotel should be able to make these for you, once you know exactly what days you'll be there.

Are you planning on visiting the Colosseum in Rome? Again, to avoid waiting in long queues there's a better way to obtain an admission ticket. I posted a note on that topic somewhere here, but if you need further information post another note.

>Switzerland - the scenery is fantastic! When in Gimmelwald, you might find it interesting to take the cable cars (four separate cars are required) to visit the Piz Gloria restaurant on top of the Schilthorn. It was used in the filming of the James Bond movie "On Her Majesty's Secret Service" (one of the older movies, but lots of action). It's a bit expensive, but a nice trip.

I provided a description in another Post here regarding the sequence you'll need to take to get to Gimmelwald from Interlaken. If you can't find it, post another note and I'll try to provide a link.

> Germany (Cologne) - sounds good!

> Netherlands (Amsterdam) - two days should be good.

> Belgium - your plans look great!

> Ireland - the only tour company that comes to mind is Rick Steves, however they are probably not within your budget, and also their Ireland tours are 14 days. You might check the official Irish tourist web site, as they may have some listed?

One other point to mention - be prepared for airport-style security at many of the Musuems (X-Ray machines, armed guards, etc.) Some facilities don't allow Backpacks, Purses, etc. and I belive the Uffizi also prohibits water bottles. Also, if you want to rent an Audio guide, it's necessary to leave a piece of Identification as a "security deposit" - I find that a Driver's license works well (I have an strong reluctance to part with my Passport for something like that).

Regarding your last questions, my preference would be too leave London on your Itinerary. If you need extra days, you could perhaps reduce a day in Greece, Ireland or Iceland?

Hope this helps. Your Itinerary is looking good!

[madamtrashheap]

Excellent advice from the others! I agree with Eagle, it's a shame you don't have more time for Italy, but at least you're going. Just make sure you plan your 2 days in Rome well so you don't miss out on things you really want to see. For example, unless it's the last Sunday of the month, the Vatican Museums (incl. the Sistine Chapel) are closed on Sundays and close early on Saturday afternoon. Check the new opening times and prices at www.vatican.va. So if you're there on a weekend, you'll have to time it well as the queues to get in are long at any time of year (well, except maybe February!). Plus, many museums in Europe have the quiet (ie closed) day on Monday, so make sure you haven't planned to go to any in Florence, Venice or Paris on a Monday (that is, have an extra day up your sleeve if possible). There are, of course, exceptions to this rule (Anne Frank Huis is open 7 days except Jewish holidays, Guggenheim in Venice is closed Tuesday, Louvre is closed Tuesday, etc), but you get the drift.

To tackle the Ireland tour question: Paddywagon are fun, cover some good areas and cities and carry mainly younger travellers, but all ages are welcome (the 6 day southern tour is probably your best choice www.paddywagontours.com/viewtour.php?id=2&&day=23&&month=02&&year=2007 ). Shamrocker (the Irish version of Haggis Tours) Tours www.shamrockertours.com/HTML2/RTG-GB-34.aspxare also good fun and cover great areas with good guides (look at the Ireland Rocker or Southern Rocker tours). The beauty of an organised tour is that you cover a lot of ground without having to drive yourself. But the down-side is not being able to spend more time in a place if you want to continue with the tour. Although both give you a good overview of the country and would suit you not wanting to rent a car. Plus they are more on the budget side of tours so will be in your price range. You should know, though, that although you don't have to, many evenings end up in the local pub (it is Ireland after all!), so I'm not sure if that will be an issue for you. Remember, pubs are social places so you don't have to drink to be in one - it's a great way to meet the locals and get to know your tour mates.

[kalafortune]

I was trying to decide between the 6 day southern Paddy Wagon tour or the 6 day all of Ireland tour. I am not sure if the all of Ireland tour would be too rushed, but it seems to cover most of the major sights. Advice appreciated! So I adjusted my itinerary to add more days in Italy. My new itinerary is as follows:

(May 18) Day 1: London
(May 19) Day 2: London
(May 20) Day 3: London
(May 21) Day 4: Paris
(May 22) Day 5: Paris
(May 23) Day 6: Paris (Evening flight to Athens)
(May 24) Day 7: Athens
(May 25) Day 8: Athens
(May 26) Day 9: Athens
(May 27) Day 10: Sifnos
(May 28) Day 11: Sifnos
(May 29) Day 12: Sifnos
(May 30) Day 13: Naxos
(May 31) Day 14: Naxos
(June 1) Day 15: Naxos
(June 2) Day 16: Santorini
(June 3) Day 17: Santorini
(June 4) Day 18: Santorini
(June 5) Day 19: Santorini (Evening flight to Rome)
(June 6) Day 20: Rome
(June 7) Day 21: Rome
(June 8) Day 22: Rome
(June 9) Day 23: Florence (Stop at Pisa)
(June 10) Day 24: Florence (Day trip to Siena)
(June 11) Day 25: Florence
(June 12) Day 26: Venice
(June 13) Day 27: Venice
(June 14) Day 28: Interlaken
(June 15) Day 29: Interlaken
(June 16) Day 30: Interlaken
(June 17) Day 31: Innsbruck
(June 18) Day 32: Innsbruck
(June 19) Day 33: Munich
(June 20) Day 34: Munich
(June 21) Day 35: Munich
(June 22) Day 36: Cologne
(June 23) Day 37: Cologne
(June 24) Day 38: Amsterdam
(June 25) Day 39: Amsterdam
(June 26) Day 40: Brugge
(June 27) Day 41: Brugge
(June 28) Day 42: (Morning flight to Dublin) Dublin
(June 29) Day 43: Paddy Wagon Tour of Ireland
(June 30) Day 44: Paddy Wagon Tour of Ireland
(July 1) Day 45: Paddy Wagon Tour of Ireland
(July 2) Day 46: Paddy Wagon Tour of Ireland
(July 3) Day 47: Paddy Wagon Tour of Ireland
(July 4) Day 48: Paddy Wagon Tour of Ireland
(July 5) Day 49: *Need to go from Dublin to London* (Flight to Iceland at noon)
(July 6) Day 50: Iceland
(July 7) Day 51: Iceland
(July 8) Day 52: Iceland
(July 9) Day 53: Iceland
(July 10) Day 54: Iceland
(July 11) Day 55: Iceland
(July 12) Day 56: Leave Iceland

[herrbert]

I see that decided to keep London and Paris in. Personaly I liked the suggestion you posted earlier, to leave London for another travel, but of course it's your trip.

For fine-tuning, some questions: Santorini, (although beautiful) in my opinion could do with one day less, but it also depends on when you would be traveling from Naxos to Santorini. If that would be on Day 16 (morning/early afternoon), than I would keep it.

I think it is more efficient to get from Rome to Florence, and than make the trip to Pisa. Personaly I would leave Pisa for what it is, because you will need the time for see the city of Florence.

Cologne can do with one day less. (might give you one day extra in Rome, or Florence).

[speedbird]

Surprised no one else has mentioned it, but if you are passing through Italy - it would be a great shame for you to pass on Cinque Terre. If you're looking for a spiritual retreat from the tourist loaded streets of Rome & Venezia... you could likely do with a few days here.

[madamtrashheap]

speedbird said:

Surprised no one else has mentioned it, but if you are passing through Italy - it would be a great shame for you to pass on Cinque Terre.

It's a lack of time thing that it's not been included - don't want to jam too much more in to a packed itinerary!


kalafortune, good to see that you're still getting to see Ireland - you'll enjoy the tour and the fact that you don't have to plan that part as it's done for you.

A point about the noon flight London-Reykjavik: look at the airport your departing from in London and try to fly from Dublin to there. Otherwise, leave plenty of time to get from your arrival airport to your departure one (morning rush hour is from about 7.30 to 9.30 in London, esp on the Tube). You could even look at a late flight from Dublin to London the evening you return to Dublin on your tour so you're in London with time to spare.

Also, Pisa is north-east of Florence so you'd get to Florence first before connecting trains to Pisa. The day trip to Siena will be worth it, but Herrbert's point about Pisa is valid. Either go there early one morning for a quick trip then spend the rest of the day in Florence or leave it out, but don't sacrifice time in Florence for Pisa.

One last thing - 6 days in Iceland will be amazing (you'll cover the whole island) but remember that food is expensive so you'll have to budget for that...or take lots of Pot Noodle from London for dinner! There are great tours you can take that cover the interesting parts of the island so do a little research and see what interests you, otherwise you might find that 6 days is too long and 3-4 suits better (leaving more time for Europe, etc). Here's another post on Iceland pretravel.proboards1.com/index.cgi?board=intinary&action=display&n=1&thread=7202&page=1 for some ideas or visit www.icetourist.is for some more information.