no nothing about uk, europe pls help

[1952aussie]

we leave aus arrive london mon 16th apr (5pm) day london with daughter,(lives in london)
17/18/19/20, hire car heathrow drive scotland (5 adults).20th or 21st drive ,fly or ferry to ireland(which would be best?)
21/22/23/24 or 25 drive ireland
back london around 25 leave 4 paris by morning train stay 26/27/leave 4 italy throught swiss alps may stay geneva the night maybe 29 30 train to italy will try venice florence pias lucca cinque terra rome naples
back to london before may 10 spend rest time london and surround fly out 19th may but like 2 see bit spain if poss
is this itinerary impossible is 2 much time scot, ireland no idea of distances over there compared to aust
would car hire be cheaper than train or fly got 5 weeks travel ???time

[me]

the subject line reminds me of the "Know Nothing" anti-immigrant movement in 19th century US!

with 5 people, it might be cheaper to drive a rental to Scotland. but, taking a car on a ferry isn't cheap!

also, do you need to go back to London between Ireland & Paris? it's probably easier/cheaper/faster to fly from Ireland to Paris.

renting a car is almost certainly more expensive. the advantage with driving is not being tied to schedules of transportation providers. [which can be limiting, especially when going to small towns]

- d

[madamtrashheap]

Hello again 1952aussie, found your first post as a reference ( pretravel.proboards1.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&n=1&thread=2952&page=1#1171192619 ) as had vague recollection that I'd written something recently about hiring cars/driving around UK/Ireland.

My learned friend David makes a valid point about the cost of car hire, however as I wrote in my previous post about this, I'd use a combination of driving (UK/Ireland) and trains in the other countries. The ferry from UK to, say, Dublin isn't too expensive to take a car with passengers (works out cheaper pp than flying), have a look here for info www.irishferries.com/fares/gbr_irl/index.shtml. Plus having a car in the UK and Ireland will allow you to explore out of the way but cool places at your own pace (ie don't have to schedule around trains that aren't always frequent in smaller places).

Just a point about the car (other than checking to see if your airline has fly/drive deals), make sure you get a larger one so you have room for 5 people and their luggage. Sounds simple, but unless you specify to the company you might end up with a regular sedan, or worse...a hatchback for 5 people! Hello sardine city and the quickest way to recreate National Lampoon's European Vacation! ;D. Not sure who you're flying with, but as I've said chech their offers/deals, or you can look at www.easycar.com if there's nothing with your airline.

As for the rest of your itinerary, Australia is a big place and the roads in some areas don't always allow for smooth travel. You'll find that the roads in the UK let you scoot along nicely, but around major cities you'll find traffic clogging some roads at rush hour and on weekends (Friday evening and Sunday eveing in particular). You'll be pleasantly surprised how long it doesn't take to get between cities, but as a guide, say you're driving London (you don't have to hire car at Heathrow, plenty of agents around city) to Edinburgh, that will take anywhere between 5-8 hours - completely dependent on traffic on theday. Have a look at www.viamichelin.com as they have a great system for plotting journeys and give distances, times and routes. This should give you an idea of the time it takes to drive places. Although note in Scotland in the Highlands, the roads are small and don't allow for a lot of overtaking (not a problem as you're too busy gazing at scenery!) so it takes a little longer than you think looking on a map.

You actually don't have a lot of time allocated to Scotland or Ireland (but what you have is find for a quick look) so you'll have to be selective as to where you go. As a guide for other places: 4 days in Paris is a good start, Cinque Terre 3 days, Florence needs 3-4 full days (day-trip to Pisa and Lucca or go on way from Cinque Terre), Venice 2, Rome 5 (allows for a day trip to Pompei), I'd skip Naples this time round unless you really want to see it, Spain - Barcelona 3 days, Madrid 3-4 (day trip to Toledo). These are ideal numbers of days in each place which will help you plot your route in the time that you have.

Book the Eurostar to Paris from London ahead of time and you'll get it for around GBP45 pp (seems a lot, but cheaper than getting to airport and flying). After than, you might want to list out how many days you're thinking of spending in the places you've listed to get an idea of how much time you have to play with and what is actually realistic. Don't discount night trains or flying on some of the longer routes either (cheap flights abound). I don't suggest driving everywhere in Europe as it will distract you from enjoying your part of the holiday (concentrating, dealing with different conditions, parking!), not all accomm has parking facilities, trains get you point-to-point with least amount of hassle (train network in Europe is excellent) and the areas you're wanting to travel to are well serviced by frequent trains.

Have a play with your timeframe in terms of listing the time you want in each city, then post the details and you'll find plenty of advice comes your way.

Happy planning!