21 DAYS IN ITALY -- HELP!

[dizzyfreedom]

Hi all, ;D

I finally booked my tickets and confirmed my dates to Italy. I need help/opinions/suggestions with the following itenirary. Please tell me if you think its too much and should cut out something or if any of those cities require more or less time. Also, any ideas on where to stay in these cities would help as well.

Rome -- 3 days
Positano/Pompeii/Capri -- 3 days
Florence -- 5 days
Pisa/Siena -- 3 days
Venice -- 5 days
Milan -- 2 days

One last thing, would you suggest buying train passes before we leave or just buying them there once we get there?

Much appreciation to all!!!

[Eagle]

dizzyfreedom, my preference would be to change the number of days in each city to some extent, perhaps something like this:

> Rome - 5 days

> Positano / Pompeii / Capri - 3 days

> Florence - 4 days

> Pisa / Siena - 3 days is OK, but Pisa is best as a day trip, or even just an afternoon to see the tower.

> Venice - IMHO 2 or 3 days would be good here. It will be interesting to see the opinions of the others on this point?

> Milan - my preference would be to eliminate Milan, unless you have a definite reason for visiting. I would use the time for Lago di Como or the Cinque Terre.

Regarding your question on the Rail passes, AFAIK you CAN'T buy Eurail Passes in Europe. They must be purchased outside of Europe. It would help to know where you're travelling from though?

The time I allotted in each city is somewhat approximate, as it's a bit difficult to be specific without knowing why you want to visit each city, and what your interests are? Also, your question regarding where to stay in each city -- are you intending to stay only in Hostels -- what do you have in mind?? Finally, what time of year will you be travelling in Italy??

Happy travels!!!

[madamtrashheap]

I'm right there with Eagle's suggestions on number of days in each place - was there any reason for spending 5 days in Venice? What time of year are you travelling? I'd go with 2 full days unless there is something specific you're going for (ie a festival, regatta, etc).

Pisa is a half-day trip from Florence (and hour by train one way) and Siena is in the opposite direction to Pisa from Florence, so can I suggest altering your order of cities to:
start Rome - Positano - Siena - Florence - Venice - Milan (I'm assuming you're flying out of Milan, so put it last).

One note on the trains - to add to Eagle's note about Eurail Passes (even for just one country they must be purchased outside Europe), make sure you're not travelling on peak days (ie Friday or Sunday) for some of your routes or you'll find yourself standing on trains (esp the Eurostar Italy routes). It might pay to book a day in advance for these ones, if you're taking the Eurostar trains.

Glad to see you've locked in the dates and have gotten underway with the planning since your last email - happy finalising!

[me]

is this new? i specifically remember buying a Germanrail pass at the Kreutzlingen station, just across the border, in Switzerland back in the 90's.

- d

madamtrashheap said:

One note on the trains - snip (even for just one country they must be purchased outside Europe),

[madamtrashheap]

Always thought that any "Eurail" pass could only be purchased outside Europe (has been the case each time I bought one). It's a different matter for passes for a country that aren't part of the Eurail brand, ie a national rail pass for eg. Italy, but then you don't always get the best deal, being a tourist rather than a resident and sometimes only residents are eligible for the travel/discount cards. This, of course, varies from country to country, without being specific.

dizzyfreedom said:

One last thing, would you suggest buying train passes before we leave or just buying them there once we get there?

Point-to-Point (P2P) tickets are different to "passes", as such.

[lia]

eagle said:

dizzyfreedom,
> Venice - IMHO 2 or 3 days would be good here. It will be interesting to see the opinions of the others on this point?
quote]
Ya, here I am! ;D can't see how you guys always say that more than 2 days in venice is too much. i think it's a magical city (note that i'm not saying this because it's my city - though i spent and still spend much time there, it's not!) and that you tend to think that the only thing worth a visit in venice is piazza san marco - well it isn't..it's a unique city in the world, it's got a magical atmosphere and you really can't say that you've been there if you've only seen st. mark's square. anyway, my question for dizzyfreedom is this: you're spending just 3days in pompei/capri/positano..aren't you going to naples?? as for the rest, ok, i agree with eagle (yeah, really! ) , i would skip milan too..i don't like it very much, though htere are things to see, actually..like the duomo, the castello sforzesco and san satiro's church, for example.

[herrbert]

Have to agree with the others, more time for Rome, and less for Pisa, Venice and Milan. Instead of Milan, I would consider traveling a bit further North, and spend a couple of days at one of the lakes. (lago di Como, lago di Garda or Lago Maggiore)

Rome -- 5 days
Positano/Pompeii/Capri -- 3 days
Siena - 2 days
Florence -- 4 days (daytrip to Pisa)
Venice -- 2-3 days
Lago di ..... -- 3 days

To answer Lia's question: Of course there is more to see, than the main touristic spots, and I think most of us here would love to discover some of them, but when you are traveling, you need to have some priorities. You can stay in a city longer, and get to know it better, or spend those days, in another city/town to see something of that area. In the end both options can be rewarding, but that up to the person that is traveling.

[dizzyfreedom]

WOW! Thanks so much for the feedback! We're flying into ROME on May 17th and flying out of Milan on June 7th. So, that's why I thought of adding 2 days there. But I can totally cut it down to 1 day and leave the next! Which by everyone's feedback it seems smarter?!

I also think we can cut down the Pisa/Siena portion. Thanks for the tip on going to Siena first and making Pisa a day trip!!!

As far as the Eurail passes, I guess you're all saying buy from here and try not to travel on Fridays or Saturdays right?

Finally, as far as where to stay, we were thinking a combo of Hostels and maybe splurge on a little villa somewhere. Any suggestions?

Much love and appreciation!

***REVISED***

Rome - 5 days
Positano/Pompeii Capri - 3 days
Siena/Pisa -- 2 days
Florence - 4 days
Venice - 5 days [we may meet some friends here and we'd like to go to those place only locals go to...]
Milan - 1 1/2 days

[pointofnoreturn]

I think that's very do-able. I hope you have a fantastic time!

[madamtrashheap]

dizzyfreedom, revised itinerary looks good - you'll be able to sneak day trips in as well as explore the main places well.

For Milan, make sure you book now (or as soon as the bookings are open) for ticketst to see The Last Supper. PONR will vouch for this ;D as they sell out fast, and in June you'll be competing with tour groups and individuals. The website is www.cenacolovinciano.it/html/eng/smgrazie.htm & bookings email [e-mail] or tel: [phone]. It's not the only thing to see in Milan (the Duomo is high on the list), but it's one thing that most people want to see there. Some other ideas: wander through Galleria Vittorio Emanuele, see what's on at La Scala (worth it just for the interior) and do a little shopping - window or real - before dinner.

I agree with you lia, there's much more to Venice than Piazza San Marco and it is a magical place (I fall in love with it again in Winter after shunning it in Summer!) - my two favourite areas to wander in are Castello and La Giudecca (great restaurants/trattorie). But many of those travelling to places for the first time have the "big ones" to see on their lists and run out of time to discover the hidden treasures and less visited areas of some cities - the perfect excuse to go back! There's no reason why we can't suggest lesser knonw sights in cities - share the knowledge - but with Venice it's an issue of accommodation (expense), food (expense) and time, that's why you may find shorter time allocated to your city.

For accommodation, you have a raft of places to choose from, and a villa near Siena might be good, but you'll need your own transport (unless a bus route is close by). Here are some to get you started, but it will depend on your budget and availability:

Rome - Alessandro Palace (a fave here); The Beehive (another fave but no kitchen and books out fast; Hotel Panda (right near the Spanish Steps and a bargain)
Positano/Pompeii Capri - If you stay in Positano, you can splurge and stay on the beach at the Hotel Covo dei Saraceni, but if you want something a little less luxurious then try Hotel La Reginalla ( en.venere.com/hotels_positano/spiaggia_grande/hotel_la_reginella.html?ref=34989; still has satin everywhere!) or Casa Albertina (http://en.venere.com/hotels_positano/spiaggia_grande/hotel_casa_albertina.html?ref=34989 ) or Villa Rosa (http://www.villarosapositano.it/, good location, not all rooms great). For Hostels, try Hostel Brikette (http://www.brikette.com/ ). You'll find most accommodation in Positano isn't cheap, so make sure you get one with a view!
Siena/Pisa -- in Siena for a villa/farmhouse try Fattoria di Cavaglioni or Agriturismo La Selva (Agriturismo places are very popular in Italy). For hostels/hotels try Le Camerine di Silvia (guesthouse), Piccolo Palio (hotel), Residence Paradiso (hostel near the bus station), Cannon d'Oro (hotel) or Chiusarelli (hotel). Hopefully the others will have suggestions too.
Florence - lots to choose from; near the train station are: Pensione Scoti, Florence (great painted rooms in a 15th C palazzo across from the Palazzo Strozzi on via Tornabuoni), Leonardo House Hostel (dorm room), Luna Rossa Gusthouse, Pensione Canada (like a B&B), Hotel Ghibellina (budget hotel, good location), Hotel Fiorita (budget hotel near station, pretty courtyard, security gate and friendly dog!), Florence Room B&B (good location). Over the river near Santo Spirito are places like Soggiorno Pitti (good value hotel) or Hotel Vecchia Firenze (budget hotel). If you want hotels, look at Albergo Firenze Florence (right in the centre of town), Hotel Bigallo, (located right in the centre of town, good prices too. The bells of the Duomo will wake you every morning which is kind of cool, even if they do start at 6am! I used to live behind this hotel but never went in, shame), Hotel Della Nazioni (just across from the train station), Viva Hotel Capitol (behind Santa Croce church on other side of town to station, but still good location), Hotel President (not in the centre of town, rooms are basic, but top floor has great views of city and busses run into centre regularly or you can stroll for 15-20mins and get there), Hotel San Lorenzo (10min walk to city centre).
Venice - Alloggi Gerotto Calderan, B&B Rota, Hotel Gallini (not glamourous but good location), Hotel Arione (near station), Locanda Giovanni e Paolo (more residential palace, but only short walk to St Mark's Square), Haven Hostel (halfway between the station and St Mark's and on the Grand Canal).
Milan - lots of hotels near the train station, but some nice ones in town too: try Hotel Delle Nazioni (basic but good location), Hotel Monopole (v close to train station and easy tram or walk to town, stayed here 5 years ago), Hotel San Tomaso (close to station and 15min walk to centre) or Hostel Peiro Rotta (miles out of town, cheap but basic).

Hope that helps with the planning! Not long to go!

[lia]

good, madamtrashheap, but venice is not my city - i could say it almost is, but not really. maybe someday.. ;D as for your point about the prices, you're right; anyway, there are some agencies that have luxury apartments in palaces on the grand canal, but also nice little apartments that, if you're going with some frineds, you get to share the price and they turn out to be rather cheap. check www.veniceapartments.it ..then, for hostels/hotels/B&B, i saw some in nice positions on www.flashbooking.it - like the san geremia hotel, the locanda acquavita or the adua hotel. anyway, dizzyfreedom, you trip looks great - milan: the pinacoteca di brera. and a curiosity on pompei: the indication to the "lupanare" (brothel) area bit hidden, because people didn't want the others to know that they were going there; there are some "phallic indications" though, (on the walls and on the street pavement) that indicate the way..so, if you see someone looking at the floor while walking, this is the reason

[madamtrashheap]

lia said:

and a curiosity on pompei: the indication to the "lupanare" (brothel) area bit hidden, because people didn't want the others to know that they were going there; there are some "phallic indications" though, (on the walls and on the street pavement) that indicate the way..so, if you see someone looking at the floor while walking, this is the reason

It's like a picture map! Just check with the site that this part is open again as they were doing restoration/excavation on the brothel area (and other sections) last year so it would be worth finding out if it's open again, although Pompei has lots to see regardless.

[lia]

Pompei's brothel area is open again - as far as i saw on the site (www.pompeiisites.org). anyway yes, sure.. it's not the only thing to see there, it's just out of curiosity - though it's a quite important part of the culture of those times; there are many things in pompei referring to the sexual life (like the fresco in the pitti's palace entrance, for example). i know it may seem a bit strange, but it's like that..and don't think i'm some kind of maniac, it's just that it was part of my studies! have a great trip dizzyfreedom!!!

[me]

for business??? ;D

sorry, couldn't resist.

lia said:

Pompei's brothel area is open again

[Eagle]

lia,

can't see how you guys always say that more than 2 days in venice is too much. i think it's a magical city

I didn't mean to suggest that it wasn't a good idea to stay in Venice longer than 2 days. Certainly, it is a magical city and there's lots to see, especially if one wants to visit Murano, Burano or even areas in the Veneto.

However, given the time constraints of this particular Itinerary I felt that spending 5 days in Venice was a bit excessive, as there are other areas in that region that would provide a more "rounded" travel experience. For example, if I had to choose between Venice, Milan or Lago di Como (specifically Varenna), I would choose Varenna without a doubt! I also found Venezia to be noticeably more expensive than (for example) Firenze, so if travel budget is a concern then spending less time in Venezia might be advisable.

dizzyfreedom, I note that you're still allocating five days in Venice. As it appears that you have a specific reason for that length of time, I'm sure you'll enjoy it and you'll have a great time. I just wanted to provide some clarification on my reasons for suggesting only two days.

With regard to lodging choices in Siena, have you narrowed that down yet? The Hostel is a bit "out of the way" so you might consider an Affitacamere or budget hotel. You might have a look at www.albergobernini.com/index.html to see if it might fit your needs. The reservation system is a bit different, but the family that own the Albergo are wonderful! It's also within easy walking distance of the Bus station and the other local attractions.

Cheers all!!!