bburesh
Full Travel Member
Posts: 10
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Post by bburesh on Mar 29, 2007 12:59:43 GMT -5
A buddy and I are traveling over to Europe this upcoming summer and we are starting to plan our route. We are needing some help with the destination and which cities in the countires are best. We are arriving in London on May 16 and Leaving on June 13. We are going to stay in London and surrounding towns for a few days then go on over to Paris and start using our Eurail pass. We are planning on getting the 21 day Global pass. These are the countries we are interested in going to.
Spain
Switzerland
Italy
Austria
Czech Republic
Germany
Netherlands
and then end back in Paris
I know we cant hit all these countries but we dont know which cities are best in each country or even what countries are must sees. Like Madrid or Barcelona? Berlin or Munich? If anyone can help I would greatly appreciate it!
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ghady
Senior Travel Member
Posts: 101
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Post by ghady on Mar 29, 2007 13:23:45 GMT -5
the czech republic seems like it's too far off.. i'm planning a eurotrip for the summer too (mine'll be 22 days), and i really wanted to see prague and zurizh and vienna, but then i realized that it's too out of the way. is this your first eurotrip? if so, i'd suggest sticking to the better known places (such as spain, italy, germany, holland, and paris and london obviously).. remember that's there's a LOT to see in a lot of these countries, and even though 21 days seems like a lot, it really isn't.. also, you need to decide on what cities to see.. you can't just go to ITALY.. choose what you want to do.. again, if this is your first eurotrip, you can't miss out on rome (and barcelona etc...) don't forget you also need to plan how to get from country to country. trains usually take too long; budget flights (ryanair.com, clickair.com, vueling.com, easyjet.com, transavia.com for the netherlands) are much faster. since you're only gonna be there for 21 days, try to rethink the eurail pass and just buy p2p (point-to-point, as in tickets that take you from city to city, which you can check online at www.voyages-sncf.com for france, www.trenitalia.com for italy, and www.bahn.de/p/view/international/englisch/international_guests.shtml) tickets, because train tickets take a LONG time...and you won't be in europe for too long. if it helps, here's what my itinerary looks like. it has a lot of the places you're seeing: germany: berlin: 2 nights netherlands: amsterdam: 2 nights germany: stuttgart: 2 nights france: paris: 3 nights france: lyon: 1 night frace: marseille: 1 night (i had to do this for the sake of synchorizing seeing a friend in lyon and making it to a plane in marseille on time) spain: barcelona: 4 nights italy: rome: 4 nights italy: amalfi coast: 3 nights ...and even with all this, i still don't think that 2, 2, and 3 nights is enough for berlin, amsterdam, and paris, but i had to do it this way cuz i'll traveling with a buddy of mine for the first 11 days, and he's taking courses during the summer term in college.. so stick with the "commercial" locations if this is your first time, but if you can find the time for one of czech, austria, and switzerland, do.. hope this helps.. |
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bburesh
Full Travel Member
Posts: 10
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Post by bburesh on Mar 29, 2007 14:45:23 GMT -5
Ok so I started to look at cheap flights throughout Europe rather than buying a Eurail. I have been looking on RyanAir and its saying flights from Paris to Barcelona for 14 Euros. Is that right? I never purchased a ticket in Europe so I do not know what kind of prices I should be looking for! And this is my second time to Europe but the first was only to Paris and London. The places we have questions about are:
Barcelona or Madrid
Rome, Florence, or Venice
Muich or Berlin
What city in Switzerland?
And everyone has told us that we have to go to Prague so we want to add that in there sometime.
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Post by WillTravel on Mar 29, 2007 15:31:48 GMT -5
If you're interested in the flights, buy them now - they're almost certain to get more expensive. With Ryanair, consider that when you add taxes and fees to that, the ticket price will likely be 50 Euros or more, which is still not bad. But Ryanair uses far out airports on both sides of this, so you then need to add another 25 Euros or so for bus transport. Consider these flight options directly from BCN, and to convenient Paris airports: www.whichbudget.com/en/cheapflights.php?from=BCN |
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Post by me on Mar 29, 2007 15:35:29 GMT -5
Madrid is great, but, imho, Barcelona is more interesting. another on here with much more Spain travel than i finds Madrid more impressive. if you can only do one Italian city, Rome is the one! Florence is second, by an order of magnitude, and Venice is 3rd. Munich vs. Berlin depends on your interests. Berlin is more historical, political, cultural. Munich has better beer halls, but it also has some very impressive museums: the Deutschesmuseum is amazing! Swiss cities are expensive and rather impersonal. if you go to Switzerland at all, smaller places are better: Gimmelwald and the like. [the train up to the Jungfraujoch is very expensive, but the best mountain views i've ever seen!] i've never been, but others here swear by Mountain Hostel in Grindelwald, Switzerland. <despite similar names, Gimmelwald & Grindelwald are places about 20 odd miles apart, near the Jungfrau, in Switzerland> Prague would fit well between Munich & Berlin, actually. or, you could go there from whichever one you choose to do. - d Barcelona or Madrid Rome, Florence, or Venice Muich or Berlin What city in Switzerland? And everyone has told us that we have to go to Prague so we want to add that in there sometime. |
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ghady
Senior Travel Member
Posts: 101
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Post by ghady on Mar 29, 2007 16:55:03 GMT -5
a professor of mine told me to avoid madrid; that it was a horrible, hot place...and that its only significance is that it's in the exact center of spain.. dunno how true that is, but it IS a land-locked city, so there are no beaches....as opposed to barcelona, where the beaches are plentiful.. add prague. yes, im only saying that because it wont fit in my plans and i'll be living vicariously through you, but all my friends have been telling me that it's a wonderful city.. i agree with david, definitely rome.. though i've never been there, it's still the most important city in the history of the western civilization.. how many days do you want to spend in each city? for hostels, go to www.hostelworld.com and look. also, ask around these boards in the accomodation section. as for the budget flights, sometimes they may not work PERFECTLY, but it'll work out in the end.. i'll give u an example from sthg i just went thru while planning: i need to get to barcelona from france, where i'll be staying in lyon... i couldn't find any direct flights from lyon to barcelona, only lyon to madrid.. but i did find a flight from marseille to barcelona, marseille being just south of lyon.. so, i decided to get on a train form lyon to marseille and plane it from there.. i didnt choose the lyon--madrid--barcelona route bcs id lose like 8 hrs of decent beachtime in barcelona that way.. you'll probably go thru a lot of those, but everything has an answer, and if you get stuck, just ask.. |
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Post by herrbert on Mar 29, 2007 17:46:30 GMT -5
a professor of mine told me to avoid madrid; that it was a horrible, hot place...and that its only significance is that it's in the exact center of spain.. dunno how true that is, but it IS a land-locked city, so there are no beaches....as opposed to barcelona, where the beaches are plentiful.. As I guess David was talking about me ...  I will answer. In July and August, yes Madrid will be terrible hot. (and even the people who live their think it is too hot to visit Madrid during those months.) But a visit in May or early June is perfect !!! To be frank I think you professor is talking absolute rubbish. If yuo want beaches, then you shouldn't go to Madrid, that's true, but it is the historical center of the country, and one of the most vibrant cities in Europe (at least it is since Franco died). If you want to party Madrid is the place to be (together with Berlin) Besides that it is a beautiful city, with the most friendly people that I've met in a major city. Also Madrid is much more the real Spain, and especialy if you take the time to get out of the city, you will discover some beautiful towns in the neighborhood. Of course I always keep nagging everybody to at least see Toledo (the old town is a gem), and when possible Segovia, but there are places like Aranjuez, Chinchon and Alcala to be discovered. And of course, the food and the music is briljant (but I have to add that's also true for the rest of Spain). Gosh, I love that city. And yes, Ghady. there is a spot on Sol (one of the squares) that is presumed to be the exact middle of Spain. But then again I never loved beaches. (I am bored within the hour) If you have the chance, visit both cities, as both are unique, and both are only seperated by a 20 euro quick flight by Vueling Airlines. For me the choice between Berlin and Munich is easy. I would choose for Berlin. It has so much more to offer, that suits my interests. (history, architecture, arts & culture) Also note that Flying from Paris with RyanAir, it would mean a transfer of more than an hour to Beauvais, as that is where they fly from. (If you want to fly Paris - Barcelona, you would in fact be facing 2 transfers of more than an hour, as they will fly into Girona). Check Vueling instead for flying to and from Spain. There are dozens of companies in Europe to provide you with flights (so don't concentrate too much on RyanAir and Easyjet). If you need help for suggestions, feel free to post them here. |
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Post by Eagle on Mar 29, 2007 18:57:14 GMT -5
bburesh, welcome! Before you make ANY decisions on using rail vs. air transportation, some definite Itinerary planning is important!
Trains don't necessarily take "too long", this depends mostly on the specifics of each trip. In many cases, travel by train is the easiest and quickest method. A few important points to remember -- often the budget airlines use out-of-the way airports, so the extra time and costs of travel to and from the airports has to be factored in. In addition, there's the waits for check-in and security and the hassles of ever increasing limits on baggage weights. Also, keep in mind that tickets with budget airlines are usually non-refundable and non-changeable, so this is somewhat more restrictive in terms of flexibility. As one of our members here found out recently (see the post marked "Disaster!!!" for details) the flight times can sometimes be arbitrarily changed also. Most trains arrive and depart from the city centres, so this is by far a more convenient travel method, and if fast trains are used (ie: TGV in France), the time difference between rail and air is insignificant.
As you're starting in London and ending in Paris, it appears that you're using "open jaw" flights. Excellent!!!
IMHO you will need to eliminate several of the countries from your list, as it's not going to be possible on a 21 day trip to see all of them. I would suggest three or perhaps four countries. Due to the distances involved, I would suggest Spain be left for a future visit.
If you could provide a bit of information on what types of sights you're interested in seeing, it would be easier to recommend some cities. Based on the list in your last post, a few comments:
> Barcelona or Madrid - I would leave Spain for next time (sorry herrbert and David!).
> Rome, Florence, or Venice - given the duration of your trip, Rome and Florence would be my choices. The Cinque Terre is also fantastic, but not sure if you'll have time for that?
> Munich or Berlin - due to the geographical proximity to other destinations, I would suggest Munich.
> What city in Switzerland? - my first choice would be the small community of Gimmelwald (not to be confused with Grindelwald), which is close to Interlaken. It's a big favourite here!
Again, given the short time frame of your trip it's probably best to save Prague for a future visit ("assume you will return"). Keep in mind you'll be travelling in summer (peak tourist season!) so Europe will be crowded, and you'll need to allow for "unexpected delays".
With only 21 days for travelling, your trip will need to be planned VERY efficiently, so that you don't waste either time or money. If you haven't been to Europe before, I would highly recommend reading the Rick Steves book Europe Through The Back Door, as it's an essential "pre-read".
Also, with regards to your Eurail Pass, you can buy these from the home page of this site. The cost is the same as elsewhere, and it helps to sustain our efforts here.
Good luck with your planning!
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Post by madamtrashheap on Mar 29, 2007 19:17:55 GMT -5
I read ghady's note on Madrid and immediately thought of you herrbert!  Another point on Ryanair, the airports they fly to/from aren't always in the town that's named. For example, their hub in Barcelona is actually in Girona, about an hour north of the city, so don't always look to them first, there are many other choices. Also, getting to Prague isn't that much of an issue as you could fly there from one of your other destinations once you've decided the cities you'd like to visit. I had a bit of a play with days in cities from your wish list and came up with a few choices: 1. fly Paris to Madrid, stay 4 days (use Vueling, ***or fly Paris to Barcelona, stay for 3-4 days*** fly to Rome from either Madrid or Barcelona, stay 5 days (use Vueling or Alitalia) train Florence, stay 3 days fly Florence to Prague, stay 3-4 days (Meridiana does this route) train Prague to Berlin, via few hours stop in Dresden and stay in Berlin for 3-4 days. fly back to London (choice of airlines such as EasyJet, Air Berlin or Ryanair and even British Airways does specials on this route, check prices) NOTE: do you have to go back to London, open-jaw tickets are worth looking in to. 2. fly Paris to Madrid or Barcelona fly Madrid or Barca to Rome fly Rome to Basel then train to Gimmelwald, etc. (EasyJet fly this route) fly Basel to Prague train Prague to Berlin via Dresden. But as you see, you won't be able to spend the ideal amount of time in each place due to your own time constraints. See what works best for you and let us know what you come up with. EDIT - just saw that Eagle posted while I was typing - excellent advice to take on board. |
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Post by me on Mar 29, 2007 21:06:07 GMT -5
the fairly short time it would take to get from Paris to London make me ask "why bother with open jaw here?" if the added cost of open jaw is more than the price of a flight (or, Eurostar train ticket, in this case) it's a waste to spend extra on open jaw tix with those two. a better place to do open jaw would be, for example, fly in at Oslo, out at Rome.
if your 1st destination is London, anyway, you can do "open jaw" on the cheap by buying a round trip to London, plus a low cost one way flight to London from your last stop. [if you do this, i'd suggest that you leave some of London to be explored before your flight home. the low cost airline could have a flight delay - possibly as much as days - causing you to miss the return flight from London to home. as missed flight can be expensive.]
an exception here is if there isn't a high fee for open jaw.
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ghady
Senior Travel Member
Posts: 101
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Post by ghady on Mar 30, 2007 2:30:06 GMT -5
ahh.. well, i should probably tell my professor that she was quite mistaken.. hmm, my bad  bburesh, have you and your friend decided on a final itinerary? |
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Post by herrbert on Mar 30, 2007 3:24:21 GMT -5
I have to agree with Eagle, and like to add that anything up to 3-4 hours is usualy done by train faster. If a train takes longer than that it is worth looking into planes. (unless these train would be really expensive).
Flying will give you one big afvantage, and that is that you can make itinerary, you can't with sticking to trains. almost every destination in Europe is reachable in 3 hours of flight (5 hours, incl. check-in/bagageclaim/transport). Basicly Flying London-Berlin, or London - Athens, doesn't matter too much in time.
For Berlin and Munich: There are so many budget flights getting to/from Berlin, that I think you don't have to leave it out, if you would prefer Berlin over Munich.
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Post by me on Mar 30, 2007 11:21:01 GMT -5
just took a look at train schedule, because one must change 3 times, and part of the trip is on a bus, it takes at least more than an hour - as much as nearly 2 hours, to travel this short distance. i ask if there might be direct bus service between the two? - d Gimmelwald & Grindelwald are places about 20 odd miles apart, near the Jungfrau, in Switzerland |
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Post by thebalderdasher on Mar 30, 2007 14:35:47 GMT -5
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Post by me on Mar 30, 2007 15:45:33 GMT -5
my mistake. (it happens more often than i'd like) as i explained above, i've never been to the Mountain Hostel.
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I will answer.
