First trip to Europe Itinerary

[sd21]

Ill be 17 turning 18 in a quaple months when I depart. I will be travelling with a quaple friends for some of the trip and the other parts alone.

I will most likely stay longer or shorter depending on how much I enjoy it in each destination.

Fly to Paris

Paris 3 nights

Train to Brussels

Brussels 2 nights

Train to Amsterdam

Amsterdam 4 nights

Train to Hamburg

Hamburg 2 nights

Train to Berlin

Berlin 2 nights

Train to Prague

Prague 3 nights

Train to Munich

Munich 2 nights

Train to Vienna

Vienna 3 nights

Train to Budapest

Budapest 3 nights

Train to Venice

Venice 2 nights

Train to Rome

Rome 4 nights

Train to Naples

Naples 2 nights

Train to Milan

Milan 2 nights

Train to Marseille

Marseille 2 nights

Train to Barcelona

Barcelona 3 nights

Train to Gibraltar

Gibraltar 2 nights

Train to Lisbon

Lisbon 3 nights

Train to Porto

Porto 3 nights

Flight back to Paris

Fly home

Could I get some advice on possible a better route or more places I could visit. I have a lot more time to stay there too. I have found Paris looks like a good starting point and return point due to its location and roundtrip airfare. But I could always change. I am looking forward to your feedback and suggestions it would be great.

Thanks

[me]

Brugge might be better than Brussel, per others here who've visited both.

Vienna rates more time than Budapest, imo.

Florence would prolly be better than Milan. also, you can fly from Pisa (near Florence) to Girona (near Barcelona) and miss that *very* long train ride (20+ hours) across southern France.

Madrid & Seville are two places in Spain that are also worthy of visits. from Seville, you could go to Lagos, Portugal. a favorite here. from Lagos, there's transport to Lisbon. [the Train from Gibraltar to Lisbon is crazy long - 25 hours with 5 changes!]

i hope these ideas are of some use to you. good luck in your planning! [i've also enjoyed the planning part of my trips]

[madamtrashheap]

To add to David's advice, unless you have a specific interest in Hamburg, you could save a little time by taking the night train from Amsterdam to Berlin (goes through either Brussels or Cologne) or even better you could fly (with Transavia). The reason I mention this is that Berlin needs 3 days to see and experience everything.

You also haven't left much time in Paris. In fact, 3 nights will give you only 2 full days of sightseeing (with a bit of time either side depending on flight/train times) which is not enough to see much.

Rome needs all the time you can give it. You could also look at flying from Rome to Barcelona rather than back tracking by train, or back to Florence for a flight, and go Venice, Florence, Naples, Rome for Italy. Again, that depends how important Marseille is to your schedule. I would also like to see you insert Florence in favour of Milan into your itinerary.

Throw these into the mix with David's notes and see what you come up with. I see that you want to be flexible in terms of staying longer or shorter in places, just remember that this may be determined by accommodation availability, especially in the busy season.


Again, we aren't sure of your interests so it's difficult to judge which cities deserve more time in terms of what you'd like to see/do.

[herrbert]

I agree with most things said so far.

I would change the number of night between Amsterdam and Berlin. Amsterdam is pretty small, so you can see most there is to see in 2 days, but Berlin is a lot bigger, so you need more then just 2 days.

Going to Marseille, will indicated two long trainrides, (8-9 hours to get there, and approx. the same to get from Marseille to Barcelona. Personaly i would skip Milan and Marseille in favour of more time in some of the other cities.

I would skip Gibraltar (unless you like the novelty value of it), and replace it by Madrid or Valencia, from both places it easy enough to get a cheap flight (check Vueling Airlines, first) to Lisbon.

[sd21]

I could skip Milan and Marseille, I was not aware of a 20 hour train ride..So I take it theres not much in Gibraltar or what because it sounds like a neat place to go to.

[me]

Gibraltar is an interesting place. a bit of UK sticking out from southern Spain. [they use UK£ there, not €] not sure it's worth a major detour, though.

when i went with my parents, in 1999, we made the mistake of driving our rental into the colony. [yes, per UK law, Gibraltar is a colony!] the Aznar government, wanting UK out of the Rock, maintained major delays at the Gibraltar/Spain border. it took moments to drive from Spain into Gibraltar, but hours to cross back into Spain.

i've read that the Osama bin Shoemaker government has ended this delay. don't know if that's true.

sd21 said:

I could skip Milan and Marseille, I was not aware of a 20 hour train ride..So I take it theres not much in Gibraltar or what because it sounds like a neat place to go to.

[Eagle]

sd21, I pretty much agree with the others in that a few changes would be a good idea.

in a quaple months

I'm assuming you mean "in a couple of months"?

A few additional comments (presented in point form for brevity):

- Paris: I couldn't tell from your Profile where you're located, but keep in mind that if you're flying from North America you'll lose a day in flight and due to time zone differences. I would definitely increase the time in Paris to four or five days, NOT including flight time.

- Brussels: as mentioned, most here find Brugges a more interesting destination. Your choice?

- Amsterdam: have to agree with the others in that you might want to cut that down to perhaps two days.

- Hamburg: unless there's a particular reason for stopping here, I would drop it in favour of some of the other cities.

- Berlin: definitely, more time is needed here!

- Munich: if you're planning on seeing the Castles, Dachau or other sights in the area, you might want to allot a few more days to Munich.

- Rome: definitely, MORE TIME for Rome! There is so much to see! I would tend to drop Naples and if you're interested in Pompeii or whatever do that as a day trip from Rome.

- Milan: IMHO it would be a good idea to drop Milan from the list, unless you have some compelling reason to go there. Instead, you might want to consider adding three or more days to visit Florence, perhaps three days or so for the Cinque Terre (fantastic spot!) and perhaps Siena or other areas of Tuscany? Also, you're "backtracking" from Naples to Milan which is not too efficient. One possibility would be to visit Florence, C.T. and possibly Tuscany on your way to Rome, and then fly to Spain?

- Gibraltar: again, I agree with David and the others. Unless there's some particular reason to go there, I would add some time in the other cities and plan to return later. At 18 years old, you won't have the option of renting a vehicle, so you'll have to rely on public transport to get there.

You might find it beneficial to book "open jaw" flights so that you don't have to return to Paris for your flight home. While these might be a bit more expensive than a standard "return" flight, these often save both time and money in the overall picture. Speak with a travel agent in your area to find out what the costs will be.

You didn't indicate in this Post the total time you have available for the trip. Adding up the days you've listed shows about 47 days. Even though you plan on using budget airlines for some parts, you'll need to consider "travel days" also (which you can work out in more detail once you've finalized the order of cities to some extent).

As a general rule, don't try to see too much of Europe in one trip, especially on the first visit. "Assume you will return".

Good luck with your planning! Cheers!!!

[sd21]

Ill have about 6 free months so I can spend all the time I want there. I am from Vancouver..The cheapest europeon flight from here is London then Paris then Amsterdam and Frankfurt. I would like to see a lot while there. I have a quaple more questions

Is making the trip to Greece worth it?

Is Budapest worth seeing?

What about Copenhagen?

Is it also worth to go up to Sweden and Finland?

Is there any other Eastern Europeon destinations that are a must see?

Thanks

[world2002traveler]

sd21 said:

Ill have about 6 free months so I can spend all the time I want there. I am from Vancouver..The cheapest europeon flight from here is London then Paris then Amsterdam and Frankfurt. I would like to see a lot while there. I have a quaple more questions

Is making the trip to Greece worth it?

Is Budapest worth seeing?

What about Copenhagen?

Is it also worth to go up to Sweden and Finland?

Is there any other Eastern Europeon destinations that are a must see?

Thanks

I would definately go to Prague, and Budapest, and Slovokia,
as well as Greece. I have never been to Greece, and everytime
I go abroad I say I'll go the next time. I will plan on that
on my next trip. I have not been to any of the scandinavian
countries. But I would also make a plan to see one of them the
next time, I don't think you need to see all of the scandinavian
countries. I would pick just one, but that's just my opinion.

Good luck and enjoy!!

WT ;D

[herrbert]

Although the Scandinavian countries are expensive, and therefor not a regular in a lot of itineraries showed here. I have to disagree with Worldtraveler. All these countries have their own unique attractions, are are different from eachother.

Denmark: the flat Holland look-alike, with more sea. Perfect for biking (wind)
Norway: the fjords, the mountains, nature and some beautiful cities make it a gem
Finland: the perfect mix between tradition and modern life, but without mountains, but with a lot of smaller hills, and of course millions of lakes, and a beautiful cluster of small islands on the Southern coast.
And Sweden: Well everything in between.
Iceland: Unique in landscape, people, everything. (but I still have to investigate it for myself)

All in all, I don't think that visiting just one of these countries, will give you a good picture about all of them. If you have the time and the budget, I would reckon you should visit Finland and Norway, and in both countries see more than just the capitals. Although Stockholm is worth a visit.

From Helsinki you could make a daytrip to Tallin (Estonia), or maybe stay there a little longer. Copenhagen didn't make such a big impression on me, maybe because I saw so many things, that remind me of Holland. (If it wasn't for the language, and the different money ... it could have been Amsterdam, the Hague of Delft)

[sd21]

I may add in Finland or Sweden

Is there any other intresting destinations in eastern Europe that would be worth it?

[herrbert]

sd21 said:

I may add in Finland or Sweden

Is there any other intresting destinations in eastern Europe that would be worth it?

Krakow (Poland) or in combination with Finland, a crossing from Helsinki to Tallin, Estonia.

There are multiple threads on Krakow, so have a look (use the searchmode, and remember to reset the number of days in your search -> standard is 7 days, which is a little short).

[Eagle]

sd21,

Ill have about 6 free months so I can spend all the time I want there

That clarifies things somewhat. One comment though -- due to the long duration of your visit, you'll have to ensure that you don't exceed the Schengen Visa limits. Non-E.U. residents are only allowed a maximum of three months. Anyone wanting to stay longer has to apply for an extension, and AFAIK these are almost NEVER granted.

You will probably have to design your Itinerary so that you alternate between Schengen / E.U. countries and non E.U. countries. Hopefully the others will have a few comments on this situation.

Cheers!!!

[me]

forgot about this. Schengen rules are restrictive. they actually say the 3 months count anywhere in Europe. and, leaving Europe and returning (like, to Africa) still counts!

Just looked. the restriction is "no more than 3 months out of every 6" without a visa. per the Auswärtiges Amt, the German Foreign Office.

so, you might be best off starting in Schengenzone, then going to non Schengen. [although the non Schengen have also gotten strict. in 2000, i got the 3rd degree, big time, on a train ferry from Saßnitz, Germany, to Trelleborg, Sweden! the Dutch guy who was in the same compartment with me from Saßnitz got really big eyes at all the questions comming from the Swede border cops! ]

actually, the only non-Schengen places in your plan are Prague, Budapest & Gibraltar. so, that idea won't work. i don't know what to suggest.

back in the good old days, this wasn't a worry. every country was different. but, since Schengen came into force it's much harder.

eagle said:

You will probably have to design your Itinerary so that you alternate between Schengen / E.U. countries and non E.U. countries. Hopefully the others will have a few comments on this situation.

[me]

i was wrong again! Gibraltar is the only place on your list outside Schengen. Ireland & UK are the only parts of EU which haven't signed up. Hungary & Czech Republic have signed up, but have yet to "implement" the agreement. [implementation has been delayed from 2007 to 2009. it may even be delayed further]