Somewhat Complex!

[frankftr]

Ok, so we are taking a somewhat complex month and a half journey through western Europe, any tips, suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!

6/6 Arrive in Rome

6/10 - Pisa or Florence

6/12 - Milan

6/14 - Interlaken (canyoneering?)

6/18 - Nice

6/21 - Barcelona

We are doing a 12 day Mediterranean cruise from Barcelona to Venice that hits:

1 Barcelona, Spain
10:00 PM

2 Marseille (Provence), France
8:30 AM
6:00 PM

3 Florence/Pisa (Livorno), Italy
7:00 AM
7:00 PM

4 Rome (Civitavecchia), Italy
7:00 AM
7:00 PM

5 Naples/Capri, Italy
7:00 AM
7:00 PM

6 At Sea

7 Mykonos, Greece
7:00 AM
2:00 PM

8 Istanbul, Turkey
8:00 AM
6:00 PM

9 Kusadasi (Ephesus), Turkey
12:00 PM
7:00 PM

10 Athens (Piraeus), Greece
6:00 AM
5:45 PM

11 At Sea

12 Venice, Italy
1:00 PM

13 Venice, Italy
5:00 AM

7/4 Fly from Venice to London (Tour de France and poss. Wimbledon)

7/9 Pamplona (running of the bulls) -- Not sure if we should fly from London to Barcelona then take the train or take the chunnel or what...suggestions please!! Also not sure if we should possibly stay in San Sebastian and take a bus to pamplona for the festival.

7/12 Bordeaux (or small French village on the way to Paris)

7/14 Paris

7/17 Depart home

I know it's kinda complicated! But any help would be greatly appriciated! I think the only MUST NOT CHANGE things are Start and End dates and locations, Interlaken, London, Pamplona and the cruise.

Thanks so much!!

[madamtrashheap]

Welcome frankftr!

You say complicated, we say challenging! ;D As your cruise dates are locked in, I'm glad to see you're spending your own time in Rome to see more as you'll find that a day in each place on the cruise just touches the surface. For example in Naples/Capri you'll dock in Naples, jump on the hydrofoil that leave the same port to go to Capri, then return to Naples for a little free time (I hope) or head a little further south for time in Pompei. They may even go Naples-Capri-Sorrento-Pompei-Naples. So you see it's rushed, but at least your transport it taken care of.

For the other sections, can I suggest dropping Milan for more time in Florence (Pisa is a half day trip from Florence, 1hr by train). Then you can head straight up to Interlaken (they have canyoning, paragliding, mountain biking, etc) and you could even spend time further up in the mountains in Lauterbrunnen, Gimmelwald, etc before getting a flight (trin first!) to Nice from Basel or Geneva (probably the former is better - look at www.easyjet.com ). Then you're facing a v long train ride to Barcelona from Nice (around 12 hours and no night train) or fly with Click Air from Marseille to Barcelona (Marseille is about 2hr30 south of Nice by train). And, I just remembered a Post form herrbert, Iberia Air is flying Marseille-Barcelona from the 21st June so that might suit better.

frankftr said:

Not sure if we should fly from London to Barcelona then take the train or take the chunnel or what...suggestions please!! Also not sure if we should possibly stay in San Sebastian and take a bus to pamplona for the festival.

I'm confused about this part as it would be best to fly London-Barcelona (the chunnel is the train tunnel linking the UK with France that the Eurostar uses) then continue to Pamplona from there. I'll leave the others to Post about this as they have given excellent advice on bus vs train on this route. Can I point out, though, that accommodation in Pamplona is booked out pretty much for the festival this year. Here's a post on accommodation pretravel.proboards1.com/index.cgi?board=Accommodation&action=display&n=1&thread=6647&page=1 otherwise the train is 2hrs 30 from San Sebastian to Pamplona which might be a better option.

Going back up to Paris via Bordeaux will be another long train ride, but at least you're breaking it up. Bordeaux is nice enough, but you could also look at Avignon or Lyon and then when you take the train to Paris from there you could do a quick stop in, say Beaune or Fontainebleau (or just catch the TGV Lyon-Paris).

Happy planning, keep us updated!

[me]

Dr. Frank-N-Furter, i presume?

when you get to Rome, you may have jet lag <depends from whence you come> so your first day or two will not be great. so, as Rome is one of the world's greatest cities, you should prolly alot more time there.

Florence deserves a little more time as you can do a Pisa daytrip. a Sienna daytrip might work, too.

i've read on here that Milan isn't really worth it. you might fit in some time in Cinque Terra, Italian riviera. that might work better than going to Nice. [when i went to Nice as a student, i concluded that the French had taken a cue from the Vikings: just as Iceland doesn't have much ice, the people of Nice weren't too nice!]

from Interlaken, you could go to Zürich airport for a flight to Barcelona: €87, total, per person on Air Berlin - Tue. June 19, if you book ahead.

[madamtrashheap]

me said:

Dr. Frank-N-Furter, i presume?

It's just a jump to the left.....

[me]

Let's do the time warp again!

madamtrashheap said:

me said:

Dr. Frank-N-Furter, i presume?

It's just a jump to the left.....

[me]

we might be confusing you young'ins with these references to "Rocky Horror Picture Show." frankftr's screen name reminded me of a character from that movie, Dr. Frank-N-Furter.

[herrbert]

To get back on track:

There are a couple of ways to get to Pamplona. And sorry to object your honor, but the chunnel doesn't seem very appealing to me.

Easyjet flies London - Bilbao, and that would mean a trip by train (check http://www.renfe.es) of 1.45 (from Bibloa Central Station, so you have to include time to get from the airport to there)

Another option is to fly to Madrid, and fly to Pamplona (Check www.iberia.com and www.spanair.com. Or take the train from Madrid to Pamplona (3.45 hours). But take enough time to get to Atocha, which is on the southside of the city center. Barajas Airport is NorthEast of the city, but connected by Metro, but expect to spend about one hour to get there.

From Barcelona it would mean around 6 hours by train.

If you plan to visit Pamplona for one day, you could make it a daytrip from San Sebastian, or maybe Bilbao. During all the days of the festival the city will be crowded. Bilbao and San Sebastian or both around 1.45 by train. (some take a little bit longer). But also expect these trains to be packed. I would try to see if it would be possible to get accommodation first, in or around Pamplona, if it's not possible, then decide if it is worth the hassle to fly back to Spain, and consider leaving this for a next trip.

For the Nice bit, as the madam already wrote, there are some flights between Marseille and Barcelona. Iberia flies this route (but the website is either in French or Spanish). and also Clickair is flying this route. Clickair will fly at 8.10 in the morning, so if you want to take this flight, it better to get to Marseille, at least one day earlier.

[frankftr]

Thank you all for the great help and good humor! haha...Ok, so here's what I'm thinking...my plan did not take into account the length of train trips! I know, you old pro's are sitting there saying, umm, YEAH!!

Revised schedule looked at train times and will actually allow us to see more of Europe than we planned! most of the suggestions said we should consider more plane travel (i.e. nice to Barcelona) however, I love trains!! And considering most of what I've heard said to avoid Nice, that's what I'll do!!

So here's the new plan:

6/6 Arrive in Rome
6/11 - Florence (guess the day in Pisa on the cruise will be enough?)
6/14 - Interlaken
6/18 - Lyon
6/20 - Montpelier
6/21 - Barcelona

As far as after the cruise...

7/4 fly to London
7/9 fly to Bilbao (on easyjet)
train to Pamplona
7/11 train to Bordeaux
7/13 train to Paris
7/17 fly home

I think the longest stretch of train in this plan is from Florence to Interlaken at about 6.5 hours, but I think that's also going to be a pretty scenic 6.5 hours, no?

Thanks again for your help!!!

[herrbert]

I think you find that the trip to Interlaken will take almost 7.30. Also some of the other rides are pretty long (Montpellier - Barcelona, and Biblao - Bordeaux, are both 6+ hours)

If you want to know more about the timetables, and the time needed to get somewhere, check www.bahn.de

If I might, suggest something, maybe it would be worth to consider swapping Montpellier for Carcasonne. It will need a longer trip from Lyon, but it would also mean a shorter trip to Barcelona (just over 5 hours).

edit: bed engrish

[madamtrashheap]

herrbert, again, took the words right off my keyboard about swapping Montpellier for Carcassonne. If you're going to spend time on the train, Carcassonne is a better choice than Montpellier (IMHO).

And I knew there were other routes to fly for Pamplona (how could I miss the London-Bilbao flight?!!), glad herrbert saw this. Although the chunnel (it's a tunnel, not the name of the train!) was not a suggestion from me on this route, might I add. ;D

And totally skipped over the part of your cruise that docks in Livorno. You'll be taken to Pisa then Florence so the time you have in Pisa on the cruise will be plenty, no need to spend more time there at the start of your trip. You only have two full days in Florence so spend the time there - it's a beautiful city and whilst it would be nice to try to fit a day trip to San Gimignano or Siena in, this will eat into your Florence time.

That train trip to Interlaken (Ost) is around 7 hours, but can be uop to 8hr30 if you get a route with lots of connections, so check times first. The scenery is fab, but you could consider the night train (the 23.00 one from Firenze Campo di Marte - station in the north east of the city, reached by train from the main station or by taxi/bus) gets in around 8.00 the next morning but there are train changes). There are flights to Geneva from Florence (or check the Pisa route but I don't think there are many/any choice), but it's up to you as that's still another 3 hours by train to Interlaken.

[frankftr]

Thanks again soo much!! Got my flight from London to Bilbao booked! Things are straightened out with getting into Pamplona! Carcassonne also looks like a great place, so we will take your advice and put that in!

One last question to ask of your infinite wisdom! ;-) Any suggestions on what to do when our cruise docks in Civitavecchia? Since we will have already been to Rome, we are looking for something a little more laid back, maybe a nice beach or a small town lacking tourists but rich in history. We're open to any suggestions!!

[me]

may not be laid back, but i'd suggest going to Rome and seeing more of it! that city has so much to offer. in the 4 days you have planned there, you won't get more than a superficial look-see.

how long will you be docked at Civitavecchia?

- d

frankftr said:

Any suggestions on what to do when our cruise docks in Civitavecchia? Since we will have already been to Rome, we are looking for something a little more laid back, maybe a nice beach or a small town lacking tourists but rich in history. We're open to any suggestions!!

[madamtrashheap]

Was also going to suggest using the time to see more of Rome! Civitavecchia is a port town, with a few things to see, but I suspect you'll be transported directly to Rome (bus takes around ) and I'm sure they'll have tours, etc organised for you, but you don't have to do them if they aren't of interest or you've already covered the placed. The beaches along that part of the coast aren't great at all (wait for Capri or Greece and Turkey) so either use the time to explore Rome more, or even take a train to, for example, Hadrian's Villa in Tivoli (north of Rome), Civita di Bagnoregio or even back to Florence or Siena. Just make sure you're back in time to meet the transport back to the harbour (or get details from your cruise directors).