3.5 Week Backpacking Trip in August

[hamboarder]

Hi everyone! I am new to this message board, so far I have gotten a lot of useful information already just from reading, but I was wondering what you think of me and my friend's itinerary so far. It is still very preliminary and under speculation. So far we have set it up for a 25 day trip, to visit the following countries in order:

Flight into Germany

Germany (1 days) - Cologne
Netherlands (3 days) - Amsterdam, Rotterdam
----------
fly into London
----------
United Kingdom (5 days) - London, Cambridge
----------
fly into Brussells
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Belgium (2 day) - Brussells
France (3 days) - Paris, Nice
Italy (6 days) - Rome, Naples, Florence, Venice, Milan
Switzerland (2 days) - Geneve, Zurich

back to Germany, fly out of Cologne


I'm thinking about either replacing Switzerland with Austria (visit Vienna) since its better for our travel route, or taking out completely and spending more time in Italy and France. Going to UK and Italy are a must, everything else isn't set in stone.

More importantly, are we alloting enough time to enjoy ourselves at these places? or is it too little time in each place and more time on the road? Personally it seems like too much...

Also, any suggestions on cities to visit in those countries?

Thank you! I love this site...

[herrbert]

Hi hamboarder,

I looks like you have to make some choices, as doing 5 cities in Italy in 6 days is not recommendable to say the least. Like you already say yourself, you will have too little time in most places.

I would suggest putting all the effort and time, in the travel to the UK and Italy, and see if there might be some time left for another city.

The 5 days for London (and a trip to Cambridge) is OK, so that's worth keeping.

In Italy I would at least go to see Rome (4-5 days), Florence (3-4 days) and Venice (2-3 days). Naples isn't the safest city at the moment, but you could see it as a daytrip from Rome. (if you want some days outside of Rome, to see Naples, Pompeii, Capri and the Amalfi coast, then I would suggest staying on the coast e.g. Sorrento)

Milan is hardly worth a visit, unless you have a special interest in seeing the Duomo, or the last supper painting.

As I believe you will be flying in and ouf of Cologne. You should see the Dom in Cologne, and maybe stay one day longer in Cologne (to get rid of the jetlag). From there it would be a choice between Amsterdam and Paris. Amsterdam needs about 2-3 days, and Paris about 4-5. So one of them could be fitted in, but for the rest I would say: skip it for now (see if you can do that on a trip in the future).

check www.bahn.de for timetables on trains, www.flightassistent.com for which budgetairlines are available, and www.eurostar.com for a possible train between Paris and London. (the cheapest seats of 45 euro, are a pretty good deal)

[hamboarder]

thanks for your response herrbert! perhaps if france was not included and we took out a few cities in italy, then it would leave us some more time for the other countries. Personally, it will be my first time to europe so I am hoping to see a lot in my time there. Here is a revised itinerary..

Flight into Germany

Germany (2 days) - Cologne
Netherlands (5 days) - Amsterdam, Rotterdam
----------
fly into London
----------
United Kingdom (5 days) - London, Cambridge
----------
fly into Brussells
----------
Belgium (2 day) - Brussells
Italy (8 days) - Rome, Naples, Florence, Venice
Switzerland (2 days) - Geneva, Zurich

back to Germany, fly out of Cologne

how does this revised itinerary sound?
also, does anyone suggest any places/cities in switzerland that are a must-see?

[rbrettg]

why do u want to goto geneva and zurich? there is pretty much nothingthere.. I sugest removing them completely, or adding days to Interlakeno or Lucerene or something, or just take those days and add them elsewhere.

[herrbert]

Stick to Amsterdam for Holland, in Rotterdam there is nothing to see. So stick to Amsterdam, and make that 3 days. Stick these 2 days also into Italy, because the 8 days you have there are just good enough for Rome and Florence.

I would also swap Brussels for Brugge.

For the route it is easier to go to Belgium from Cologne, then up to Amsterdam, and then fly to London (check VLM Airlines), you can get flights from there to Italy, very easy.

I know it is natural for you to want to see as much as possible, but it's better to see things properly, and save the other cities for a future-trip. In my opinion there is nothing worse then leaving a city, knowing that you haven't seen all you wanted to see.

It will take some time to get in and out of Switzerland, so ask yourself if it is worth the time and effort to get there. I have to agree with rbrettg, go to the places that matters in Switzerland. Geneva or Luzern are not what make you want to see Switzerland. The first thing you think about when you hear Switzerland is Mountains. So take rbrettg's advice, and go to Interlaken straight away. As you want to do this from Venice, ask yourself if Innsbruck in Austria would be a good alternative. (Austria is cheaper as well)

[hamboarder]

herrbert said:

Stick to Amsterdam for Holland, in Rotterdam there is nothing to see. So stick to Amsterdam, and make that 3 days. Stick these 2 days also into Italy, because the 8 days you have there are just good enough for Rome and Florence.

I would also swap Brussels for Brugge.

For the route it is easier to go to Belgium from Cologne, then up to Amsterdam, and then fly to London (check VLM Airlines), you can get flights from there to Italy, very easy.

I know it is natural for you to want to see as much as possible, but it's better to see things properly, and save the other cities for a future-trip. In my opinion there is nothing worse then leaving a city, knowing that you haven't seen all you wanted to see.

It will take some time to get in and out of Switzerland, so ask yourself if it is worth the time and effort to get there. I have to agree with rbrettg, go to the places that matters in Switzerland. Geneva or Luzern are not what make you want to see Switzerland. The first thing you think about when you hear Switzerland is Mountains. So take rbrettg's advice, and go to Interlaken straight away. As you want to do this from Venice, ask yourself if Innsbruck in Austria would be a good alternative. (Austria is cheaper as well)

Thanks for the input. Hmm..any reason why you would swap Brussels for Brugge?

As for Switzerland, yes we definitely want to go there for the alps. Interlaken sounds like a great choice.

I could only find a flight into naples from london, so I guess I will start there in Italy and then visit Rome, Florence and maybe Venice.
In your opinion, is naples worth visiting?

[herrbert]

I would swap Brussels for Brugge, because it's a nice place. They are close to eachother, so for transport or costs it doesn't make a lot of difference. You can do the other one as a daytrip, or maybe go to Gent from Brugge.

If you are talking about London-Heathrow, then you could be almost right, as a lot of budgetairlines fly from one of the other 4 airport in/around London. However BMI should also fly from Heathrow to Venice. If you take a look at some of the other airports, you can find flights to all over Italy: revolutionmusic.eu/flightassistent/countries/uk/londonall.html, As far as transportation is concerned you can reach all the London - Airports pretty easy. (London City Airport and Heathrow have the advantage you can reach them by taking the tube.

Naples would not be on my list, if i would have the number of days you have. If a city is worth it or not is a hard call, and I think every town on Earth is worth a visit, but you won't have enough time for it. It always depends on the interests of people if they want to go or not, if Naples as an attraction on you, then go.

[hamboarder]

woohoo! we finalized our flight, it goes into frankfurt, germany. here is our revised route:

Itinerary
---------
Flight into Frankfurt, Germany

Germany (1 day) - Frankfurt
Belgium (~2-3 days) - Brugge (Belgium day trip)
Netherlands (~2 days) - Amsterdam
----------
fly from Amsterdam into London, UK
----------
United Kingdom (~3 days) - London, Cambridge
----------
Eurostar (overnighter) into Paris, France
----------
France (~3 days) - Paris
Italy (~8 days) - Rome, Florence, Venice
Switzerland (~3 days) - Interlaken (Gimmelwald, Grindelwald, Stechelberg?)

Fly out of Frankfurt, Germany



Our itinerary still seems really packed, but it should work...

anyone know which of those cities in switzerland to visit? and also any small towns in italy around those cities?

much appreciated,
Justin

[herrbert]

In my opinion it doesn't seem overpacked, but it is overpacked. 3 days for both London and Paris? (and then adding Cambridge?) At least see if you get to see all you want to see in London, before making the attempt to go to Cambridge.

What do you mean with an overnight train on the Eurostar, do you know something I don't, because as far as I know there is no nighttrain, simply because the route is too short (or too fast.)

You will find Gimmelwald as a favorite, on this site (do a search, and you will find plenty of information.) As you would also have to get back to Frankfurt, I would recommend sticking to one place in Switzerland.

If you want to go Paris - Rome, take a look at a cheapflight.

[Eagle]

hamboarder / Justin, I'm joining the discussion a bit late, and realize it's probably too late at this stage to make any changes, but have a few comments anyway.

The order of travel seems a bit inefficient, in that you're crossing the Channel twice. I don't know what flights are available to you, but my preference would have been to start in London and then move to the continent.

Some comments on your other destinations:

Frankfurt - 1 day. You might find it more interesting to visit a smaller centre somewhere close to Frankfurt. While no doubt Frankfurt has some good qualities as a tourist destination, it's not one of my favourites.

Belgium & Netherlands. Looks good.

London - 3 days. IMHO this isn't really an adequate time to see London, so adding Cambridge is not going to allow enough time to see either one properly.

Paris - 3 days. Again, this is not adequate time to see Paris, but I suppose it will provide a quick look at some of the major sites. If you're planning to visit any of the Museums (Louvre, Musee d'Orsay, Arch de Triomphe, etc.), then I would highly recommend a Paris Museum Pass in order to minimize the times spent waiting in queues!!! The three day version would likely be a good one to consider. You should be able to obtain this from a Travel Agent or perhaps off the net. You can also buy the Pass at Tourist Bureau's in Paris - as I recall, there's one close to the old Opera House, but there are others - check the web). However, you'll still have to wait to visit the Eiffel Tower (that seems to be an unfortunate fact of life!). You can minimize this to some extent by choosing the time of day that you visit. I've found that the queues are slightly shorter at supper time, however not sure what that's like in August? One final point - if you're planning to visit the Louvre, don't try to see all three wings in one day as that's virtually impossible - pick one section, perhaps the Denon wing and concentrate on that for a few hours.

Italy - 8 days. With this short time frame, you might find it better to drop Venice from the list and plan to see it on your next visit? One could easily spend eight days touring just Rome and Florence. A day trip to Pisa or perhaps the Cinque Terre might be possible, depending on how you structure your time? If you're planning to visit the Colosseum, be wary of the scammers out front offering "English language tours". Your best bet is to buy a combo ticket on Palatine Hill, which also provides admission to the Colosseum (take a right past the Arch of Constantine and walk up the via Sacra). With a ticket, use the right-hand queue at the Colosseum. Once you go through the security checkpoint, look for the small booth with all the "blinking lights" (where the Audioguides are charged), as you can arrange an "official" tour at that location (well worth the cost and very informative!).

Switzerland - 3 days. My preference would be to drop Grindelwald and Stechelberg from the list. Grindelwald is in the "other" valley and with the limited time you might find it more beneficial to spend your time in the Lauterbrunnen Valley. With regard to Stechelberg, if you're going to Gimmelwald you'll be there anyway as (from what I recall) that's where the Cable Car terminal is. With three days to spend, you'll have more than enough to do and see in visiting Interlaken, Gimmelwald, Murren and that part of Switzerland. A trip to the top of the Schilthorn will take about half a day (it's a bit expensive, but worth the trip IMO). Of course, once you get use to enjoying life in Gimmelwald you might not want to go anywhere else! Be sure to read some of the other posts with regards to the route to take in travelling from Interlaken to Gimmelwald (and beyond).

I'd like to stress that I'm not trying to be "negative" regarding your plans, but rather offer a more realistic view. Keep in mind that you'll be travelling in August (I'm assuming this August?) which is a hot and BUSY time in Europe (this week has seen temperatures in some parts of Europe in the range of 46C, along with severe rains and flooding in some parts of the U.K.!!!). Aside from the flights that you have listed, I don't see much allowance for travel times on the last Itinerary that you posted? Were you planning to travel with a Rail Pass?

Be sure to wear a Money Belt, and be wary of petty thieves and Gypsies (I found them especially prevalent in Paris and Rome).

Hope this has been a bit of help? Good luck and happy travels!!!

[hamboarder]

herbert and eagle, i appreciate the honesty and the all the feedback.

yes, our trip is this august, we extended it from early august to early sept (28 days). we already booked the flight a few days ago, flying into frankfurt germany. however, we have not booked things like hostels, other european flights, or rail passes yet. we will get a rail pass (most likely the eurail select youth pass for either 8 or 10 days in 2 months in 5 countries).

our itinerary is very convoluted IMO because the UK is out of the way and so is france (slightly). we're still trying to figure things out but i'll probably be back soon with "another" revised route lol

thanks again for the input!

[hamboarder]

we decided to remove the UK from the trip (as bad as we wanted to go). so now...here's our planned route:

Flight into Frankfurt, Germany

Germany (2 day) - Frankfurt
Netherlands (~2 days) - Amsterdam
Belgium (~2-3 days) - Brugge (Belgium day trip)
France (~5 days) - Paris
Italy (~10 days) - Rome, Florence, Venice
Switzerland (~3 days) - Interlaken (Gimmelwald)

Fly out of Frankfurt, Germany

[herrbert]

hamboarder said:

we decided to remove the UK from the trip (as bad as we wanted to go). so now...here's our planned route:

Flight into Frankfurt, Germany

Germany (2 day) - Frankfurt
Netherlands (~2 days) - Amsterdam
Belgium (~2-3 days) - Brugge (Belgium day trip)
France (~5 days) - Paris
Italy (~10 days) - Rome, Florence, Venice
Switzerland (~3 days) - Interlaken (Gimmelwald)

Fly out of Frankfurt, Germany

Looks more reasonable, and just keep London in the back of your mind, for a future trip.

Frankfurt, wouldn't be my choice to stay. I don't know how late you will arrive, but I would already make a move a little further North. You could spend the 2 days you have for Germany, in the Rhine Valley. There are a number of nice towns along the Rhine (Bingen, Koblenz.) A little further North, you will also find Cologne. The Dom (Cathedral) is a must visit. (Even if you would stay in Frankfurt, and decide to make the trip to Amsterdam, you can make a visit, to simply get of the train in Cologne. When you leave the station, you will see the Dom, on the other side of the square. If you have a little more time (or you decide on a night in Cologne), you can also see a bit of the town, and take a stroll along the river.

From Brugge, you can make daytrips easy to Brussels, and even closer is Gent. If you like history and WWI is of ay interest, you can also go Ieper (Ypres).

Paris 5 days seems enough. read the boards as there is a lot the find, on Paris.

I presume Paris - Rome, would be a flight. Otherwise get to Switzerland first, and then Venice - Florence and the Rome (before flying back to Frankfurt). Be aware that if you take a flight back from Rome, to be careful that you don't book a flight from Rome to Frankfurt - Hahn, or give yourself enough time to make the transfer, which takes about 2 hours)

For Railpasses, check www.railsaver.com

[hamboarder]

Thanks herrbert!

We opted with the suggestion to stay in the smaller, less urban areas, but have been recommended to us as better places to stay.

-Instead of Frankfurt, staying somewhere in Rhine Valley - Koblenz? (more suggestions anyone?)

-Instead of Brussels, staying in Brugge
-Instead of Interlaken, staying in Gimmelwald

We are also thinking about planning a trip to Ovierto from Rome as a daytrip, or maybe just visit it on the way to Florence.

Can anyone recommend any good hostels to stay at in these cities? Also, any suggestions for the other cities (Paris, Rome, Florence, Venice, etc). The main thing we are concerned about is the price of the hostels. Ideally we just want a cheap place to crash at night. Right now, we are thinking about booking hostels for the weekends and winging it during the weekdays.

Thank you

[me]

hamboarder said:

-Instead of Frankfurt, staying somewhere in Rhine Valley - Koblenz? (more suggestions anyone?)

if you want a place close to FRA airport, i'd suggest Mainz. it's a beautiful, historic city. [the Gutenberg museum is especially interesting]

hamboarder said:

Instead of Interlaken, staying in Gimmelwald

i thought your idea of opting to visit Vienna instead of Switzerland is a great idea!

hamboarder said:

We are also thinking about planning a trip to Ovierto from Rome as a daytrip, or maybe just visit it on the way to Florence.

i'd wanted to do that, too (stop on the way to Florence). but, as i recall, there was no place to check bags. exploring a hill town with a heavy backpack didn't sound good to me, so i skipped it.