My Itener. and questions?

[alexshim]

London
Hi everyone, i have 37 days to travel to europe.. my flight is from Toronto to London on June 10th and I come back July 17th from Zurich-->London.. so far this is what I had in mind:

London (1 - 2 days, I am not interested in it now, because I will be in school in the UK starting September)

Paris (3 days)
Bruges or Brussels (1 day)
Amsterdam (2-3 days)
Berlin (2 - 3 days)
Prauge (2 days)
Venice (2 days)
Ancona -- > Athens (Island Hopper Tour) (With Athenes, I am thinking 11 - 12 days here) I am thinking of booking it from busabout.com, they have a cheap island hopper thing, if anyone did that, could you comment it?
Athenes --> Ancona (1 day?)
Rome (2-3 days)
Florance (2 days)
Nice (2-3 days)
Somehwhere in Switzerland (not sure where yet) (I want to see the Mountains, so I am not sure where yet, but this is mostly if I have time left... maybe 2 days)
Last day Zurich (if i have time, not interested in this city much, just have to fly from it) -- > London -- > Canada


So that is it... any suggestions? On other websites they told me its too much fro 37 days, they maybe right, but I do not want to cut Dreece isles from my trip.. if there is a shorter tour, I may be interested but I cannot find something cheaper and busabout said its a minimum of 9 days....

Also, what is better? to take the busabout route.. or to take Eurorail (15 day, 2 month flexipass) it will run my a lot cheaper then taking 2 routes with busabout...


Any suggestions would be appreciated..

[Eagle]

alexshim, Welcome! A few comments on your Itinerary.

Based on the wording in your Post, I'm assuming you've already bought your air tickets? As you'll be studying in the U.K. in the fall, I probably would have eliminated London and started the trip in Paris using "open jaw" flights. I believe Zoom and Air Transat both have flights on the Toronto-Paris route? That would have saved you both time and money.

Given that you only have 37 days for your trip (not really a long time, but adequate), you will need to plan very efficiently in order not to waste either time or money. I don't have any information on the Greece tours you mentioned, but hopefully some of the others can help?

Would something like this work:

- Paris (at least 5 days! Keep in mind you'll probably "lose" the first day due to flight times and time zone changes)
- Brugges (1 day)
- Amsterdam (2 days)
- Berlin (3 days minimum)
- Prague (2 days)
- Venice (2 days - it's a long trip from Prague, you might consider a budget airline)
- Ancona??? (this will probably depend on what Greek tour you select? Otherwise this could be deleted)
- Rome (5 days minimum! Again, a budget flight from your last stop in Greece would probably be best)
- Florence (3 days minimum, but this will depend on what you want to see?)
- ADD Cinque Terre? (2 or 3 days)
- Nice (I would probably leave that for another trip, but your choice?)
- Switzerland (although Switzerland is somewhat expensive, this shouldn't be too much of a problem for a short stay - you might consider Interlaken or Gimmelwald for a few days - you WILL see mountains!!!)

For the flight home, you could consider Munich, Frankfurt or Paris (which are served by Air Transat and/or Zoom AFAIK)

Good luck with your planning. Cheers!!!

[madamtrashheap]

alexshim, welcome to GFE!

There are a few points about your itinerary, the first of which is order. You could change the direction you travel depending on your method(s) of travel: rail, plane, bus, combination of all.

Based on what you have, here are some suggestions:

Paris (3 days) - most stay 4-5 full days which allows for a day trip to Versailles, depends on what you want to see.
Bruges or Brussels (1 day) - if you only have 1 day then choose Bruges/Brugge
Amsterdam (2-3 days) - 2 full days will be fine
Look at flying Amsterdam to Berlin
Berlin (2 - 3 days) - allow 3 days here
The train Berlin-Prague passes Dresden so look at stopping there for a few hours if you're interested
Prauge (2 days) - 2 days is the minimum I'd recommend, 3 is better
You could fly (Smart Wings) or overnight train (14hours) from Prague to Venice
Venice (2 days) - 2 days is a good amount of time here
Ancona -- > Athens (Island Hopper Tour) (With Athenes, I am thinking 11 - 12 days here) I am thinking of booking it from busabout.com, they have a cheap island hopper thing, if anyone did that, could you comment it?
Not sure what you mean about "11-12 days in Athens" but if that includes the Island Hopper tour then fine. 2-3 days in Athens is a good amount of time to explore. The different organised tours of the Greek Islands are a good way to get around without worrying about organising your own transport (they arrange the ferries, etc for you) and as long as you don't mind not having your own timetable then you'll be fine.
Athenes --> Ancona (1 day?) - I would fly Athens to Rome either with Aegean Air ( www.aegeanair.com ) or look at Alitalia or Olympic Airways. This will save you a day and night on the ferries from Greece to Italy.
Rome (2-3 days) - to see Rome properly, you need 4-5 full days. 5 days would allow a day trip south to Pompei if that interests you
Florance (2 days) - you really need 3 full days in Florence, but if you only have 2 then spend them in the city and book ahead for any museums.
the train from Florence to Nice takes around 8-9 hours so I'd suggest making a day of it and going to Pisa from Florence in the morning, spending a few hours there, then catching the afternoon train to Nice from Pisa (will take around 6 hours Pisa-Nice) and you'll get in late evening. Otherwise skip Pisa and go direct or take a night train if that suits better.
Nice (2-3 days) - 2 full days will be plenty, but if the weather is good you might want the extra day to lie on the beach.
Somehwhere in Switzerland (not sure where yet) (I want to see the Mountains, so I am not sure where yet, but this is mostly if I have time left... maybe 2 days)
Rather than flying Nice-Zurich direct (as you wisely don't want to spend your Swiss time here) you could fly Nice to either Basel or Geneva and spend the time in either Bern or say Gyron (near Geneva) so you're in the mountains and don't have too much travel time to get to Zurich airport for your flight. As you don't have a lot of time to play with, try to stay nearer to Zurich, rather than up in the mountains as it will take a good 4 hours to get from say Gimmelwald to Zurich (in this case, Interlaken would be a better choice I guess). If your flight is before lunch, I'd stay in Zurich the night before to make sure you have no hitches getting to your flight on time. This might dictate how much time you have left for Switzerland and where you can stay.
Last day Zurich (if i have time, not interested in this city much, just have to fly from it) -- > London -- > Canada

You could also travel:

London-Paris
Paris train (TGV fast train) to Nice
Nice train to Florence
Florence train to Rome
Rome fly to Athens
island tour
Athens fly to Venice (look at Alpi Eagles www.alpieagles.com )
Venice fly to Prague (look at Smart Wings www.smartwings.net )
Prague train to Berlin
Berlin fly to Amsterdam (look at Transavia www.transavia.com )
Amsterdam night train Bern then on to Zurich (you may have to skip Belgium with this route)

Without knowing what your interests are, it's difficult to recommend the "correct" amount of time in each city, however those above are a guideline. It is a lot for 37 days but as long as you're aware of this and look at the days suggested then you be able to fit everything in. If you do have to look at removing places, then look at taking Nice and Brugge out this time around.

Good luck with the planning!

[alexshim]

Wow, thanks a lot to both of you... this is by far a much better reply then what I had previously gotten on other sites...

I will be re-designing my trip based on both of your suggestions, and will repost my itenerery again.

I had one more question, based on your replies, it seems that I may need to fly in some cases, I was wondering, would you recommend a 10 day or a 15 day rail pass (flex, 2 months).

And Eagle, yes I already booked my flights, but doing it to London was a LOT cheaper... ended up being $500 CDN with taxes both ways (www.flyglobespan.com) ...

Thanks,

And if anyone did some Greek Island tours and would like to comment, it would be appreciated...

I was actually considering just doing 1 or 2 islands and cutting my Greece time a little short now..


Thanks again,
Alex

[Eagle]

A few more comments......

yes I already booked my flights, but doing it to London was a LOT cheaper

OK, but how much will it cost both in time and money for the EuroStar to Paris and then the flight back to London? Often (but not always) it's more cost effective to use "open jaw" flights, even if they do cost a bit more initially. It's a good way to maximise your travel time.

would you recommend a 10 day or a 15 day rail pass

It's very difficult to recomend any version of the Rail Passes until your Itinerary is somewhat finalized. Once you've worked out the exact order of cities and travel dates, enter the information into www.railsaver.com and it will provide a recommendation on which Pass to get.

Hopefully someone will be able to help with some details on the Greece tours?

this is by far a much better reply then what I had previously gotten on other sites...

That's nice to hear! I think all of us here at GFE try to be helpful.

Cheers!!!

[madamtrashheap]

We're a friendly bunch here! ;D

In response to the Greek Islands query, refer to what I wrote in my first Post with regard to tours. They all (different companies) offer tours either by cruise boat, yacht or on the larger ferries, it just depends what you think will suit you. If you do decide to cut down the time and visit only 1 or 2 islands then may I suggest Santorini and Mykonos. Santorini is just beautiful and Mykonos has both party and scenery with the added bonus of being able to take a day trip to nearby Delos. You could spend 3 days on each and I'd suggest flying (Aegean Air) from Athens to Santorini if the price suits, then ferry to Mykonos then either fast ferry Mykonos-Athens or fly back.

If you are travelling this Summer, then get on to book your accommodation now as it's (obviously) the busy season and fills fast.

Happy travels!

[alexshim]

Have you heard of this tour from busabout?

www.hostelworld.com/tours/tourdetails.php/TourUID.4137?PHPSESSID=4pfj331nond8lh6s8lkemdual4ep3rc6

Its pretty cheap but it seems that the only thing you really get is a ferry and hostel reservations... which technically I can do myself, but I think I would like to pay so that there is less hassle...

[madamtrashheap]

I have and it's a fairly new product (only been around for a bit) plus a variation on ones offered by Contiki, Top Deck, Trafalgar, Insight, etc.

It operates similarly to their coach/bus programme in that you can "hop-on-hop-off" when you like, so you have a little more flexibility in terms of staying longer/shorter in places than if you were on a fully organised tour. The tour guides are more like Reps in that they won't be leading you around with a flag on a stick to follow, but they help with info on places, getting you between islands, accommodation bookings, etc. If you like the idea of more flexibility but still have the option of access to someone as a contact point then go for it. The islands listed are all worth visiting so that's a bonus. I guess it comes down to the time you have/want to spend in the islands vs the rest of your trip.