30 Days in Europe Itinerary

[goldenchild]

Hey guys, I'm going to Europe for the first time with my bro and this is what I planned out so far. We're leaving on the 6th of September and coming back October 6. I ordered the plane tickets, departing Newark and arriving at Gatwick, London.

3 Nights in London
Take the Eurostar with passholder option (Cheapest?) London->Amsterdam skipping Belgium
4 Nights in Amsterdam
Take a early morning rail to Berlin (6 Hrs I think)
2 Nights in Berlin
Take a night train to Prague using Excursion pass
2 Nights in Prague
Take a overnight train to Munich
2 Nights in Munich
Take a morning rail to Stuttgart to check out the Benz museum and leave the same day to Geneve. (Is this doable? realistic? or is it a Amazing Race situation?)
3 Nights in Geneve
Morning rail next day to Venice
2 Nights
Night rail on last day of Venice to Florence
2 Nights
Night rail to Rome last day of Florence
3 Nights
Then a overnight train to Paris
3 Nights
Depart from CDG, France to NYC the next day

I know I need the Eurail 5 Country 10 Day Select pass and the Prague Excursion Pass. Is the Eurostar the cheapest way to get to Amsterdam? I looked it up and its around 79 for travelers with a pass. Whats the Youth Open Voucher?

Appreciate any comments or suggestions
Thanks

[me]

Hi, GC! uh, may i call you GC?

Some thoughts:

taking jet lag from a transatlantic flight into the mix, 3 nights in London is very short!

transport options to think about: there are some cheap flights from London airports to Netherlands airports. [it's a smallish country, most places you might fly to wouldn't be far from Amsterdam] tickets for some of those flights can be really cheap! much cheaper than Eurostar tix, even with a passholder discount.

i see you're not squeamish about night trains. why not the night train to Berlin? (evening train Amsterdam - Brussels, night train Brussels - Berlin)

also, check out railsaver.com/railsaver.asp and plug in your travel plans, see which pass/point-to-point tix option it suggests.

there are cheaper passes for youth, so include your ages, and special passes for two traveling together, so tell that there are two of you.

if a round trip NJ - London ticket plus a one way from Paris to London is much cheaper than an open jaw ticket, NJ - London & Paris - NJ, it's not that big of a deal to take that extra flight.

- d

[Eagle]

goldenchild, Welcome! I have a few comments to add to David's always excellent advice.

I completely agree that it would be nice if you could allocate an extra day or two for London. You'll likely lose the first day in time zone changes, so in reality you'll only have two days for London. Add to that the recovery from jet lag, and you really won't have much time at all. My preference would be to drop two nights from Amsterdam and add to London. Eight destinations in a one month trip is a bit "ambitious", especially as you have a lot of two night stops. I would probably drop one city and plan to see that on a return visit.

The train from Amsterdam to Berlin is about 6.5 hours with one or two changes (depending on which particular train you select). For example, for an early morning train, there's one departing Amsterdam Centraal at 06:34, arriving Berlin at 13:08 with one change in Duisburg (note that reservations are mandatory, even with a Railpass - these will cost extra). Be sure that you're clear on which station your train is leaving from, as there are several in Amsterdam.

The rail trip from Prague to Munich is about six hours if you take a direct train. If you do use an overnight train, be sure to choose one that has no changes, or you won't get much sleep! Again, reservations will be required as well as Couchette charges, at extra cost. I would probably prefer a six hour trip in the daytime, so that I could see the scenery, but if it fits better with your plans a night train is certainly feasible. There's one leaving at 20:06, arriving in Munich at 06:21 (no changes).

For the trip from Venice to Florence, I'm a bit curious on why you're planning a night train? The trip is only about 2.5 hours and the scenery is beautiful! I generally like to arrive a bit earlier, as some Hotels / Hostel prefer arrivals before a certain time. There's a train departing Venezia S.L. at 14:38, arriving Firenze S.M.N. at 17:23 (no changes - reservations mandatory). Would that work for you?

Again, on the trip from Florence to Rome, why a night train? The trip is only about 1.5 hours, the scenery is great and it's preferable to arrive a bit earlier. An extra day or two in Rome would be nice, as there's so much to see, but of course that would have to be at the expense of another location.

Finally, on the trip from Rome to Paris this is a perfect route for an overnight train. There's a direct train leaving Roma Termina at 18:40, arriving Paris-Bercy at 09:10. Again, reservations and Couchette fees will be required.

As David suggested, use the Railsaver website to determine which is the most cost effective Railpass for both of you. Unfortunately, there's not much time left before your departure, so it doesn't give us much time to offer suggestions. Keep in mind that you can order your Rail passes from this website (look for the link on the main page), and the cost is the same as elsewhere.

Cheers!!!

[herrbert]

Hi Goldenchild,

You have already gotten good tips from David and Eagle, I will stick with some remarks:

Personaly I would skip a city like Geneva, and shorten the stay in Amsterdam with one or even two days. I would do this in order to have more time for places that deserve more time.

Rome and London would be my prime candidates, to spend more days in. (One more in each city, would be a good start). Also Berlin can do with an additional day/night. There is a lot to see in Berlin, and most sites are really spread out over the city.

For Munchen, you need about 2 days, but more if you would also want to visit the Castles (Neuschwanstein and HohenSchwanau) near Füssen. I would consider visiting Stuttgart as a daytrip. (It's three hours by train), and getting a cheap flight to Venice. (check TUIfly, it's possible from 35 euro incl taxes)

[goldenchild]

Thanks for the tips guys! I made changes to the itinerary as suggested. I took out Stuttgart and Florence and added more time in London, Rome and Paris. I'm about to order the rail tickets but before I do, I wanna run this by you guys to see if everything checks out.. This is from raileurope.com.

From London to Amsterdam edit delete USD 208.00
2nd class; 2 adults
[07:42 AM-10:58 AM] 9/11/07, train 9112
London Waterloo to Bruxelles Midi, Seat
[11:25 AM-02:06 PM] 9/11/07, train 9321
Bruxelles Midi to Amsterdam CS, Seat
No rail protection plan included
add Rail Protection Plan


Eurail Selectpass Saver edit delete USD 1141.00
8 days in 2 months; 1st Class
Selected countries:Benelux, Germany, Switzerland, Italy, France
2 adults : 1 @ USD 1,124.00 each
rail protection plan @ USD 17.00 each
delete Rail Protection Plan


Prague Excursion Pass edit delete USD 156.00
7 days; 2nd Class
1 adult : 2 @ USD 78.00 each
No rail protection plan included
add Rail Protection Plan


From Prague to Munich edit delete USD 64.00
2nd class; 2 adults
[08:06 PM-06:21 AM] 9/19/07, train 362
Praha Hlavni Nadr to Muenchen Hbf, Couchette T6
No rail protection plan included
add Rail Protection Plan


From Geneva to Venice edit delete USD 28.00
2nd class; 2 adults
[08:50 AM-03:38 PM] 9/23/07, train 37
Geneve Cff to Venezia S Lucia, Seat
No rail protection plan included
add Rail Protection Plan


From Venice to Rome edit delete USD 44.00
2nd class; 2 adults
[06:38 AM-11:08 AM] 9/26/07, train 9463
Venezia S Lucia to Roma Termini, Seat
No rail protection plan included
add Rail Protection Plan


From Rome to Paris edit delete USD 74.00
2nd class; 2 adults
[06:40 PM-09:10 AM] 10/1/07, train 226
Roma Termini to Paris Bercy, Couchette T6
No rail protection plan included




Also, I ran the itinerary through railsaver.com but I'm confused about these parts:




Use the Prague Excursion 2 Day 2nd Class Adult FlexiPass to cover the segment from PRAGUE to FURTH IM WALD.

Use the Eurail 5 Country Benelux/France/Germany/Italy/Switzerland 8 Day 1st Class Adult Select pass to cover the segment from FURTH IM WALD to MUNICH.

Use the Eurail 5 Country Benelux/France/Germany/Italy/Switzerland 8 Day 1st Class Adult Select pass to cover the segment from MUNICH to LINDAU.

Purchase a 2nd Class Adult City-to-City Ticket to cover the segment from LINDAU to ST MARGRETHEN.

Use the Eurail 5 Country Benelux/France/Germany/Italy/Switzerland 8 Day 1st Class Adult Select pass to cover the segment from ST MARGRETHEN to GENEVE.

I'm booking an overnight train from Prague to Munich, do I have to change trains at FURTH IM WALD? Also, the Munich to Geneve part is weird. Can't I change trains at Zurich instead of purchasing city to city?

Thanks

GC

[herrbert]

I am not the biggest expert on traveling by train but the Czech Republic is not included in most passes. So railsaver is suggesting to by tickets from Furth im Wald, which is at the German - Czech Border, as you need a different pass or point-2-point tickets to get to Prague.

I have to say, the Swiss part looks weird to me too, but railsaver might be giving you the cheapest option, instead of the fastest option, which indeed seems to be Munich - Zürich - Bielle - Geneva.

[me]

goldenchild said:

Thanks for the tips guys! I made changes to the itinerary as suggested. I took out Stuttgart and Florence and added more time in London, Rome and Paris.

GC, it's your trip, but taking out Florence just seems wrong to me. it's a wonderful place with amazing museums!

just curious, why Geneva? it doesn't hold much of interest to me, and Swiss prices are *way* out of line with most of Europe. [UK is also expensive, but much more worth the price!]

unless there's something really special to you there, i'd suggest skipping it in favor of Florence.

- d

Edit: aalso, if you skip Geneva, there's a beautiful Austrian Mountain town between Munich & Venice: it's Innsbruck, site of Olympic games in 1964 & 1976! late september should be beautiful there, if a bit chilly.

[goldenchild]

Florence is back in the picture. We decided to save the Swiss another time.

How do the reservations work? Are we assigned specific seats? How's the couchettes?

From Prague to Munich edit delete USD 64.00
2nd class; 2 adults
[08:06 PM-06:21 AM] 9/19/07, train 362
Praha Hlavni Nadr to Muenchen Hbf, Couchette T6
No rail protection plan included
add Rail Protection Plan


From Geneva to Venice edit delete USD 28.00
2nd class; 2 adults
[08:50 AM-03:38 PM] 9/23/07, train 37
Geneve Cff to Venezia S Lucia, Seat
No rail protection plan included
add Rail Protection Plan


From Venice to Rome edit delete USD 44.00
2nd class; 2 adults
[06:38 AM-11:08 AM] 9/26/07, train 9463
Venezia S Lucia to Roma Termini, Seat
No rail protection plan included
add Rail Protection Plan


From Rome to Paris edit delete USD 74.00
2nd class; 2 adults
[06:40 PM-09:10 AM] 10/1/07, train 226
Roma Termini to Paris Bercy, Couchette T6
No rail protection plan included

[me]

could you go through your plans again? i'm a little confused about what's in & what's out.

- d