lagamj
Junior Travel Member
Posts: 2
|
Post by lagamj on Sept 3, 2007 9:19:57 GMT -5
Hello! I am new to this message board, but have read a few posts and I love this place! I am planning a trip with my boyfriend to Europe starting next March. We will be traveling by car, borrowed most likely from relatives. Also we already have most of the flight details figured out as well. I think we will most likely be camping, staying with relatives, as well as staying in a few hostels here and there, because camping can be a drag after a while.
I know that this is pretty tight. I was considering cutting some places such as Belgium & Amsterdam. Even though I would really love to see them, they are out of the way. I was wondering if anyone had any ideas as to what could be taken out or switched. Or if anyone has suggestions as to any other places to go instead of certain cities?
Any opinions or tips would be much appreciated!!!!! Thanks in advance!!
• [20 Mar 2008 - 01 Apr 2008] Toulouse, France - 10 days (going here because my family will be here at this point.)
• [01 Apr 2008 - 06 Apr 2008] Barcelona, Spain - 4 days
• [06 Apr 2008 - 08 Apr 2008] Marseille, France - 1 day
• [08 Apr 2008 - 12 Apr 2008] Nice, France - going to Monaco as a day trip - 3 days
• [11 Apr 2008 - 15 Apr 2008] Riomaggiore, Italy - visiting Cinque Terre - 3 days
• [15 Apr 2008 - 21 Apr 2008] Rome, Italy - 5 days
• [21 Apr 2008 - 24 Apr 2008] Sorrento, Italy - to visit Pompeii & Capri - 2 days
• [24 Apr 2008 - 28 Apr 2008] Florence, Italy - 3 days
• [28 Apr 2008 - 01 May 2008] Venice, Italy - 2 days
• [01 May 2008 - 02 May 2008] Milan, Italy - only going here to see the last supper - 0 days
• [02 May 2008 - 06 May 2008] Geneva, Switzerland - 3 days
• [06 May 2008 - 08 May 2008] Interlaken, Switzerland - 1 day
• [08 May 2008 - 12 May 2008] Zürich, Switzerland - 3 days
• [12 May 2008 - 15 May 2008] Innsbruck, Austria - 2 days
• [15 May 2008 - 18 May 2008] Salzburg, Austria - 2 days
• [18 May 2008 - 23 May 2008] Vienna, Austria - 4 days
• [23 May 2008 - 24 May 2008] ?eský Krumlov, Czech Republic - 0 days
• [24 May 2008 - 29 May 2008] Prague, Czech Republic - 4 days
• [29 May 2008 - 01 Jun 2008] Heidelberg, Germany - 2 days
• [01 Jun 2008 - 04 Jun 2008] Brussels or Brugge, Belgium - 2 days
• [04 Jun 2008 - 09 Jun 2008] Amsterdam, Netherlands - 4 days
• [09 Jun 2008 - 13 Jun 2008] Hamburg, Germany - 3 days
• [13 Jun 2008 - 17 Jun 2008] Berlin, Germany - 3 days
|
|
|
|
Post by pointofnoreturn on Sept 3, 2007 10:36:54 GMT -5
I think the Italy portion of it looks fine - you should check back in January to see when Italy's Culture Week starts. It's one week sometimes in April or May (this year it was in May) in which all Italian state-run museums, galleries and archaeological sites are free (i.e. Pompeii, Borghese, Last Supper, Uffizi, etc). This would save you $$$$ and allow you spend it on something else  As soon as I know, I can post it on this forum  I'm not too terribly familiar with the other cities so I'll leave it up to other members to comment on. EDIT - Meant to add that your Italy portion of the trip should be re-organized, as per the other replies! |
|
|
|
Post by me on Sept 3, 2007 12:29:54 GMT -5
Hi, lagamj!
mostly, i think you've picked some great places to visit, but am confused by the order. your plan to drive is also a little questionable.
1. due to high fuel taxes, gas is really, really expensive in Europe. diesel is better, but still isn't cheap.
2. parking is also hard to find & expensive in many places.
3. depending your ages & where you live, rail passes can be reasonable. especially for two traveling together. (there's a lower priced "saver pass," for a 2nd person)
Edit: 4. many of these places love toll roads. so, you'll pay steep fuel prices as well as cash for the privilege of driving on the highways.
for order, the first places are clear. Toulouse (for Family), Barcelona, French Med area. Edit: never been, but have been told that Carcassonne is a nice place in Southwest France.
but, the order of places in Italy seems odd to me. Nice to Cinque Terre (CT) is great, but after that it starts getting wacky. you're going CT to Rome, Rome to Sorrento, Sorrento to Florence, to Venice, to Milan.
Florence isn't so far from CT, and to get from CT to Rome, you'd have to go through Florence. if you're going by rail, you'd probably even have to change trains there. (i know you're planning to drive) Edit: have also read that Lucca, a town between CT & Florence is a treasure. <NYTimes article> but, didn't see that before my trip to the area 3 years ago.
it makes much more sense to go from CT to Florence then go South from there. maybe, if you opt not to drive, even fly from Florence to Naples, which is near Sorrento, and rail North to Rome, Venice and (if you keep it) Milan.
about Switzerland: it's an expensive place. if you're on a budget, i'd suggest that you skip it. in any case, you go first to Geneva there.
my only visit to Geneva, as a teen, left me unimpressed. you've got the mountain town of Interlaken on the list, that's good. and then Zürich. Zürich is just another big city. sure, the lake is nice, and there are some historic Churches. but, those things don't change the fact that it's a big city.
personally, i found the mountains of Western Austria, Innsbruck area - also on your list, to be just as beautiful as Swiss mountains, but about half the price.
skipping ahead, from Prauge it seems odd to go to Heidelberg, etc, then back to Berlin. unless you really want to end the trip in Berlin, (dropping off the car?) i'd suggest going to Berlin from Prague, then going West to Heidelberg.
you could fly home from that area (Frankfurt or Stuttgart), or Belgium/Netherlands region.
regarding camping, i only suggest it if it's a "camping trip," hostels are often better because:
1. camping gear is bulky & not that cheap.
2. campsites are often way outside of the cities/towns you're there to see. the time & transportation costs alone are a deal breaker. hostels are often near the city center. [see above about parking problems, all the worse if you drive every day into town from the campsite. also, if you go to clubs/bars in the city, European strict laws against driving after drinking will keep you from driving back to the campsite.]
3. campsites charge hefty fees to stay there. if you're gonna pay anyway, you may as well stay in a hostel. besides, privacy at campsites is no better than hostel dorms.
- d
P.S: took a tent & sleeping bag with me when i studied in Germany. in the whole 14 months i was there i used them just two or three times! one of those times, camping at the lake near St. Gallen was a total disaster!
camping near Nice was slightly less disastrous, but helped me decide that the French took a cue from the Vikings: just as Greenland isn't very green and Iceland doesn't have much ice, the people of Nice aren't particularly nice!
|
|
|
|
Post by Eagle on Sept 4, 2007 0:40:16 GMT -5
lagamj, Welcome! I have a few comments to add to the others, as well as some questions. It looks like you've already spent some time and effort on your Itinerary, but a bit of "fine tuning" will be required. You mentioned that you have relatives in Europe - which country are they located in (I'm assuming France)? My first comment concerns your plans to travel by car. While having a car can definitely provide a lot of flexibility in terms of travel to "out of the way" locations, these can also be a nuisance in many cases. As David mentioned, you'll have to contend not only with the high cost of fuel, but also parking, toll charges and the possibility of vandalism or theft. In some cases, the parking regulations can be extremely strict, and you may find "The Boot" applied to your car when you return to it! Also, if you're not familiar with the language in each of the countries you'll be driving, you may have trouble understanding some of the signage. Driving in large cities is especially unwise (DON'T drive in Rome)!!! All of the locations you listed are easily reachable by train, so that would be my preference! It appears that your trip is about three months in length. You probably won't have to worry about the Schengen Visa limit, as some of the countries you'll be visiting aren't signatories to that. In that time frame, you should be able to visit most (if not all) of the destinations you listed. However, it would really help to have some idea on why you chose those destinations, and what sights both of you most want to see (ie: Museums, history, art galleries, party & night life or  ). A few comments on each of the destinations you listed: > Toulouse - will you be visiting family the entire 10 days, or will you have time for day trips? > Barcelona - n/c > Marseille - is there a particular reason you want to stop here? Generally speaking, one day visits are not really worthwhile. IMO this is one stop that could be eliminated. > Nice & Monaco - n/c > Riomaggiore - good choice! I was there last fall and really enjoyed it! If you have any questions on the C.T., post another note. > Rome - great to see that you alloted five days. Plan your touring carefully so that you get to as many places as possible. Check other posts here for the best method to get tickets to the Colosseum without standing in long queues, and be sure to wear a Money Belt, especially on the Metro! > Sorrento, Pompeii and Capri - you might find that two days isn't enough? > Florence - if you're planning to visit the Accademia or Uffizi, be sure to get reservations! > Venice - can be expensive, but definitely worth a visit. > Milan - as you're planning to view The Last Supper, be sure to get reservations LONG in advance! > Geneva - I have to agree with David. You might be better to allocate that time to Interlaken and the Berner Oberland. > Zurich - n/c > Innsbruck, Salzburg, Vienna - looks good. Perhaps on a future occasion you could add Hallstatt and the Salzkammergut, as it's beautiful! > Cesky Krumlov & Prague - I'm assuming you're just dong a day trip to Cesky Krumlov. You might enjoy one night, if you could spare the time on the way to Prague. > Heidelberg - is there a particular reason you want to visit here? It's quite a distance from Prague. > Brussels or Brugges - most here seem to feel that Brugges is a better destination, but certainly Brussels has some good points too. > Amsterdam - hopefully herrbert will spot this Post, but my preference would be to drop at least one day from Amsterdam. > Hamburg - again, is there a particular reason you want to stop here? This is not one of the "usual" spots for tourists. The time would probably be better spent elsewhere. > Berlin - this is a fairly "hot" destination at the moment. An extra day would probably be worthwhile. While you should be able to reach most of the cities you listed, one point that occurs to me is that no mention is made of travel times between destinations. Some of the distances are huge, so this will most certainly have to be factored in! Also, the order seems a bit "inefficient" in some cases (ie: from Prague to Heidelberg, then to Belgium and Holland, then back to Germany). I would have chosen a somewhat different order. Hopefully the others will have some further comments (WHERE is MTH - I'm sure she would have some good tips???). Good luck with your planning!
|
|
lagamj
Junior Travel Member
Posts: 2
|
Post by lagamj on Sept 4, 2007 8:20:02 GMT -5
Wow, thanks so much for all the feedback!!! It is very helpful.
pointofnoreturn, that would be wonderful if we were there during culture week. I'll have to keep track of that to see when it is.
The reason for all the destinations in Germany is that I have family in each of those cities... However we might end up not gong to Hamburg.
David & Eagle I see that going by car would not be your first choice. I guess there are far too many negatives. The main reason we were going to travel by car was for flexibility. Do the trains in Europe have fairly flexible timetables?
We are both really interested in museum, history, and the scenery/nature... that is the reason for the destinations.
In Toulouse we will have time for day trips... I will look into Carcassonne.
Barcelona. The reason for here is because I've always really wanted to go to Spain. But now that I'm thinking about it, maybe its best to leave Spain for another trip so that we can go to some better places such as Serville.
The only reason for Marseille was because the trip from Barcelona to Nice was such a long one.
I have a question about Italy... are there any nice little places to go visit on the east coast in between Sorrento & Venice?
Ya I have also heard that Geneva & Zurich aren't that exciting. I think we will stick to Interlaken.
We are getting together soon to fine tune the itinerary. I guess there are a lot of places where the order is a little funny, like Prague, Heidelberg,Belgium, Holland, &Germany again.
I appreciate everyones comments so far. It makes planning things a bit less stressful.
|
|
|
|
Post by me on Sept 4, 2007 11:14:53 GMT -5
Wow, thanks so much for all the feedback!!! It is very helpful. I appreciate everyones comments so far. It makes planning things a bit less stressful. David & Eagle I see that going by car would not be your first choice. I guess there are far too many negatives. The main reason we were going to travel by car was for flexibility. Do the trains in Europe have fairly flexible timetables? We are both really interested in museum, history, and the scenery/nature... that is the reason for the destinations. The only reason for Marseille was because the trip from Barcelona to Nice was such a long one.
Munich can fit between Innsbruck & Salzburg.
the drive from Barcelona to Nice is about 6 hours, per Google Maps. i've not been much West of Nice in France - my expierience there kept me away. but others have told me a town near Marseille called Aix is very nice (unlike Nice). |
|
|
|
Post by herrbert on Sept 4, 2007 14:46:36 GMT -5
That would be my advise precisely. Spain is so much more than just Barcelona. (I think it's pretty safe to say, that from all the cities in Spain, Barcelona is the one that is the least Spanish of them all. I think it would be wiser, to make a trip in the future, which would at least cover: Barcelona, Madrid (incl daytrips to Toledo/Segovia), Cordoba, Sevilla and Granada. (and while travelling in that part of Europe, also consider Lisbon) As David already mentioned Carcassonne, is a good option when you are in the South of France. (if you would go a bit further West, you could consider a trip to Lourdes and Tarbes). In Innsbruck it is a nice ride with the cablecar, to the top of the Hafelekar. You will have a great view over the city, and great views across the main valley (Inn-Valley), and see the really high mountains in the south. I also like the town of Imst, with is further West. Take an extra day in Salzburg, and see if the Icecaves in Werfen are opened. (maybe they open a little later, than you will be there) If they are opened it is worth a visit. Check www.eisriesenwelt.at it's a short trip of 45 minutes from Salzburg to Werfen. In Werfen you will also find the castle Hohenwerfen, that is nice to visit. Also Werfen is a bit further South than Salzburg, which also means the mountains are really mountain, where as in Salzburg, they are pretty low. If you want you go hiking, then I would suggest going to one of the smaller places of the national park Hohe Tauern. (Neukirchen/Bramberg) By car it would be fairly easy to get there in about two hours by car. By train it would be more complicated to get to the valleys. Personally I would go to Brugges, but Brussels is not that far away, so you might want to do a daytrip from Brugge. You could also consider a daytrip to Gent. (Smaller but very nice city near to Brugge). I would also stick 3 days to Amsterdam, and 4 to Berlin. The main reason is that Amsterdam is a compact city, but Berlin isn't. So you need more time to go places in Berlin. Heidelberg is not that far away from Rotherburg ob der tauber (at least if I am not mistaken), it might be worth to check on that, and make it into a daytrip, if it is possible. When traveling from Heidelberg to Brugge/Brussels it might be worth to check if you can take a train (or when you drive, take a route), that takes you to Cologne. If you take the train, you can get out here for a few hours, and see the Cathedral, which is among the biggest and most beautiful in Europe, and it is just across the square from the trainstation. |
|
|
|
Post by pointofnoreturn on Sept 8, 2007 10:47:01 GMT -5
Culture Week - dates are posted on www.beniculturali.it/ but the website is Italian. However, in January/February, they should announce the dates for 2008. You'll have to do a bit of hunting because the dates are announced randomly on travel forums (i.e. Trip Advisor, etc) but if I hear of anything, I will PM you or make a new post for you and other travellers planning a trip to Italy as well. |
|
|
|
Post by me on Sept 16, 2007 21:15:19 GMT -5
<snip> It appears that your trip is about three months in length. You probably won't have to worry about the Schengen Visa limit, as some of the countries you'll be visiting aren't signatories to that. <snip> as the trip isn't until 2008, i think Schengen applies to the whole trip. in 2008, March 20 until June 17 is exactly 90 days. (per http://www.timeanddate.com) so, lagamj can't add *any* time to this plan, and still be legal. but, i don't think a day or two over the limit would be a big deal. EDIT: per google maps, it's just 95 km from Toulouse to Carcassonne. no problem for a daytrip. Aix is less than 3 hours from Carcassonne. |
|
|
|
Post by madamtrashheap on Sept 27, 2007 20:04:35 GMT -5
I have a question about Italy... are there any nice little places to go visit on the east coast in between Sorrento & Venice? , just saw your question...and I have an answer - yes there are! You could try Ravenna and Rimini as although they are both beach towns, they also have amazing art work in cathedrals and historical sigths that are worth the journey. Another place that has an amazing museum and is the birthplace of Rafaello (Raphael) is Urbino. It's off the beaten path, but is certainly worth the journey. It's a quiet university town that sits up on the mountain in Le Marche like a large red spider and still closes down at midday for lunch (Sundays are very quiet and don't go there in August, nothing is open!). If you can work it in, you'll be well rewarded by Gallerie Nazionale delle Marche inside the Palazzo Ducale - incredible. See if they interest you as they fit in with your route, otherwise you are looking at places like Ostuni in Puglia (with the "beehive" houses) that are a little more off your route. San Marino might be worth a look too if you think you would enjoy it. |
|
|
|
Post by herrbert on Sept 28, 2007 4:57:42 GMT -5
See if they interest you as they fit in with your route, otherwise you are looking at places like Ostuni in Puglia (with the "beehive" houses) that are a little more off your route. San Marino might be worth a look too if you think you would enjoy it. Maybe it doesn't fit in, but I just want to let you now that the Cathedral of Assisi is reopening. I saw an item on the news that they have restored the ceiling, that collapsed in 1999 during an earthquake. |
|
|
|
Post by madamtrashheap on Sept 30, 2007 20:01:33 GMT -5
Good to know they've finally finished the work - although the upper Basilica was never fully closed during renovations (only in 1997 after the earthquake and while it was being stabilised), you could always see the progress and excellent restoration work that had been done, there were just a few back sections to which access was blocked.
If it fits your schedule lagamj, then definitely include Assisi.
|
|
As soon as I know, I can post it on this forum 
).
