New - My 3 Month Itinerary

[heartshapedbox]

Hi!

I’ve been reading these boards for awhile and thought it was finally time that I posted something. My boyfriend and I are planning a backpacking trip to Europe next spring for just over 3 months, from April 26th to August 6th. This is all new to us but we’ve come up with the following basic itinerary to follow:

- Fly from Vancouver to London April 26th (Arrive 27th)
- 4 full days London + 1 day for a day trip to Bath
- May 3rd, Fly/Bus/Train from London to Edinburgh
- 2 full days in Edinburgh + 3-day Isle of Skye tour w/ Haggis
- May 9th, Fly from Edinburgh to Dublin
- 2 full days in Dublin + 6-day tour of the southwest w/ Shamrocker
- May 18th, Fly from Dublin to Faro/Bus from Faro to Lagos
- 2 full days in Lagos
- May 21st, Bus from Lagos to Lisbon
- 2 full days in Lisbon
- May 24th, Fly from Lisbon to Madrid
- 2 full days in Madrid + 1 day for a trip to Toledo or Segovia
- May 28th, Bus from Madrid to Seville
- 2 full days in Seville
- May 31st, Train from Seville to Granada
- 2 full days in Granada
- June 2nd, Night train from Granada to Barcelona (Day 1 of rail pass)
- 3 full days in Barcelona
- June 5th, Night train from Barcelona to Avignon (Day 2 of rail pass)
- 2 full days in Avignon
- June 8th, Train from Avignon to Nice (Day 3 of rail pass)
- 2 full days in Nice … may take a combined day trip to Cannes and Antibes
- June 11th, Train from Nice to Lugano (Day 4 of rail pass)
- 2 full days in Lugano
- June 14th, Train from Lugano to Venice (Day 5 of rail pass)
- 2 full days in Venice … may take a day trip to Verona
- June 17th, Train from Venice to Florence (Day 6 of rail pass)
- 2 full days in Florence + 1 day for a trip to Siena
- June 21st, Train from Florence to La Spezia/Train to Cinque Terre (Day 7 of rail pass)
- 4 full days in Cinque Terre – our vacation from our vacation
- June 26th, Train from Cinque Terre to Rome (Day 8 of rail pass)
- 4 full days in Rome
- July 1st, Train from Rome to Naples (Day 9 of rail pass)/Circum. Train to Sorrento/Bus to Positano
- 2 full days in Positano … may take a day trip to Capri or Amalfi
- July 4th, Bus from Positano to Sorrento
- 2 full days in Sorrento … may take a day trip to Pompeii
- July 7th, Circum. Train from Sorrento to Naples/Fly from Naples to Munich
- 3 full days in Munich … may take day trips to Dachau and Neuschwanstein
- July 11th, Train from Munich to Salzburg w/ stopover in Innsbruck (Day 10 of rail pass)
- 2 full days in Salzburg
- July 14th, Train from Salzburg to Vienna (Day 11 of rail pass)
- 2 full days in Vienna
- July 17th, Train from Vienna to Prague
- 3 full days in Prague
- July 21st, Train from Prague to Dresden/Train from Dresden to Berlin (Day 12 of rail pass)
- 3 full days in Berlin
- July 24th, Night train from Berlin to Amsterdam (Day 13 of rail pass)
- 2 full days in Amsterdam + 1 day for a trip to Haarlem
- July 28th, Train from Amsterdam to Bruges (Day 14 of rail pass)
- 2 full days in Bruges
- July 31st, Train from Bruges to Paris (Day 15 of rail pass)
- 5 full days in Paris … may take a day trip to Versailles
- August 6th, Fly from Paris to London

Notes:
1. I think we’re going to purchase the 15 day in 2 months rail pass (referring to the days next to certain train rides), then do cheap flights and bus rides the rest of the time, as well as just purchase the train tickets for Vienna to Prague/Prague to Dresden
2. We’re not really big city people, though obviously we’re going to deal for London, Rome and Paris, but that’s the reason for less time in places such as Vienna and Berlin
3. I’m having trouble with the night train from Barcelona to Avignon. It looks like it has quite a few stops which would be super annoying, but it’s such a long trip to take during the day. Has anyone done it before?
4. I found an open-jaw ticket from Vancouver to London (Apr. 26th) and Paris to Vancouver (Aug. 6th) for $950.00 including taxes. Is this a reasonable price for an open-jaw ticket in the high season?

Okay, haha I think that’s it – thanks in advance for any advice, I’d really appreciate it. Planning is so overwhelming but I’m having a blast.

[me]

interesting plans. most of those places <well, the ones to which i've been> are winners!

i'd suggest looking into some tweaks:

for May 18, i'd suggest a change here, instead of a flight from Dublin to Faro, fly to Malaga & get ground transport to Granada.

from Granada, go West to Seville

from Seville, go West to Lagos (there's a bus company <http://www.eva-bus.com/home.php?lang=UK> that does this run. doesn't cost much. for some reason, the train doesn't cross the border here. )

from Lagos, go North to Lisbon (the bus here is cheap, too)

from Lisbon, go to Madrid (i took a night train here, it worked great! if the flight's cheaper, that might be best. per Herrbert and other sources, it's not unheard of to find that "the plane in Spain is cheaper than the train")

from Madrid to Barcelona (ditto)

never been to Avignon. when i looked just now, i saw no realistic night train connections.

when i was there, i was unimpressed with Nice. it's the kiss of death for a tourist town to be unpleasant to tourists!
[my pet theory is that these people in southern France took a cue from the Vikings: just as Greenland isn't very green and Iceland has little ice, the people of Nice aren't particularly nice! my treatment in Nice was so bad that i avoided the whole Mediterranean area for over a decade!]

question: why Lugano? Switzerland is expensive! but, i've never been to Lugano. maybe it's worth it?

the rest of the trip looks pretty good at 1st glance. there's a place i've heard good things about in Southern Bohemia called Ceský Krumlov. might be worth a stop.

[pointofnoreturn]

1. Are you flying with Zoom Airlines? $950 is a bit too high for me. I spent $720 all in for Montreal-Paris, London-Montreal but that was for departure in early May and returning in 1st week of June. July and August are prime seasons so naturally, the price would be higher than 700 bucks but still.... 950's hefty. I booked my tickets in late December just after Christmas but if you're set on the dates, I would definitely buy it now because it's ALMOST never going to go down!

Oh wait... I see you're flying out of Vancouver. That probably explains the price! I went on Zoom and plugged in your travel info, and the total comes to just over $1000 CAD so I guess you'd better get on that $950 deal!

2. Better off taking the train from London to Edinburgh. If you fly, you'll have to spend $$$ getting to the airport and pay $$$$ in taxes. If you book 2-3 months ahead of the train travel date, you save money! The same thing goes for Bath as well. I bought an one-way ticket from Gatwick to Bath Spa and only paid 8 pound all in and also bought another ticket to get back to London (Paddington) for only 9 pounds. Easy peasy and much cheaper and convenient!

[WillTravel]

Yes, much as it pains me to say, $950 is a good price for that summer ticket from Vancouver.

If you get that ticket, does that mean you will skip this part?
- August 6th, Fly from Paris to London

I definitely think you are best off getting an open-jaw ticket in this case. Personally I'd rather do Paris in April and London in August - is it possible to reverse the open-jaw ticket? Your UK stuff is better in the summer, your Italy and France stuff is better pre-summer. I don't know if that is possible, but it's definitely my climatic preference.

[madamtrashheap]

welcome, heartshapedbox!

Your choice of destinations looks great, I just have a slight modification to make in addition to the advice from the others. From Nice, travel to Lugano (it's gorgeous, btw. You could also do somewhere on Lake Como if you wanted to stay in Italy - Tremezzo, etc), then to Cinque Terra (via Genoa, La Spezia connections), then Florence, Venice, Rome and continue from there. It's only slight, but might "flow" a little better for you.

Another point is that you may find 2 days in Venice is just enough to cover time in the city without a day trip to Verona, so if you still want to put that in (and it's worth it) you may want an extra day or use it as a stop for a few hours between train journeys.

Enjoy!

[heartshapedbox]

Hi everyone! Thank you so much for the suggestions so far! I will definitely take into consideration the suggestions for changes in itinerary for the Spain and Portugal portion as well as the Italy part .. and also reversing the order.

At bahn.de it shows a night train from Barcelona to Avignon TGV but my issue is that all the connections have around 2 to 4 stops, which would be super annoying at night. We really want to visit some of Provence though, so does anyone know of any other options? Could I fly from Barcelona to Marseilles, and then take the train or something?

Our original plan was to go from Nice to Interlaken (we really wanted to go Canyoning!) but when we looked at our itinerary and the time spent getting there and then getting down to Venice, we couldn't really justify it. However, we didn't want to do another long train from Nice to Venice, so we thought we would stop in the middle. We considered Lake Como but thought that since Lugano was so close and we were already seeing so much of Italy, we'd try it instead .. I'm glad to hear that it's so gorgeous.

Oh and sorry, the last part of the itinerary was a typo, it should have said fly from Paris back to Vancouver, not to London. My boyfriend's dad flies helicopters and works all over the world so he's got tons of travel points saved up. My boyfriend flew to Australia ($2000.00 ticket) for free a few years ago, so we're going to see if we can jack some of them haha. But otherwise, I guess that the $950.00 ticket is pretty much what I can expect for wanting to fly in the summer.

[me]

heartshapedbox said:

At bahn.de it shows a night train from Barcelona to Avignon TGV but my issue is that all the connections have around 2 to 4 stops, which would be super annoying at night.

perhaps i'm just blind, but i looked on www.bahn.de and saw no realistic night train options. all listings would take two days on a flexpass, have 2 to 4 changes and take 13½ to 15½ hours.

this is a BAD idea! are you wedded to a visit in Avignon? never been there but have been told that Aix, near Marseille, is a place in Provence that might be worth a visit. [as i said before, i was badly burned by Nice - disinclined to spend valuable vacation time in Provence.]

- d

[madamtrashheap]

I saw a journey on www.voyages-sncf.com that takes 8hrs (with one change) but it's a day-time trip.

Avignon is a pretty town, but if it's causing hassles for travel, perhaps look at alternatives (a day trip from Nice/Cote d'Azur is one suggestion).

[me]

me said:

"the plane in Spain is cheaper than the train"

this little joke ws prolly too obscure. it's a play on a song from the musical My Fair Lady, regarding "The Rain In Spain Falls Mainly On The Plain."

[herrbert]

me said:

me said:

"the plane in Spain is cheaper than the train"

this little joke ws prolly too obscure. it's a play on a song from the musical My Fair Lady, regarding "The Rain In Spain Falls Mainly On The Plain."

Joke or no joke, it is the truth. Check with an airline called Vueling Airlines, for real bargains, but also companies, like Spanair, Clickair, Air Europe and even major airline Iberia, have cheap flights all over Spain, and in some cases also bargains on International flights.

I usualy have not a lot to add to what David says, but just can't work out, why he makes the Spanish leg so difficult. I would fly into Madrid (from Dublin), get a flight (Spanair of Iberia to Granada, no need to fly into Malaga), get West -> Sevilla, Lagos, Lisbon ,and then take a Vueling flight to Barcelona.

I also wonder if you are betting on the right railpass, some of the trips seems really short, so I wonder if a pass with less days, and some p-2-p tickets would be a better option. (that said: I am not the trainticket expert, but connections like Sevilla - Granada are cheap, Amsterdam - Brugge, and Vienna-Salzburg are not that far apart). Maybe somebody suggested it already, but when you have you initerary, check www.railsaver.com.

[me]

herrbert said:

but just can't work out, why he makes the Spanish leg so difficult. I would fly into Madrid (from Dublin), get a flight (Spanair of Iberia to Granada, no need to fly into Malaga), get West -> Sevilla, Lagos, Lisbon ,and then take a Vueling flight to Barcelona.

*MUCH* better idea than what i suggested! i knew there was a reason we kept you around! ;D

[madamtrashheap]

me said:

me said:

"the plane in Spain is cheaper than the train"

this little joke ws prolly too obscure. it's a play on a song from the musical My Fair Lady, regarding "The Rain In Spain Falls Mainly On The Plain."

Soz David, missed your joke...and it was a "good" one too! ;D have the flu so brain (and eyes) not functioning 100% (that's my excuse this time around!)

[heartshapedbox]

Thank you everyone for all your help ... my boyfriend and I are in the process of booking our flights and then re-working our itinerary with all of your advice. Hopefully I'll be posting an updated scenery not too long from now. Thanks again!

[patrickt]

Maybe try the EuroStar from Paris to London... it *MAY* be cheaper?? I forget... but it should open up more time for London theater vs. waiting in airport security \ customs lines etc...

The EuroStar has security and customs, but nothing to really whine about...

I'm also THRILLED that you're taking the Isle Of Skye tour with Haggis... I took it in March 06... ABSOLUTELY amazing... SO SO SO much fun...

(sorry about all the caps... I'm excited)

[heartshapedbox]

Okay, here's the new itinerary!

April 26th – Fly from Vancouver to London (Arrive April 27th)
- 5 full days in London (Day trip to Bath)
May 3rd – Train from London to Edinburgh
- 2 full days in Edinburgh plus 3 day Isle of Skye tour
May 9th – Fly from Edinburgh to Dublin
- 2 full days in Dublin plus 6 day Southern Rocker tour
May 18th – Fly from Dublin to Barcelona
- 3 full days in Barcelona
May 22nd – Fly from Barcelona to Granada
- 2 full days in Granada
May 25th – Train from Granada to Seville
- 3 full days in Seville (Day trip to Cordoba)
May 29th – Bus from Seville to Lagos
- 2 full days in Lagos
June 1st – Bus or train from Lagos to Lisbon
- 3 full days in Lisbon (Day trip to Sintra)
June 5th – Fly from Lisbon to Madrid
- 3 full days in Madrid (Day trip to Segovia or Toledo … leaning towards Segovia)
June 9th – Fly from Madrid to Marseilles/Bus from Marseilles to Aix-en-Provence
- 2 full days
June 12th – Bus or train from Aix-en-Provence to Nice
- 2 full days (Combined day trip to Cannes and Antibes)
June 15th – Train from Nice to Cinque Terre (Day one of rail pass)
- 3 full days
June 19th – Train from Cinque Terre to Venice (Day two of rail pass)
- 2 full days (May take a day trip to Verona)
June 22nd – Train from Venice to Florence (Day three of rail pass)
- 3 full days (Day trip to Siena)
June 26th – Train from Florence to Rome (Day four of rail pass)
- 4 full days
July 1st – Train from Rome to Naples (Day five of rail pass)/Train plus bus combo to Positano
- 2 full days (May take a day trip to Capri)
July 4th – Bus from Positano to Sorrento
- 2 full days (Day trip to Pompeii)
July 7th – Train from Sorrento to Naples/Fly from Naples to Munich
- 3 full days (Day trips to Dachau and Neuschwanstein)
July 11th – Train from Munich to Salzburg w/ stopover in Innsbruck (Day six of rail pass)
- 2 full days
July 14th – Train from Salzburg to Vienna (Day seven of rail pass)
- 2 full days
July 17th – Train or bus from Vienna to Prague
- 3 full days
July 21st – Train or bus from Prague to Berlin
- 3 full days
July 24th – Night train from Berlin to Amsterdam (Day eight of rail pass)
- 3 full days (Day trip to Haarlem)
July 28th – Train from Amsterdam to Bruges (Day nine of rail pass)
- 2 full days
July 31st – Train from Bruges to Paris (Day ten of rail pass)
- 5 full days (Day trip to Versailles)
August 6th – Fly from Paris to Vancouver

So there are some obvious changes to this itinerary: (1) we’ve decided to leave Switzerland out of this trip since we won’t be able to give it the time it deserves (on a future trip it’ll be a must!) so we were able to add days to our destinations. (2) I took the advice on rearranging the Spain portion of our trip and compared it with the travel information I could find online and came up with the above. It’s not exactly what was suggested but hopefully with cheap flights it should work, as well as give us an easier way to get to Provence without dealing with the train from Barcelona. (3) I also reviewed our travel plans within Europe and managed to cut it down to the 10 day in 2 months pass combined with cheap flights/buses/point-to-point tickets.

I’ve been trying to figure out the budget for our trip – does this make sense?
1. Accommodations (staying mainly in dorm rooms and always for under 25euros) = $2700.00 Canadian
2. Eating (supermarkets/eating out occasionally – 20euros a day?) = $3000.00 Canadian
3. Travel ($950.00 plane ticket, $550.00 rail pass, $1000.00 or less for planes/buses/trains/in-city transit) = $2500.00 Canadian
4. Sight-seeing = $1000.00 Canadian
5. Tours = $550.00 Canadian
6. Miscellaneous (Travel insurance, safety, shopping/fun, etc.) = $1000.00 Canadian

= Approximately $11,000.00 Canadian (each)

We want to be able to make the most of this experience because while we know that it won’t be the only time we go traveling, it is our first big trip and who knows if we’ll ever get the opportunity to go for this long ever again. So we’re willing to spend the money necessary to eat out once in awhile if we want to, splurge on wine and gelato, see the sights that we want to and do fun activities (like a biking wine tour in Tuscany), etc. Should this budget let us do that comfortably? I’m new at this so anything I overlooked is greatly appreciated. Thank you!