RUNNING OUT OF TIME

[ngarshell]

I'm actually from Australia but I have found this site full of great information. I have booked 6wks of work to travel around Europe (11th October - 23rd November 2008). Long story short, my boyfriend and i were going to be travelling with two friends who have since pulled out and who were going to do most of the planning. I now have less than 6months to plan. I will have about $15 000 for both of us saved for the trip and I would like to go the the following cities, I think in this order.
Dublin, Edinburgh, London, Paris, Madrid, Ibizia, Barcelona, Pisa, Rome, Venice, Swiss alps, Munich, Prague, Berlin, Amsterdam and then fly out of London. I would like to go to Greece but I think I will be pushing time.

My boyfriend and I were thinking about hiring a wicked camper and driving around as this would be our accommodation as well or do you think the train and hostels would be better? We thought armed with a GPS and a traveling bed might be the way to get out of lots of planning. Is 5.5wks going to be long enough. I have never travelled anywhere before so I would like to see as much as possible. I did read another thread about driving and it did seem to be expensive and time consuming. I'm just worried about having less than 6mths to book accommodation, travel etc. I have read numerous articles, tips, threads and I have purchased Europe on a shoestring but I find the more I read the more unsure I am. I think i just need some advice and opinions. Thanks

[madamtrashheap]

ngarshell, welcome to the Boards!

Less than 6 months to plan your trip is better than less than 6 days, so you'll be fine! Just a note on the time of year you're travelling - if you do decide to go with a campervan, most of the campsites that you'd likely use for accommodation will either be closed for Winter or only have a few facilities during this time. That might have a bearing on your transport/accommodation decision.

In terms of cost, you could look at www.railsaver.com and plug in your cities/time away to see what rail passes might suit and get an idea of costs. Then you'll have something to compare to the cost of driving yourselves and this will also help you make a decision.

A few other points about travel - whilst it's not hard to drive around yourself, you'll have to consider parking and transport while you're in each city, not to mention the rapidly increasing price of petrol/gas. I wouldn't recommend driving into each city as the public transport in those places you've listed is more than adequate. Depending on how long you stay in each place, you may find that transport passes for each city (when available) work well. And if you manage to find central accommodation that suits your budget (in the shoulder season - when you're travelling - this is more likely than in Summer) then you'lll be able to walk most places (eg, Rome, Prague).

$15,000 (AUD - yes?) works out to be around €9,000, which in turn works out to be about €115 per person per day (I think - languages are more my strong point than numbers! ;D). But at any rate, this is a good budget amount and as you'll be sharing a room with your boyfriend your costs will be easier to deal with. Speaking of which, look into budget hotels as well as hostels as these may give better locations and be a good option in some cities. Hostels also offer double rooms (in many cases) rather than a shared room.

You may also use flights as well as air travel if you choose to not self-drive, and as you would have noticed on this site there are routes and carriers to choose from to fit into your trip.

A few points about your destinations:

• Greece after late September isn't worth going unless you're just doing Athens and the mainland. The islands close down for the Winter and don't open up again until May.
  
• Ibiza - ditto as Greece, although there is a little more life there in Autumn/Winter, it just won't be the "happening" island it is during the Summer months.
  
• Consider starting up north and ending in the "warmer" places in the south of Europe (Spain, Italy).

How many days were you thinking of spending in each place listed? Once you have that listed, we can also suggest some day trips and side trips between destinations if these fit your itinerary and timeframe.

[ngarshell]

Thank you very much for your advice. After I had posted this I had a look at Ibiza and saw that it practically shuts down at the end of September. I didn't know that about Greece but it now makes my decision to cut Greece out easier.

I haven't decided how much time in each place yet. I used the Planning Worksheet and originally I had 12 cities but I noticed in my post I have 15. With the 12 cities I think that worked out to be around 2.5-3 days in each. As per my original post I can still cut it back to 12 by cutting out Madrid, Ibizia and Munich. I haven't sussed out yet how long it takes to get to each city etc.

I guess with such a short amount of time and so many countries I am only going to be able to taste test each. I know there is so much more to each country than the basic touristy stuff but I think that is all I am going to have time for.

Italy is the country I can see myself spending alot of time in. There is so much to see and so many great cities. I could still cut out Germany and Czech Republic all together but I thought it would be great to pass through.

I feel like I am a little more on track. I think I will go with the backpacking option oppossed to driving. The other thing with driving is if we decide to have a few drinks we won't be able to drive. Flying might also be an option like from France to Spain and maybe even Spain to Italy. I will keep on planning.......

[madamtrashheap]

ngarshell, I think you're on the right track with train and air travel rather than self-drive. Drive yourselves next time you go back! ;D

It would be a shame for you to cut out Germany and the Czech Republic as they would flow quite well in your itinerary, but it's a time things so that will have a bearing on things.

Based on your original list, can I suggest something like this for number of full days and transport:

London - 4-5 full days
train to Edinburgh - 3 (depending on day trips and other areas to visit)
fly to Dublin (Aer Lingus, try to avoid Ryanair due to luggage restrictions) - 3
fly to Amsterdam (check Aer Lingus) - 2
fly to Berlin (check Transavia)- 3-4
train to Prague (with lunch stop in Dresden) - 3
train to Munich - 3 (includes time for day trip to castles, etc)
train to Swiss Alps - suggest Lauterbrunnen, Gimmelwald or stay in Luzern and day trip up a mountain (Pilatus, Stanserhorn, Engelberg/Titlis) - 3
train to Venice - 2
NOTE: Pisa is close to Florence but this is not on your list - I wouldn't schedule a side trip to Pisa just for the Tower, rather leave it out this time around or add Florence (for 3-4 days) to make that part of the journey worthwhile, then continue to Rome.
train to Rome - 4-5
fly Barcelona (check Iberia) - 3
fly or train to Madrid - 3-4
fly to Paris (check EasyJet, Iberia or even Air France for CDG or Orly, not Beauvais) - 4-5
Eurostar to London if you can't do an open-jaw flight from Australia to London then Paris back to Australia

This is by no means a definitive itinerary, but it might help with slotting in your own plans and tweaking things to sort your schedule to suit your "must-sees" and transport. The number of days listed are the usual "recommended" minimum stay in each place. Of course, if you do decide to spend more time in Italy (never a bad thing!) then other destinations will have to be kept for the next trip.

Happy continuing planning!

[ngarshell]

I appreciate both of your thoughts. It has made it so much easier. There is this website which I have posted link securetravel.webjet.com.au/PlanIt/ where you can put in dates, times and even a budget. I ran with madamtrashheaps suggestion and I run out of time but its great having some idea. David I agree with you about London. We were going to give GB a miss as it is expensive but I'm not sure if we will be able to make it back any time soon hence the reason for cramming.

So I've got my destinations and my time frames, I've also jotted down a few notes on what I want to see in each country, so I pretty much just have to fill in the gaps. Thanks again for your help.

[madamtrashheap]

Apr 29, 2008 2:05:31 GMT -5 ngarshell said:

I ran with madamtrashheaps suggestion and I run out of time

Oops, I didn't count the days up, just gave suggestions. But at least you're getting somewhere now with the planning. Don't worry, it will all make sense eventually - it's just getting to that point that can be frustrating sometimes! Let us know when you've reached the next stage.

[ngarshell]

One more question please. Is this going to be an o.k time to travel. I have a terrible feeling that every city is going to be a ghost town. I'm glad that the crowds arent' going to be so big but I'm a little disappointed that lots of things may be closed. Am I missing out by not travelling earlier? Also it would be nice to bump into other travellers and not feel completely alone. I can't find many posts on people travelling in October/November. I feel like this is the worst time to travel.

[madamtrashheap]

I'm a fan of Autumn/Fall so travelling at that time of year in Europe is a bonus as the days are crisp, the nights are cool and the colours are just gorgeous. But, you can come across some full-on storms at that time of year, particularly on the Mediterranean, so don't plan on any cruises or beach trips . There are still plenty of people around so there won't be any "ghost town" situations - lots of festivals/fairs/celebrations take place to say goodbye to Summer and hello to Winter and although there are less tourists around (still enough to make queues at the Vatican and a few other places though) it won't be a case of no-one in the streets as locals take advantage of this time of year to get out and stroll as well.

IMHO the worst time to travel in Europe is August - but that's just me, others love it. As long as you don't mind having to wear a jacket in the evenings (and keep one handy for the cool mornings) you'll love travelling at this time of year!

[ngarshell]

I think I was having a bad day yesterday, little miss negative come out of the closet but I've locked her back in there. I might see if i can bring back the trip a month, but if not I will be happy and make the best of what I have. How could I not be happy, I'm going to Europe!

[herrbert]

Late October and November can have some cold and wet days. If you want to increase the chance of better weather, plan some more days in the South of Spain, Portugal and Italy. I am not saying that you shouldn't visit places like Dublin, A'dam, Edinburgh, there will be enough to see even if it is raining.

The positive thing about travelling off-season, is that the towns are much more the way they should be. In July/August, you will find that the people who live in a city, are on holiday themselves, and the town is runover by tourists, which is some cases chance the atmosphere in a negative way.

I would opt for a combination of trains and flights to get you to places. If you have no desire in seeing the south of France, for sure get yourself a plane between Spain and Italy. (look at Vueling/Clickair), if you visit Paris and want to get to Madrid also check on a flight, but skip Ryanair, as there Paris flights, leave from the Beauvais airport, which in fact is nowhere near Paris.

I also have to agree with David on his remark. The Austrian Alps are just as beautiful, but Austria is way cheaper. The only thing is that in the Alps, you will be between the two main seasons. The summer season (hiking-season), will be over, and the winterseason will not have arrived yet. So there will not be a lot to do.